Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid’s teachers make more money than I do and get better benefits. I very much appreciate them, am always polite, do not try to take their time or make their lives harder. But this idea that I somehow inadequately appreciate teachers is weird to me. Or the idea that I owe them lots of gift cards or gifts. I always make a point of sending thank you cards and, if it is in budget, a target gift card. Beyond that I really don’t think anything else should be expected of me as a parent.

Just how appreciative do I need to be? I am honestly not that appreciated in my job.

+10

Teacher here, who posted above about AP workloads. I don’t need appreciation. I don’t expect it at holidays or at the end of the year. I do appreciate thank you letters when I write college recommendations, but I know not to expect them since they come about 2-5% of the time.

I’d be happy if I can just get some respect. That might look like not calling my job “easy” and telling me to appreciate my summers off. Those 4-5 weeks aren’t much of a trade-off for the grueling 60-70 hour weeks throughout the year.

PP here. I've never called a teachers job easy or told anyone to "appreciate" their time off, because I'm not a jerk.

I think one issue is that teachers interact with many kids and parents and I'm sure the ones who are disrespectful and dismissive feel representative but they aren't. I can only think of one, maybe two, other parents who I've ever encountered who actually disrespect teaching as a profession. Most people I know fall all over themselves to respect and praise our teachers. I think when you encounter people like that, you need to write them off because most people don't feel that way. It's just that the people who do are extremely loud and annoying.

If it makes you feel any better, the same people who call teachers' jobs easy usually also think that most female-dominated professions are easy, and also that SAHMs are lazy. Since I know for a fact that teachers deal with moms much more often than dads, this means that the vast majority of the parents you encounter are ALSO disrespected in their profession, by the same people who feel that way about you. We have a lot more in common than you think. Imagine if we just supported each other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want a job where I’m overworked but am compensated for it. My friends who aren’t teachers work a lot but make over $150k per year. I make $75k. Maybe I’d make that much if I charged for my OT. The job cannot be done with one 45 minute prep period per day. Most days I get zero planning due to meetings and other BS.

Teachers seem to have gross misunderstandings about pay in comparable professions. Most people with degrees in the arts, humanities, and social sciences aren't making $150k a year. Not even those with masters degrees. Add in the health/retirement benefits, and the ability to earn more money over the summer (or save money on child care), and teachers get compensated pretty well.

But I acknowledge the hours are long. We do need to find a way to give teachers more prep time.

This is a weird qualification. First, STEM teachers exist and don't have a completely different salary scale. Second, teaching in most states requires a professional degree or certification in *teaching*. I feel like you're trying to say teachers are only comparable to people with arts and humanities degrees, despite there not being a direct relationship, because you think both have lower earning power. Or maybe because you think teaching is an impractical career choice, which...well, isn't that exactly the problem?

Well, first of all, I think STEM and SpEd should be on different scales. It’s the arts, humanities, and social science teachers stopping that.

Second, we’re talking about the type of profession, not just the degree. Teaching, even STEM teaching, is much more closely linked to the arts, humanities, and social sciences than jobs in math, science, engineering, and medicine.

Third, often the degrees aren't even the same. And even when they are, someone going into math education is going to be taking a different set of classes than someone planning to go into an actuarial, engineering, analysis, or finance career.

Should an AP English, AP Euro History, or AP Macroeconomics teacher be paid on a lower scale than SpEd or STEM? They have considerable content knowledge that others do not have. They can also have 150 students in their advanced courses, many of whom also have 504s or IEPs that require the same support/documentation/adherence that a SpEd teacher gives to their students..

See where this leads? How do you determine who deserves higher pay?

Same way as every other job: based on the relative difficulty of finding qualified staff.

Clearly you're an English teacher and not an Econ teacher.

Well, our English positions have been the hardest to fill for the last 6 years. It’s the only department to have two openings right now. It sure seems like we are having difficulty finding qualified English teachers. We also can’t find people willing to take on the extra work of ANY advanced course, STEM or otherwise. The writing is on the wall. Why take on such a demanding position for the same pay?

