Anonymous
12/20/2022 11:01
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here’s something that I have not seen discussed.
The exsistance of AAP worked really well at our ES many years ago. There was one AAP class and it was HUGE. 36 kids if I recall correctly. It was taught by one amazing and incredible teacher. This one huge class allowed the other two classes to be much smaller (20ish students iirc).
Why not allow AAP classes to become very large? If the children are better able to learn, they should be able to learn in a larger format.
Heck, why not make some of these AP classes at the HS level large, lecture style classes? I took intro psychology in an auditorium of 250 kids. Why not give the high schools much larger classes for AP and use the saved money to make smaller ES classes?
We need to completely rethink education. What we are doing is not sustainable and Fairfax Tax Payers are not inclined to give FCPS any more $$$
As an AAP teacher who has 26 kids, this would just make teaching harder. I had 22 last year and the four kids adds up with grading, conferences, etc. Not to mention the year I had 31 kids, no one could move in my room because my room was not meant to hold that many kids and desks. AAP kids are just kids. They are not geniuses. They need extra help sometimes too.
AAP kids are much much more likely to be able to learn in a large classroom.
This is already happening at our center. AAP classes are huge (28), GE are small (19/20). Advanced or not, we’re talking about 8-12 yr olds KIDS, many of whom also have social deficits, which create other challenges in the classroom. Cramming more AAP kids into a class is not the answer.
I have 2 kids in AAP and it just depends on the year and grade. My oldest always had smaller AAP classes (20 kids). The gen Ed classes were larger in his year while the AAP classes were smaller. My younger son is also in AAP and his year is the flip. The AAP classes were always over 25 kids while the gen Ed classes were smaller.
I now have a kindergarten child and there are 21 kids in her class. I know the first grade classes have 26-27 kids. These are just normal classes since there are no aap classes in kindergarten and 1st grade.
My kids have told me that the AAP classes have better behaved kids. There is also an obvious Asian presence. AAP classes have always been 50%+ Asian. Our school is 20% Asian. In my younger child’s AAP class, it is more like 90% Asian with only 3 white kids and no black or Hispanic kids.
Anonymous
12/20/2022 10:31
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Here’s something that I have not seen discussed.
The exsistance of AAP worked really well at our ES many years ago. There was one AAP class and it was HUGE. 36 kids if I recall correctly. It was taught by one amazing and incredible teacher. This one huge class allowed the other two classes to be much smaller (20ish students iirc).
Why not allow AAP classes to become very large? If the children are better able to learn, they should be able to learn in a larger format.
Heck, why not make some of these AP classes at the HS level large, lecture style classes? I took intro psychology in an auditorium of 250 kids. Why not give the high schools much larger classes for AP and use the saved money to make smaller ES classes?
We need to completely rethink education. What we are doing is not sustainable and Fairfax Tax Payers are not inclined to give FCPS any more $$$
This is already happening and it sucks. AAP classes at my school are 28-30 kids. They are not all well behaved just because they are smart. And they are expected to basically teach themselves, which is a disservice: these are still kids, they still thrive on teacher attention and it is not developmentally appropriate to learn from self study. The class moves fast but IMO the grasp of concepts is shallow.
Anonymous
12/20/2022 10:20
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here’s something that I have not seen discussed.
The exsistance of AAP worked really well at our ES many years ago. There was one AAP class and it was HUGE. 36 kids if I recall correctly. It was taught by one amazing and incredible teacher. This one huge class allowed the other two classes to be much smaller (20ish students iirc).
Why not allow AAP classes to become very large? If the children are better able to learn, they should be able to learn in a larger format.
Heck, why not make some of these AP classes at the HS level large, lecture style classes? I took intro psychology in an auditorium of 250 kids. Why not give the high schools much larger classes for AP and use the saved money to make smaller ES classes?
We need to completely rethink education. What we are doing is not sustainable and Fairfax Tax Payers are not inclined to give FCPS any more $$$
As an AAP teacher who has 26 kids, this would just make teaching harder. I had 22 last year and the four kids adds up with grading, conferences, etc. Not to mention the year I had 31 kids, no one could move in my room because my room was not meant to hold that many kids and desks. AAP kids are just kids. They are not geniuses. They need extra help sometimes too.
