Sounds like you are already doing a lot right.

Hotel

Meals out. If she doesn't get there on time, that's fine. Tell he 6:30 and be prepared for 7.

Three day stays.

Bring snacks for late meals.

Have your own pre Thanksgiving so you aren't upset about the turkey etc.

Send the kids alone for an evening while you guys have a date.

Send Gma and the kids alone to the zoo or whatever.

When the kids are old enough to send alone, do it.

Just tell her all the gory details about your dental work or pap smear or menopause and the time you got your ear wax removed. Tell her you have a toenail fungus you are really worried about and go on at length. Repeat like you forgot you already told her.

Just join in praising the other relatives.

ASK for advice on stupid things and ask a LOT of questions like knitting or growing hydrangeas. Ask about her recipe for the burnt stuffing.

If they get into something where you are going to lash out, grey rock. BTW what does your spouse say about this? Are you over reacting or are they really pushing?

Stay home, schedule a Zoom meeting, first ugly or stupid comment, close the session.

pp again. And the rest of your post, PP, was very thoughtful and helpful to others

ground myself in a place of softness with them

this is such a sweet turn-of-a-phrase

My parents are very similar. I come from a Chinese background and the way you describe your parents is exactly like mine. Here are things that help me:

- I do not spend the night together with them. I would not stay at their house, even for one night, or have them stay at mine. Always a hotel.
- I limit the amount of time I spend with them to 3-4 hours max. Even on a trip we take together. I will hang out by myself.
- If my kid needs extra grandparents time because my kid loves her grandparents (which I actually really appreciate) then I leave kid alone with them and come later for meal
- I practice radical acceptance of my parents behaviors and lifestyle. Specifically I mean the dust, the piles of stuff, the messiness, my mothers utter inability to be on time
- I do not try and give them feedback. I try to make small talk and be pleasant and ground myself in a place of softness with them. I try to enjoy to the best of my ability small talk and make the small talk interesting in its own right.
- most therapeutic tool but this has taken me years to strengthen: If a comment is made that I am not ok or a behavior starts that I can’t stand I focus first on my own breathing and noticing what is happening in my body. I try and regulate myself and soothe my nerves. Then I decide whether I will leave soon or stay and exactly how much longer I will stay. The first few years I did this I would not comment on the behavior or comment because it was too triggering for me and I could not trust myself to be able to handle the response and not become fully fired up or overwhelmed. Over the years and as I worked on my own regulation I have gotten to the point where I can now easily say “I don’t want to talk about that”, “can you please stop doing that it’s too loud for me”, “please don’t play that way with kid,” etc… nonchalantly. If they don’t stop I don’t push either I just decide I am leaving and will say my goodbyes pleasantly a few minutes later. I do not also try and give them feedback and change them when I ask them to stop. This is not my job. My job is to take care of myself and let my needs and boundaries be known. If my needs won’t be respected it is not my parents responsibility to take care of them (at least not at this point), it’s my responsibility and I care for myself in a number of ways but the first way is removing myself from the situation.

I love my parents to be best of my ability and I know they love me too. There is a lot of trauma in my that they inflicted - emotionally and physically. But my parents have a lot of trauma too. I realized in my early 20s I had two choices - sever them completely or find a new way to have a relationship with them where I am safe because I know I can depend on myself and self soothe with clear boundaries. It’s 15+ years later now and the above works well 95% of the time. The remaining 5% of the time when they truly do something out of control and I let myself get too triggered and rage I take it to therapy or I distance myself from them for weeks or months - whatever it takes for me to truly recover.

I know I wrote an essay but I know how hard this is and I hope some of it helps. Good luck!

Stay home.

Stay home for this holiday. Get some headspace, see what it’s like to have a holiday in your own home.

Too much togetherness. Everyone can manage to get along, can be on best/good enough behavior for the short time people are visiting each other IF there isn't the unreasonable expectation of too much daily togetherness. I second the hotel.

