Anonymous wrote:There is no scheduled curriculum night for 10-12 grade at our HS. Here is a starting list of HS that I’ve heard from friends that have eliminated the Pre Calc Trig Honors course: Madison, McLean, Langley, West Potomac , I’m guessing there are more and Every High school has added AP Pre Calc but some are still are offering Pre Calc Trig Honors next year.

You don't have to just hear it from friends. The course catalog tells you which school offers each class.

https://insys.fcps.edu/CourseCatOnline/reportPanel/520/10/0/0/0/1;title=reportPanelSideNav

There is no scheduled curriculum night for 10-12 grade at our HS. Here is a starting list of HS that I’ve heard from friends that have eliminated the Pre Calc Trig Honors course: Madison, McLean, Langley, West Potomac , I’m guessing there are more and Every High school has added AP Pre Calc but some are still are offering Pre Calc Trig Honors next year.

1. I'm sure more details/explanation will come out during curriculum night.

2. Yes, I agree the some of the PP re: the value of an AP "credit" for a Precalc math class for kids who are ultimately going on to AP Calc BC. I will be listening to the teachers for more info on this. Why burn one of the six pre-paid AP fees for an exam that will have no college value for my student who will ultimately need Calc I, II and III for his degree? The only value I see is that a good score on the AP Precalc exam as a junior will be some indication to colleges that he will do well in the Calc BC class he will be taking senior year (when the colleges are making their decisions). But, does the exam score (if a 4 or 5) really tell Admissions Officers any more than the course grade? I kind of doubt it b/c the AP exam covers less than the course (i.e. with only Alg II hons kids taking AP PreCalc, they are likely teaching all four units, but only three units are tested by College Board). So, the course grade arguably includes more info about an applicant's math ability than the AP exam.

For me, the question is when should someone in AP Precalc take the exam or decline the exam.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Little dribs and drabs of info trickling out.

At Madison, where there is NO Trig/Precalc Hons next year, the kids who take Alg II reg. will go to Trig/Precalc (reg) (or Prob/Stat, or Trig/Discrete).

The kids who took Alg II HON will go to AP Precalc.

Alg II Hons is a PREREQUISITE for AP Precalc.



In order to take AP Calc BC, you have to have taken AP Calc AB or AP Precalc.

Very helpful detail, thanks. But this outcome is suboptimal. AP Precalculus will be populated with Precalc/Trig honors students who don't need an AP Precalculus credit but do need BC Calculus preparation. Unfortunately, next year these kids will get the opposite - they will gain an AP Precalculus credit that won't be recognized for course credit at selective colleges and they won't receive early BC preparation which could well undermine their performance on the AP BC exam, which is the AP math exam that actually matters to these kids. Square peg in a round hole.

You guys are starting to lose me. My kid is projected to take only Calc AB, either the AP version as a high school senior, or in college. She's currently in Algebra 2 Honors. It looks like her school is offering PreCalcTrig Honors and nonhonors, as well as AP PrCalc next year. Given she likely won't do CALC BC, it sounds like she should take the PreCalcTrig and not the AP PreCalc?

In the FCPS course catalog, the prerequisites for AB Calculus are either Precalc/Trig, Precalc/Trig honors, or AP Precalc. All of them qualify a kid for Calc AB. Teachers will recommend the best option.

The issue with the Madison approach next year is that it would appear to disadvantage kids who want to take BC Calculus relative to current practice.

Sorry, PP again. The other issue with Madison's approach is that Precalc/Trig students don't get to take AP Precalc which is too bad as they are the ones who could most use an AP Precalculus credit. Under Madison's approach, their trajectory remains the same. The creators of AP Precalculus were trying to offer something new to these kids; since kids bound for calculus in high school already had an AP AB or BC calculus exam, AP Precalculus creators were trying to offer kids taking 9th grade Algebra 1 kids an AP math opportunity too. FCPS had a choice as to whether to target AP Precalc to regular Precalc/Trig kids or honors Precalc/Trig kids. It is surprising that they chose the latter. It's a lost opportunity for Precalc/Trig kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Little dribs and drabs of info trickling out.

At Madison, where there is NO Trig/Precalc Hons next year, the kids who take Alg II reg. will go to Trig/Precalc (reg) (or Prob/Stat, or Trig/Discrete).

The kids who took Alg II HON will go to AP Precalc.

Alg II Hons is a PREREQUISITE for AP Precalc.



In order to take AP Calc BC, you have to have taken AP Calc AB or AP Precalc.

Very helpful detail, thanks. But this outcome is suboptimal. AP Precalculus will be populated with Precalc/Trig honors students who don't need an AP Precalculus credit but do need BC Calculus preparation. Unfortunately, next year these kids will get the opposite - they will gain an AP Precalculus credit that won't be recognized for course credit at selective colleges and they won't receive early BC preparation which could well undermine their performance on the AP BC exam, which is the AP math exam that actually matters to these kids. Square peg in a round hole.