AAP kids are much much more likely to be able to learn in a large classroom.
This is already happening at our center. AAP classes are huge (28), GE are small (19/20). Advanced or not, we’re talking about 8-12 yr olds KIDS, many of whom also have social deficits, which create other challenges in the classroom. Cramming more AAP kids into a class is not the answer.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 19:02
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here’s something that I have not seen discussed.
The exsistance of AAP worked really well at our ES many years ago. There was one AAP class and it was HUGE. 36 kids if I recall correctly. It was taught by one amazing and incredible teacher. This one huge class allowed the other two classes to be much smaller (20ish students iirc).
Why not allow AAP classes to become very large? If the children are better able to learn, they should be able to learn in a larger format.
Heck, why not make some of these AP classes at the HS level large, lecture style classes? I took intro psychology in an auditorium of 250 kids. Why not give the high schools much larger classes for AP and use the saved money to make smaller ES classes?
We need to completely rethink education. What we are doing is not sustainable and Fairfax Tax Payers are not inclined to give FCPS any more $$$
As an AAP teacher who has 26 kids, this would just make teaching harder. I had 22 last year and the four kids adds up with grading, conferences, etc. Not to mention the year I had 31 kids, no one could move in my room because my room was not meant to hold that many kids and desks. AAP kids are just kids. They are not geniuses. They need extra help sometimes too.
AAP kids are much much more likely to be able to learn in a large classroom.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 17:53
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Here’s something that I have not seen discussed.
The exsistance of AAP worked really well at our ES many years ago. There was one AAP class and it was HUGE. 36 kids if I recall correctly. It was taught by one amazing and incredible teacher. This one huge class allowed the other two classes to be much smaller (20ish students iirc).
Why not allow AAP classes to become very large? If the children are better able to learn, they should be able to learn in a larger format.
Heck, why not make some of these AP classes at the HS level large, lecture style classes? I took intro psychology in an auditorium of 250 kids. Why not give the high schools much larger classes for AP and use the saved money to make smaller ES classes?
We need to completely rethink education. What we are doing is not sustainable and Fairfax Tax Payers are not inclined to give FCPS any more $$$
As an AAP teacher who has 26 kids, this would just make teaching harder. I had 22 last year and the four kids adds up with grading, conferences, etc. Not to mention the year I had 31 kids, no one could move in my room because my room was not meant to hold that many kids and desks. AAP kids are just kids. They are not geniuses. They need extra help sometimes too.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 17:21
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The program is not the problem. What they do with the middle level kids is the issue. They are not being well served by pretending that teaching them on the same level as the slowest learners works. The way to improve thing is not to tear down a program working well for many kids but rather to fix the parts of the system NOT working well. Gen Ed is what is NOT working for many MC kids.
Crappy gen Ed is the natural result of pulling out the top 20% of students out of the program.
Yes, if they'd stop segregating kids and offer opportunities at all schools none of this would be necessary.
No. That’s just not correct. At least not at all schools. Like many on this board, my now AAP kids were in the highest reading group. That meant they virtually never met with the teacher. Eliminating AAP would just prolong the experience of K-2 of the faster kids being left far too much to their own devices while the teacher works with the slower kids. We need to move back toward grouping kids for instruction at the whole class level (review quarterly maybe so kids do not get stuck) vs this fairy tale fantasy they can teach all levels in a room of 20-30 kids.
Grouping kids by quarter is a grading and management nightmare. In order for mixed abilities to work…
Classes should be capped at 20 kids.
ESOL/SPED support needs to be higher.
That is really the larger issue. Too many kids with different needs and all of it falling on the classroom teacher.
ESOL/SPED does need more support. At our school this eats up 80% of the teacher time so kids doing well basically are ignored.
Welp, more are coming.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 16:08
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Here’s something that I have not seen discussed.