Hmmm… it looks like I understand a bit of economics. Let’s try to refrain from little personal attacks, shall we? It’s really unnecessary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want a job where I’m overworked but am compensated for it. My friends who aren’t teachers work a lot but make over $150k per year. I make $75k. Maybe I’d make that much if I charged for my OT. The job cannot be done with one 45 minute prep period per day. Most days I get zero planning due to meetings and other BS.

Teachers seem to have gross misunderstandings about pay in comparable professions. Most people with degrees in the arts, humanities, and social sciences aren't making $150k a year. Not even those with masters degrees. Add in the health/retirement benefits, and the ability to earn more money over the summer (or save money on child care), and teachers get compensated pretty well.

But I acknowledge the hours are long. We do need to find a way to give teachers more prep time.

This is a weird qualification. First, STEM teachers exist and don't have a completely different salary scale. Second, teaching in most states requires a professional degree or certification in *teaching*. I feel like you're trying to say teachers are only comparable to people with arts and humanities degrees, despite there not being a direct relationship, because you think both have lower earning power. Or maybe because you think teaching is an impractical career choice, which...well, isn't that exactly the problem?

Well, first of all, I think STEM and SpEd should be on different scales. It’s the arts, humanities, and social science teachers stopping that.

Second, we’re talking about the type of profession, not just the degree. Teaching, even STEM teaching, is much more closely linked to the arts, humanities, and social sciences than jobs in math, science, engineering, and medicine.

Third, often the degrees aren't even the same. And even when they are, someone going into math education is going to be taking a different set of classes than someone planning to go into an actuarial, engineering, analysis, or finance career.

Should an AP English, AP Euro History, or AP Macroeconomics teacher be paid on a lower scale than SpEd or STEM? They have considerable content knowledge that others do not have. They can also have 150 students in their advanced courses, many of whom also have 504s or IEPs that require the same support/documentation/adherence that a SpEd teacher gives to their students..

See where this leads? How do you determine who deserves higher pay?

Same way as every other job: based on the relative difficulty of finding qualified staff.

Clearly you're an English teacher and not an Econ teacher.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont' think the problem is the hours or the days off. For me, the biggest issue is that we as teachers are constantly held responsible for things that are out of our control. COVID and the reaction of schools being the latest thing on that list. Before COVID it was poverty, children who don't speak English expected to perform at the same levels as children whose parents constantly seek outside tutoring.

We are held responsible for behaviors from children that are insane, curriculum issues etc etc. We are the ones held responsible for all these factors when we have no control over them.
It has to stop. We get little support for these things and are typically told we are to blame and to be more reflective in our teaching to get better results.
It is a trauma bond at a certain level and that is what is causing the burn out.

Our school’s reaction to Covid was directly controlled and held hostage by our teachers unions. I will always hold them responsible for a significant portion of our kids learning loss. Always. Many in our state only went back into the classroom because the governor mandated it and said virtual learning would not count as learning hours.

We are always responsible for learning loss. Always. Even when kids aren't in the classroom because everything shut down. Even when we are told by our district not to contact children or record us reading a book to them because it could be a copyright issue.

We are always responsible even when their parents are in the same house and we are on a screen. WE are ALWAYS responsible for learning loss.

Why do you think this is a new angle, you are just angry, we were always held responsible. Now it is just more obvious how we didn't cause covid, but we are still responsible. So I shrug. I took an academic leave of absence covid year because I thought teaching young children virtually was reprehensible. Guess what? You are still holding me responsible for your kids learning loss in your head, even though the only thing I could do was say no and not teach that way. I am STILL responsible. Do you see how ridiculous this reasoning is?