Look into Acceptance and Commitment Therapy

OP - you stay in a hotel. You visit them during each day for the duration that works for you. You find other things in their area to do. You find joyful experiences for your own family. It can be sightseeing in the area, it can be playing cards or board game at the hotel. You do not make the trip entirely about your parents.

It's starts with the hotel. That's nonnegotiable.

Your post sounds typical of visits to our parents and many of my friends. My husband and I come from different cultures but you could be describing either of our mothers.

Airbnb. I only stay in those with my family when we visit my family now. It’s life changing and visits can actually be enjoyable. Staying elsewhere helps me ignore the clutter.

DH and I have both relaxed a lot as we got older and don’t let a lot of what you said bother us. “Our teeth look bad? Thanks, mom. You realize you insult me constantly, right? Let’s be nice in front of the kids. Can you pass the bread?”

As for the cold or burned food, we make sure we eat out a lot now, sometimes before we go over for dinner. It’s especially important as your kids are older and have never ending appetites. We will swing through a drive thru on the way to their house and they eat it before we get there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing to consider, OP:
You have seen how your parents treat people who don’t toe the line. That is how they will treat your children when your children are old enough to push back on things. I would back off from this relationship by a lot.

I know you said you can’t do a short visit because of distance, but make it a smaller part of a larger trip. Go visit your family for a day or two, then spend a few days at the nearest big city or national park. Or go but stay at a resort with lots of activities (I’m thinking Great Wolf Lodge sort of place) and tell them you’ll be over for dinner after a day of swimming or whatever, so you are there for 4 days but only for dinner.

Don’t visit more than twice a year, and space those out (like Thanksgiving and Easter for example).

When you go, assume that the house will be messy, everyone will be later than planned for everything (if reservations are involved, lie about the time), all that you need to let go. BUT, you don’t have to let go of them putting you down. If they are rude, say, “That was rude. If you are going to speak to me that way we will leave.” Then follow through.

OP, I wrote earlier about going back to therapy (among other things), and I have been thinking about you. The poster above brings up an important point. More than your children pushing back on their grandparents, your children will push back on you. And you may very well have a tough time with this (come join us in the tween/teen topic to see what I mean). Right now you are not in a position to handle your own reaction to your kids when they push back. You cannot put the basics in perspective with your parents. It may seem like the teen years are far away but it's better to address these issues now rather than when you are in the thick of it. (Dealing with my parents while I have moody teens makes dealing with either set much harder).

OP here. I agree about this. When my dad was ranting at me, totally out of control, I was thinking that I never want to do this to my kids. And they are definitely starting to get some attitude and I really struggle to deal with it well.

About my parents treating my girls the way they treated me, I have always been very clear that it would be unacceptable. So far they've bitten their tongue and have not replicated the judgments or criticism i grew up with. My mom was basically a teenager when they had me (married young) and she was just copying what her own mom did, now she is older and wiser and kind of gets it. But I guess with me there is too much history, too many triggers, and she can't change her behavior towards me.

My siblings, who aren't so nice to me, are incredible to my kids. My kids adore them. I keep a close eye on how my girls are treated and there have been zero issues, not even minor ones.

I have started the search for a therapist again, so far just getting rejections from everyone I contact (not taking patients), but will keep trying.

OP I am really glad that your family is nice to your kids, but please remember that cute cuddly compliant kids often get treated very differently than teens/young adults.

And not just that. The kids can see the disconnect between how your parents and siblings treat you and how they treat them. They may not say it out loud, but they are going to internalize the idea that you’re the problem. Is that what you want your kids to think?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing to consider, OP:
You have seen how your parents treat people who don’t toe the line. That is how they will treat your children when your children are old enough to push back on things. I would back off from this relationship by a lot.