You guys are starting to lose me. My kid is projected to take only Calc AB, either the AP version as a high school senior, or in college. She's currently in Algebra 2 Honors. It looks like her school is offering PreCalcTrig Honors and nonhonors, as well as AP PrCalc next year. Given she likely won't do CALC BC, it sounds like she should take the PreCalcTrig and not the AP PreCalc?

In the FCPS course catalog, the prerequisites for AB Calculus are either Precalc/Trig, Precalc/Trig honors, or AP Precalc. All of them qualify a kid for Calc AB. Teachers will recommend the best option.

The issue with the Madison approach next year is that it would appear to disadvantage kids who want to take BC Calculus relative to current practice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Little dribs and drabs of info trickling out.

At Madison, where there is NO Trig/Precalc Hons next year, the kids who take Alg II reg. will go to Trig/Precalc (reg) (or Prob/Stat, or Trig/Discrete).

The kids who took Alg II HON will go to AP Precalc.

Alg II Hons is a PREREQUISITE for AP Precalc.



In order to take AP Calc BC, you have to have taken AP Calc AB or AP Precalc.

Very helpful detail, thanks. But this outcome is suboptimal. AP Precalculus will be populated with Precalc/Trig honors students who don't need an AP Precalculus credit but do need BC Calculus preparation. Unfortunately, next year these kids will get the opposite - they will gain an AP Precalculus credit that won't be recognized for course credit at selective colleges and they won't receive early BC preparation which could well undermine their performance on the AP BC exam, which is the AP math exam that actually matters to these kids. Square peg in a round hole.

You guys are starting to lose me. My kid is projected to take only Calc AB, either the AP version as a high school senior, or in college. She's currently in Algebra 2 Honors. It looks like her school is offering PreCalcTrig Honors and nonhonors, as well as AP PrCalc next year. Given she likely won't do CALC BC, it sounds like she should take the PreCalcTrig and not the AP PreCalc?

Anonymous wrote:Little dribs and drabs of info trickling out.

At Madison, where there is NO Trig/Precalc Hons next year, the kids who take Alg II reg. will go to Trig/Precalc (reg) (or Prob/Stat, or Trig/Discrete).

The kids who took Alg II HON will go to AP Precalc.

Alg II Hons is a PREREQUISITE for AP Precalc.



In order to take AP Calc BC, you have to have taken AP Calc AB or AP Precalc.

Very helpful detail, thanks. But this outcome is suboptimal. AP Precalculus will be populated with Precalc/Trig honors students who don't need an AP Precalculus credit but do need BC Calculus preparation. Unfortunately, next year these kids will get the opposite - they will gain an AP Precalculus credit that won't be recognized for course credit at selective colleges and they won't receive early BC preparation which could well undermine their performance on the AP BC exam, which is the AP math exam that actually matters to these kids. Square peg in a round hole.

Anonymous wrote:I was the first to notice this change and post it on this thread. Before everyone gets all spun up about how this isn't hoing to work...let's see and hear what the math teachers ar your school have to say. It may be structured differently at different schools (as a test pilot) or even done differently within a school (i.e. some AP precalc sections do all four units and are taught the same as trig/precalc honors, and some sections only do three units and are essentially trig/precalc regular). Right now none of us have the facts as they apply to our own kids. Patience. Learn with an open mind. Teachers usually make good recommendations for follow on classes based on what they know about your kid. DCUM experts don't know your kid or how your HS math dept is teaching any class.

When a big change is proposed, they should offer the rationale for why they are making the move and information about how they plan to implement it. The information vacuum is a problem. Kids have to pick their courses soon and no one has any details. This seems like something that should have been piloted at a few schools before launching district-wide.

One of your options raises its own question. If a school makes a separate AP Precalculus section that covers four units and is taught the same as trig/precalc honors (by which I'm assuming you mean a more traditional style, not one centered on inquiry learning with real world applications), this is effectively trig/precalc honors minus the BC preparation, so why make any change for these kids? The kids in these sections will likely go on to high school calculus and don't need an AP Precalculus credit. Let them continue in trig/precalc honors and receive BC preparation, while opening up AP Precalculus to a broader audience as AP designers intended. It's these gaps in logic that are puzzling people and need to be explained. Otherwise, it appears like FCPS is trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Little dribs and drabs of info trickling out.

At Madison, where there is NO Trig/Precalc Hons next year, the kids who take Alg II reg. will go to Trig/Precalc (reg) (or Prob/Stat, or Trig/Discrete).

The kids who took Alg II HON will go to AP Precalc.

Alg II Hons is a PREREQUISITE for AP Precalc.