We get it. We understand so much that many of us are leaving because it has gotten abusive. If you have zero control, you can't have full responsibility without feeling despondent.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher who takes pride in my job. Yes, I work many hours a week. Yes, I make sacrifices. No, I don’t expect any accolades and I’d be thrilled to get rid of Teacher Appreciation Week.

What I see in this thread is nothing but an attack. I see posters who are unwilling to accept that this job may be hard or that it may take extra hours. The idea that some teachers are overworked is met with hostility. Why? Why do some posters feel such anger?

There are many different types of teachers and they teach in so many different circumstances. I have no problem believing that some teachers work 35 a week while others work 65. Why disparage the ones who say all they want is acknowledgment that they work hard? Seriously, why is that a problem for some posters?

I Absolutely believe them and think it's a really hard job! I make a comparable salary to a mid-career teacher and will readily admit my job is much lower stress and gives me more autonomy to say no to overload work. I just think the PP who says all her friends make 150k for 3-4 hours of work a day, hour long lunches, and 3 week breaks is comparing some really unusual and lucky outliers as of they're the norm. They're NOT.

Anonymous wrote:NP. What sort of acknowledgement were you looking for, OP? I appreciate you.

I also appreciate healthcare workers, emergency responders, retail workers, office workers, chefs, pilots, uber drivers, delivery personnel, and anyone else who goes the extra mile to make a positive difference in the world. But I don’t see many threads about them either.

If you are relying on this forum for validation it’s probably not the right place to look. It seems a bit like you were trying to start an argument in your post.

I have a feeling your students, their parents, and your colleagues value the important work you’re doing. Keep it up and enjoy the holiday break in a few weeks if you’ll be getting one!

Thank you. That’s really all the encouragement I need: an understanding voice. And you’re correct. There are hard workers in all professions. I just feel like teachers so regularly get attacked here, and it’s easy to feel defensive when you care about your job so much.

NP. What sort of acknowledgement were you looking for, OP? I appreciate you.

I also appreciate healthcare workers, emergency responders, retail workers, office workers, chefs, pilots, uber drivers, delivery personnel, and anyone else who goes the extra mile to make a positive difference in the world. But I don’t see many threads about them either.

If you are relying on this forum for validation it’s probably not the right place to look. It seems a bit like you were trying to start an argument in your post.

I have a feeling your students, their parents, and your colleagues value the important work you’re doing. Keep it up and enjoy the holiday break in a few weeks if you’ll be getting one!

I’m a teacher who takes pride in my job. Yes, I work many hours a week. Yes, I make sacrifices. No, I don’t expect any accolades and I’d be thrilled to get rid of Teacher Appreciation Week.

What I see in this thread is nothing but an attack. I see posters who are unwilling to accept that this job may be hard or that it may take extra hours. The idea that some teachers are overworked is met with hostility. Why? Why do some posters feel such anger?

There are many different types of teachers and they teach in so many different circumstances. I have no problem believing that some teachers work 35 a week while others work 65. Why disparage the ones who say all they want is acknowledgment that they work hard? Seriously, why is that a problem for some posters?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont' think the problem is the hours or the days off. For me, the biggest issue is that we as teachers are constantly held responsible for things that are out of our control. COVID and the reaction of schools being the latest thing on that list. Before COVID it was poverty, children who don't speak English expected to perform at the same levels as children whose parents constantly seek outside tutoring.

We are held responsible for behaviors from children that are insane, curriculum issues etc etc. We are the ones held responsible for all these factors when we have no control over them.
It has to stop. We get little support for these things and are typically told we are to blame and to be more reflective in our teaching to get better results.
It is a trauma bond at a certain level and that is what is causing the burn out.

Our school’s reaction to Covid was directly controlled and held hostage by our teachers unions. I will always hold them responsible for a significant portion of our kids learning loss. Always. Many in our state only went back into the classroom because the governor mandated it and said virtual learning would not count as learning hours.

Don’t forget the sick-outs. There is some serious re-writing of history around here with respect to the influence teachers had on the length of closures.