The exsistance of AAP worked really well at our ES many years ago. There was one AAP class and it was HUGE. 36 kids if I recall correctly. It was taught by one amazing and incredible teacher. This one huge class allowed the other two classes to be much smaller (20ish students iirc).
Why not allow AAP classes to become very large? If the children are better able to learn, they should be able to learn in a larger format.
Heck, why not make some of these AP classes at the HS level large, lecture style classes? I took intro psychology in an auditorium of 250 kids. Why not give the high schools much larger classes for AP and use the saved money to make smaller ES classes?
We need to completely rethink education. What we are doing is not sustainable and Fairfax Tax Payers are not inclined to give FCPS any more $$$
The exsistance of AAP worked really well at our ES many years ago. There was one AAP class and it was HUGE. 36 kids if I recall correctly. It was taught by one amazing and incredible teacher. This one huge class allowed the other two classes to be much smaller (20ish students iirc).
Why not allow AAP classes to become very large? If the children are better able to learn, they should be able to learn in a larger format.
Heck, why not make some of these AP classes at the HS level large, lecture style classes? I took intro psychology in an auditorium of 250 kids. Why not give the high schools much larger classes for AP and use the saved money to make smaller ES classes?
We need to completely rethink education. What we are doing is not sustainable and Fairfax Tax Payers are not inclined to give FCPS any more $$$
Anonymous
12/19/2022 15:57
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The program is not the problem. What they do with the middle level kids is the issue. They are not being well served by pretending that teaching them on the same level as the slowest learners works. The way to improve thing is not to tear down a program working well for many kids but rather to fix the parts of the system NOT working well. Gen Ed is what is NOT working for many MC kids.
Crappy gen Ed is the natural result of pulling out the top 20% of students out of the program.
Yes, if they'd stop segregating kids and offer opportunities at all schools none of this would be necessary.
No. That’s just not correct. At least not at all schools. Like many on this board, my now AAP kids were in the highest reading group. That meant they virtually never met with the teacher. Eliminating AAP would just prolong the experience of K-2 of the faster kids being left far too much to their own devices while the teacher works with the slower kids. We need to move back toward grouping kids for instruction at the whole class level (review quarterly maybe so kids do not get stuck) vs this fairy tale fantasy they can teach all levels in a room of 20-30 kids.
Grouping kids by quarter is a grading and management nightmare. In order for mixed abilities to work…
Classes should be capped at 20 kids.
ESOL/SPED support needs to be higher.
That is really the larger issue. Too many kids with different needs and all of it falling on the classroom teacher.
ESOL/SPED does need more support. At our school this eats up 80% of the teacher time so kids doing well basically are ignored.
I teach 6th and I am amazed that in middle school Level 1 and 2 have dedicated ESOL classes for all subjects. Levels 3 and 4 often have team taught. I personally think the county should be putting more effort in ES for ESOL.
the only explanation for why ESOL is handled the way it is in ES is because the school doesn't want people screaming that they are segregating kids. It is crazy and the current method does not work.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 15:48
Subject: Re:Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Definite changes have been made(at least in our center school) there are less kids getting into AAP, the "projects" all the same in GE and AAP. Social Studies and Science is All AAP for 3-6th. Language ARTS and Math incorporate the AAP curriculum into the GE classes. Math is the one subject that is truly advanced , but several GE kids take the advance math as well.
I'm not sure if more are coming but it does seem like they a very slowly making AAP available to all. The middle school is all honors and the classes are the same except kids are still separated into AAP/GE "classrooms" for CORE subjects.
I'm not sure if more are coming but it does seem like they a very slowly making AAP available to all. The middle school is all honors and the classes are the same except kids are still separated into AAP/GE "classrooms" for CORE subjects.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 09:27
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The program is not the problem. What they do with the middle level kids is the issue. They are not being well served by pretending that teaching them on the same level as the slowest learners works. The way to improve thing is not to tear down a program working well for many kids but rather to fix the parts of the system NOT working well. Gen Ed is what is NOT working for many MC kids.
Crappy gen Ed is the natural result of pulling out the top 20% of students out of the program.