I know you said you can’t do a short visit because of distance, but make it a smaller part of a larger trip. Go visit your family for a day or two, then spend a few days at the nearest big city or national park. Or go but stay at a resort with lots of activities (I’m thinking Great Wolf Lodge sort of place) and tell them you’ll be over for dinner after a day of swimming or whatever, so you are there for 4 days but only for dinner.

Don’t visit more than twice a year, and space those out (like Thanksgiving and Easter for example).

When you go, assume that the house will be messy, everyone will be later than planned for everything (if reservations are involved, lie about the time), all that you need to let go. BUT, you don’t have to let go of them putting you down. If they are rude, say, “That was rude. If you are going to speak to me that way we will leave.” Then follow through.

OP, I wrote earlier about going back to therapy (among other things), and I have been thinking about you. The poster above brings up an important point. More than your children pushing back on their grandparents, your children will push back on you. And you may very well have a tough time with this (come join us in the tween/teen topic to see what I mean). Right now you are not in a position to handle your own reaction to your kids when they push back. You cannot put the basics in perspective with your parents. It may seem like the teen years are far away but it's better to address these issues now rather than when you are in the thick of it. (Dealing with my parents while I have moody teens makes dealing with either set much harder).

OP here. I agree about this. When my dad was ranting at me, totally out of control, I was thinking that I never want to do this to my kids. And they are definitely starting to get some attitude and I really struggle to deal with it well.

About my parents treating my girls the way they treated me, I have always been very clear that it would be unacceptable. So far they've bitten their tongue and have not replicated the judgments or criticism i grew up with. My mom was basically a teenager when they had me (married young) and she was just copying what her own mom did, now she is older and wiser and kind of gets it. But I guess with me there is too much history, too many triggers, and she can't change her behavior towards me.

My siblings, who aren't so nice to me, are incredible to my kids. My kids adore them. I keep a close eye on how my girls are treated and there have been zero issues, not even minor ones.

I have started the search for a therapist again, so far just getting rejections from everyone I contact (not taking patients), but will keep trying.

OP I am really glad that your family is nice to your kids, but please remember that cute cuddly compliant kids often get treated very differently than teens/young adults.

As someone who really values being on time, staying organized, not shouting, not letting stuff pile up, this is really stressful and unpleasant to me. I feel like a lot of my self-control is eroded by dealing with their way of life while we visit.

OP - this is your coping response to your upbringing. Why wouldn't their household be triggering? You do just have to mentally let things go for that trip's duration. Late meals, burned stuff and dirty damn dishes everywhere. And dream of your own space.

- Someone who stopped trying to clean that joint when I visit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a guest in their home, you’re accepting who and how they are. If you can’t accept that, you need to either stay in a hotel, or host yourself so that you are on your own turf.

If you choose to visit their chaotic environment, just be prepared for KNOWN factors. Have a stash of your own food, have things to keep your kids entertained—so that when dinner is late or incomplete, you are at least fed and occupied.

Mess, so what. It’s not your mess, it’s a few days. Go out as much as you can, even if you have to make up errands like needing a pharmacy item. Why make a cup of tea in their house when you can go buy a magazine, get a Starbucks and enjoy 20 minutes of peace in the parking lot?

If they ask rude questions, say you’re not discussing that with them. If they make a rude comment, say “That’s not polite” and then move on. You don’t have to take it, but don’t try to change them or go deep about it. Just refuse to engage and keep it moving.

Um, no. Parents are rude with the judgment and intrusive questions. I'd just ignore those and not answer. Steer to other topics. And tell them they are being rude. Then shorten the visits.

You say they're wonderful grandparents. And maybe they are now. But that sort of thing will eventually spill over to your kids.

Wowwwwww, maybe read the full post before you highlight one line and act like you're bringing insight. Here's what I wrote at the END of my post that you conveniently skipped over:
If they ask rude questions, say you’re not discussing that with them. If they make a rude comment, say “That’s not polite” and then move on. You don’t have to take it, but don’t try to change them or go deep about it. Just refuse to engage and keep it moving.