Anonymous wrote:I dont' think the problem is the hours or the days off. For me, the biggest issue is that we as teachers are constantly held responsible for things that are out of our control. COVID and the reaction of schools being the latest thing on that list. Before COVID it was poverty, children who don't speak English expected to perform at the same levels as children whose parents constantly seek outside tutoring.

We are held responsible for behaviors from children that are insane, curriculum issues etc etc. We are the ones held responsible for all these factors when we have no control over them.
It has to stop. We get little support for these things and are typically told we are to blame and to be more reflective in our teaching to get better results.
It is a trauma bond at a certain level and that is what is causing the burn out.

Our school’s reaction to Covid was directly controlled and held hostage by our teachers unions. I will always hold them responsible for a significant portion of our kids learning loss. Always. Many in our state only went back into the classroom because the governor mandated it and said virtual learning would not count as learning hours.

Anonymous wrote:I dont' think the problem is the hours or the days off. For me, the biggest issue is that we as teachers are constantly held responsible for things that are out of our control. COVID and the reaction of schools being the latest thing on that list. Before COVID it was poverty, children who don't speak English expected to perform at the same levels as children whose parents constantly seek outside tutoring.

We are held responsible for behaviors from children that are insane, curriculum issues etc etc. We are the ones held responsible for all these factors when we have no control over them.
It has to stop. We get little support for these things and are typically told we are to blame and to be more reflective in our teaching to get better results.
It is a trauma bond at a certain level and that is what is causing the burn out.

I think you’re right. The thing that burned me out of teaching was playing therapist to so many troubled kids. I just couldn’t compartmentalize enough to hack it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid’s teachers make more money than I do and get better benefits. I very much appreciate them, am always polite, do not try to take their time or make their lives harder. But this idea that I somehow inadequately appreciate teachers is weird to me. Or the idea that I owe them lots of gift cards or gifts. I always make a point of sending thank you cards and, if it is in budget, a target gift card. Beyond that I really don’t think anything else should be expected of me as a parent.

Just how appreciative do I need to be? I am honestly not that appreciated in my job.

+10

Teacher here, who posted above about AP workloads. I don’t need appreciation. I don’t expect it at holidays or at the end of the year. I do appreciate thank you letters when I write college recommendations, but I know not to expect them since they come about 2-5% of the time.

I’d be happy if I can just get some respect. That might look like not calling my job “easy” and telling me to appreciate my summers off. Those 4-5 weeks aren’t much of a trade-off for the grueling 60-70 hour weeks throughout the year.

Nobody does that. No one.

Seriously? It’s in this thread. Page 2, I believe. It’s literally in EVERY thread that talks about teacher pay or work hours. Heck, my sister-in-law said it a few weeks back.

You mean the person who said it’s easy if you’re willing to do a crappy job? They were right. You are obviously working very hard. That’s your choice.

I dont' think the problem is the hours or the days off. For me, the biggest issue is that we as teachers are constantly held responsible for things that are out of our control. COVID and the reaction of schools being the latest thing on that list. Before COVID it was poverty, children who don't speak English expected to perform at the same levels as children whose parents constantly seek outside tutoring.

We are held responsible for behaviors from children that are insane, curriculum issues etc etc. We are the ones held responsible for all these factors when we have no control over them.
It has to stop. We get little support for these things and are typically told we are to blame and to be more reflective in our teaching to get better results.
It is a trauma bond at a certain level and that is what is causing the burn out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher with many years of experience. I can usually get all my work done in 35 hours although there are busier times.

It’s just a job. I do it well but I refuse to play the martyr.

Out of curiosity: elementary or high school?

High school. Writing heavy subject.

I will admit to being a fast reader.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher with many years of experience. I can usually get all my work done in 35 hours although there are busier times.

It’s just a job. I do it well but I refuse to play the martyr.

Out of curiosity: elementary or high school?