Yes, if they'd stop segregating kids and offer opportunities at all schools none of this would be necessary.
No. That’s just not correct. At least not at all schools. Like many on this board, my now AAP kids were in the highest reading group. That meant they virtually never met with the teacher. Eliminating AAP would just prolong the experience of K-2 of the faster kids being left far too much to their own devices while the teacher works with the slower kids. We need to move back toward grouping kids for instruction at the whole class level (review quarterly maybe so kids do not get stuck) vs this fairy tale fantasy they can teach all levels in a room of 20-30 kids.
Grouping kids by quarter is a grading and management nightmare. In order for mixed abilities to work…
Classes should be capped at 20 kids.
ESOL/SPED support needs to be higher.
That is really the larger issue. Too many kids with different needs and all of it falling on the classroom teacher.
ESOL/SPED does need more support. At our school this eats up 80% of the teacher time so kids doing well basically are ignored.
I teach 6th and I am amazed that in middle school Level 1 and 2 have dedicated ESOL classes for all subjects. Levels 3 and 4 often have team taught. I personally think the county should be putting more effort in ES for ESOL.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 08:26
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The program is not the problem. What they do with the middle level kids is the issue. They are not being well served by pretending that teaching them on the same level as the slowest learners works. The way to improve thing is not to tear down a program working well for many kids but rather to fix the parts of the system NOT working well. Gen Ed is what is NOT working for many MC kids.
Crappy gen Ed is the natural result of pulling out the top 20% of students out of the program.
Yes, if they'd stop segregating kids and offer opportunities at all schools none of this would be necessary.
No. That’s just not correct. At least not at all schools. Like many on this board, my now AAP kids were in the highest reading group. That meant they virtually never met with the teacher. Eliminating AAP would just prolong the experience of K-2 of the faster kids being left far too much to their own devices while the teacher works with the slower kids. We need to move back toward grouping kids for instruction at the whole class level (review quarterly maybe so kids do not get stuck) vs this fairy tale fantasy they can teach all levels in a room of 20-30 kids.
Grouping kids by quarter is a grading and management nightmare. In order for mixed abilities to work…
Classes should be capped at 20 kids.
ESOL/SPED support needs to be higher.
That is really the larger issue. Too many kids with different needs and all of it falling on the classroom teacher.
ESOL/SPED does need more support. At our school this eats up 80% of the teacher time so kids doing well basically are ignored.
Anonymous
12/19/2022 06:55
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The program is not the problem. What they do with the middle level kids is the issue. They are not being well served by pretending that teaching them on the same level as the slowest learners works. The way to improve thing is not to tear down a program working well for many kids but rather to fix the parts of the system NOT working well. Gen Ed is what is NOT working for many MC kids.
Crappy gen Ed is the natural result of pulling out the top 20% of students out of the program.
Yes, if they'd stop segregating kids and offer opportunities at all schools none of this would be necessary.
No. That’s just not correct. At least not at all schools. Like many on this board, my now AAP kids were in the highest reading group. That meant they virtually never met with the teacher. Eliminating AAP would just prolong the experience of K-2 of the faster kids being left far too much to their own devices while the teacher works with the slower kids. We need to move back toward grouping kids for instruction at the whole class level (review quarterly maybe so kids do not get stuck) vs this fairy tale fantasy they can teach all levels in a room of 20-30 kids.
Grouping kids by quarter is a grading and management nightmare. In order for mixed abilities to work…
Classes should be capped at 20 kids.
ESOL/SPED support needs to be higher.
That is really the larger issue. Too many kids with different needs and all of it falling on the classroom teacher.
Anonymous
12/18/2022 23:22
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The program is not the problem. What they do with the middle level kids is the issue. They are not being well served by pretending that teaching them on the same level as the slowest learners works. The way to improve thing is not to tear down a program working well for many kids but rather to fix the parts of the system NOT working well. Gen Ed is what is NOT working for many MC kids.
Crappy gen Ed is the natural result of pulling out the top 20% of students out of the program.
Yes, if they'd stop segregating kids and offer opportunities at all schools none of this would be necessary.