In order to take AP Calc BC, you have to have taken AP Calc AB or AP Precalc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was the first to notice this change and post it on this thread. Before everyone gets all spun up about how this isn't hoing to work...let's see and hear what the math teachers ar your school have to say. It may be structured differently at different schools (as a test pilot) or even done differently within a school (i.e. some AP precalc sections do all four units and are taught the same as trig/precalc honors, and some sections only do three units and are essentially trig/precalc regular). Right now none of us have the facts as they apply to our own kids. Patience. Learn with an open mind. Teachers usually make good recommendations for follow on classes based on what they know about your kid. DCUM experts don't know your kid or how your HS math dept is teaching any class.

I agree but the sad thing about this is that, at least at our High School, the math teachers were blind sighted. Last week, they had no idea that Honors Pre Calc Trig was not being offered and AP Calc was being offered. Hopefully admin can fill them in this week or next since they are asking student to submit their choice next week. Perhaps they will leave course submission open in SIS past March and by then, the teachers/staff have a better understanding of the math courses offered next year and how they will be taught(and WHAT will be taught). I believe this was not well communicated down the chain by FCPS admin... HS admin.. then to HS staff.

That should be AP Pre Calc

Anonymous wrote:I was the first to notice this change and post it on this thread. Before everyone gets all spun up about how this isn't hoing to work...let's see and hear what the math teachers ar your school have to say. It may be structured differently at different schools (as a test pilot) or even done differently within a school (i.e. some AP precalc sections do all four units and are taught the same as trig/precalc honors, and some sections only do three units and are essentially trig/precalc regular). Right now none of us have the facts as they apply to our own kids. Patience. Learn with an open mind. Teachers usually make good recommendations for follow on classes based on what they know about your kid. DCUM experts don't know your kid or how your HS math dept is teaching any class.

I agree but the sad thing about this is that, at least at our High School, the math teachers were blind sighted. Last week, they had no idea that Honors Pre Calc Trig was not being offered and AP Calc was being offered. Hopefully admin can fill them in this week or next since they are asking student to submit their choice next week. Perhaps they will leave course submission open in SIS past March and by then, the teachers/staff have a better understanding of the math courses offered next year and how they will be taught(and WHAT will be taught). I believe this was not well communicated down the chain by FCPS admin... HS admin.. then to HS staff.

Typo:

Spun up about how this isn't GOING to work...

I was the first to notice this change and post it on this thread. Before everyone gets all spun up about how this isn't hoing to work...let's see and hear what the math teachers ar your school have to say. It may be structured differently at different schools (as a test pilot) or even done differently within a school (i.e. some AP precalc sections do all four units and are taught the same as trig/precalc honors, and some sections only do three units and are essentially trig/precalc regular). Right now none of us have the facts as they apply to our own kids. Patience. Learn with an open mind. Teachers usually make good recommendations for follow on classes based on what they know about your kid. DCUM experts don't know your kid or how your HS math dept is teaching any class.

Wow! Thank you for your perspective. Eye opening and frustrating! I had not though the about peer group changing. So basically it’s a crap shoot at our HS.

Anonymous wrote:Clearly each HS offers different courses. Next year our kids choices are: AP Pre Calc, Pre Calc Trig DE, PreCalc Trig . Kid is currently in Algebra 2 HN and doing well A-. To the poster who seems to be giving the most detailed responses: which class do you think FCPS and or colleges consider most rigorous?

AP Pre Calc or Pre Calc Trig DE? (regular Pre Calc Trig is out for our kid because it would be a step down in Rigor as kid has taken HN since 7 th). Our kid has an email drafted to counselor and current teacher, but I’m curious for the input.

I'm not familiar with DE so unfortunately can't weigh in there. It is going to be very hard to make Precalculus course selections for next year given so many unknowns. If FCPS is phasing out honors Precalc Trig at most (all?) schools, two possible scenarios jump out:
Scenario 1) Kids who previously took honors Precalc Trig shift to AP Precalculus (and some may go to DE as well) and kids in regular Algebra 2 go to non honors Precalc Trig. If AP Precalculus is just a rebranded honors Precalc Trig, you would have a strong peer group that allows the class to move at a decent pace. While they wouldn't cover the preliminary material for Calculus BC, the class could nonetheless provide a good base for Calculus AB.
Scenario 2) The key question is where do regular Algebra 2 teachers recommend their students go? AP Precalculus was designed for these kids -- it provides them with a chance to get an AP math credit on their high school transcript, potentially gives them college credit, and gives them a solid enough Precalculus base that they could take a calculus course at their future college if desired. If FCPS does recommend regular Algebra 2 students take AP Precalculus, now you have virtually all students taking the same AP Precalculus course absent a small group who stays in regular Precalculus and a small group in Precalculus DE. AP Precalculus would be massively heterogenous which would make districts happy but now you have a wide range of skills in the class and the pace would likely slow as teachers ensure that no student gets left behind, undercutting rigor and providing only mediocre preparation for Calculus AB.

Which of these scenarios (or others) will play out? Who knows.