No. That’s just not correct. At least not at all schools. Like many on this board, my now AAP kids were in the highest reading group. That meant they virtually never met with the teacher. Eliminating AAP would just prolong the experience of K-2 of the faster kids being left far too much to their own devices while the teacher works with the slower kids. We need to move back toward grouping kids for instruction at the whole class level (review quarterly maybe so kids do not get stuck) vs this fairy tale fantasy they can teach all levels in a room of 20-30 kids.
Anonymous
12/18/2022 16:16
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The program is not the problem. What they do with the middle level kids is the issue. They are not being well served by pretending that teaching them on the same level as the slowest learners works. The way to improve thing is not to tear down a program working well for many kids but rather to fix the parts of the system NOT working well. Gen Ed is what is NOT working for many MC kids.
Why yes, let’s just separate out all the poor children. Make them all sit in a separate class. We could even put them in separate schools. They’re holding back those smart middle class kids from getting into honors classes and UVa and Harvard.
Watch out. Your thinly veiled racism might tarnish the image of yourself as a progressive.
I don't understand this take. Why would you not want a class targeted to your kids ability? How are less prepared kids served by being surrounded with kids who already mastered something and are bored? If the problem is that the slower track classes don't get attention and resources, then let's fix that part.
I don't like AAP centers or AAP as it exists today, but I do like leveling. Kids should move between levels as needed, not be on a track. For example, not everybody who is advanced in math is also advanced in writing: decouple those. More advanced classes should go deeper not faster - none of this race to get to algebra asap.
Because it’s not appropriate at the elementary level. The research doesn’t support it. There’s differentiation happening within the classroom. And also, I just don’t buy this argument that kids are “bored to death.” For every single kid, there will be times when school isn’t exciting or fun. That doesn’t mean that they’re incorrectly placed in a class or not being challenged appropriately.
-ES teacher in FCPS for over 15 years
No, there is not meaningful differentiation. My kid was in the highest reading group, so she just never met with the teacher who was busy with the other kids. My kid finished her work early so she cleaned the classroom or helped other kids - and before you say that's a nice activity, it was really bad for her peer relationships to be a mini teacher. The kids all know who is in what reading/math group or who always has the answers, so you are not preventing that kind of stratification and stereotyping.
Anonymous
12/18/2022 11:39
Subject: Is FCPS getting rid of AAP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The program is not the problem. What they do with the middle level kids is the issue. They are not being well served by pretending that teaching them on the same level as the slowest learners works. The way to improve thing is not to tear down a program working well for many kids but rather to fix the parts of the system NOT working well. Gen Ed is what is NOT working for many MC kids.
Why yes, let’s just separate out all the poor children. Make them all sit in a separate class. We could even put them in separate schools. They’re holding back those smart middle class kids from getting into honors classes and UVa and Harvard.
Watch out. Your thinly veiled racism might tarnish the image of yourself as a progressive.
I don't understand this take. Why would you not want a class targeted to your kids ability? How are less prepared kids served by being surrounded with kids who already mastered something and are bored? If the problem is that the slower track classes don't get attention and resources, then let's fix that part.
I don't like AAP centers or AAP as it exists today, but I do like leveling. Kids should move between levels as needed, not be on a track. For example, not everybody who is advanced in math is also advanced in writing: decouple those. More advanced classes should go deeper not faster - none of this race to get to algebra asap.
Because it’s not appropriate at the elementary level. The research doesn’t support it. There’s differentiation happening within the classroom. And also, I just don’t buy this argument that kids are “bored to death.” For every single kid, there will be times when school isn’t exciting or fun. That doesn’t mean that they’re incorrectly placed in a class or not being challenged appropriately.
-ES teacher in FCPS for over 15 years
Another ES teacher here. The problem is ES do not have the class sizes or support to differentiate well. My second year teaching I had kids reading on a Kindergarten level through an 8th grade level in a 6th grade class. It is incredibly difficult for one person to differentiate all of those levels with 28 kids. The gap is not as noticeable in K-2. But once kids hit 3rd, it is really impossible without more support.