Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm realizing more and more how clueless people are about basic etiquette. I used to think my mom was too hung up on the "rules", but now I appreciate knowing how to properly host things. I was just talking to BIL's fiancee last night about her potluck wedding shower. Her friend is "hosting", her mother is cooking most of the food, and she has asked MIL to bring food as well. Part of her ignorance about etiquette is cultural, but the same can't be said for most people who just don't have a clue.

Who defines etiquette though? I know it's great to be polite but really, it's 2010 not 1940. Sometimes etiquette is as outdated as some of the religious BS of the Catholic Church. Sit, stand, kneel, sit, stand, kneel... Like the blind leading the blind. It's so regional, cultural, and changeable. You etiquette ladies smitten can be classy and far from tacky w/out judging others or following your outdated etiquette books. Sheesh.

Leaving aside the substance of why we need etiquette:

1. The sweeping insult re: millions of practicing Catholics is just mean and gratuitous.
2. You contradict yourself when you say that those rituals of Catholic worship are "so regional, cultural, and changeable." In fact, not much has changed on that score for many hundreds of years.

My point is it is all RITUAL. I am Catholic. It's all MOTIONS. And yes, the church use to be held in Latin, that changed. You say the same crap each mass like a robot. I liken etiquette to that. Snobby, snotty people use etiquette as a reason to judge others for not being or acting like them, or like they think people should be behaving. It's ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:
Who defines etiquette though? I know it's great to be polite but really, it's 2010 not 1940. Sometimes etiquette is as outdated as some of the religious BS of the Catholic Church. Sit, stand, kneel, sit, stand, kneel... Like the blind leading the blind. It's so regional, cultural, and changeable. You etiquette ladies smitten can be classy and far from tacky w/out judging others or following your outdated etiquette books. Sheesh.

Etiquette / ritual / tradition / liturgical rules all have different defintions. The "religious BS of the Catholic Church" that you refer to is not etiquette - it is liturgical rules. If you need to bash the Catholic Church - there are many other discussions to do it through. I found it interesting that you thought it was appropriate in this discussion.

Dollar dance doesn't bother me. It sounds voluntary and involves a dollar. I doubt the wedding invitation goes out telling guests to bring money, right? OP's situation is different. It's an express request for cash and involves coworkers. If it were a small, select shower among people whose tradition this is, perhaps I could see it. Inviting coworkers and asking for money is terrible.

Anonymous wrote:We had to chip in to cover the costs of a recent baby shower we attended (wish I were joking), and were strongly encouraged to give cash even though there were several registries to choose from. I sent a gift to their home instead, and we got an e-mail (to a group) a few days later, reminding everyone not to send anything to the home as no one was home during the day. Sigh.

Cringe. That's bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So for vast swaths of the rest of our nation, it's ok to think of yourself and not your guests?

By this logic, no one could ever have a wedding shower or baby shower or birthday party or any other event in which gifts were allowed. (Meaningless who "hosts" the party - we all know what's really going on here - a gift giving event.) Because obviously the point of such a party must be to receive gifts. How vulgar and selfish.

Not PP, but the point of a baby or wedding shower is to honor the baby/mom-to-be or bride and to shower her/them with gifts. In contrast, the point of a wedding is to get married, and celebrate the new marriage with friends and family at the reception/party.

Or am I wrong about that?

Thank you! The purpose of a shower is to "shower with gifts." In other words-- the wedding is the "celebratory event," in the words of a pp. The shower is to give gifts. If you think that asking for money instead of gifts is crass, fine. But the point of the event is to help someone prepare for their new life with spouse or baby by giving them something they will need. Gosh, people, can you muster some good will for a new mother/newly married person? Being so easily offended is hardly a sign of good character.

The point of the *wedding shower* is to help someone prepare for their new life w/spouse. I love showers. Plenty of goodwill there!

The point of the *wedding* is to celebrate. Not to shower with gifts, to celebrate the event. I love weddings, too; plenty of goodwill there too! But don't ask me for money when I've come not to shower you with gifts, but to help you celebrate your new marriage.

We had to chip in to cover the costs of a recent baby shower we attended (wish I were joking), and were strongly encouraged to give cash even though there were several registries to choose from. I sent a gift to their home instead, and we got an e-mail (to a group) a few days later, reminding everyone not to send anything to the home as no one was home during the day. Sigh.

I would not go. The money giving is not tacky IMO it's the [b]asking[/b] for money does seem tacky. If they really need the money she could have said "here's the registry but money is peferred". Or if it's a cultural norm, say you are invited and BTW people often bring money as a gift in this culture. At least guests feel like they have a choice. If the money is for the baby, what are they going to buy with it that cannot be listed on a baby register? Also, it's one thing to ask family or close friends to bring food or drinks but to ask that of a distant connection (co-woker of a sister) is too much. If the sister is hosting the shower why can't she at least save enough so she can feed guests who've been told to bring money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So for vast swaths of the rest of our nation, it's ok to think of yourself and not your guests?

By this logic, no one could ever have a wedding shower or baby shower or birthday party or any other event in which gifts were allowed. (Meaningless who "hosts" the party - we all know what's really going on here - a gift giving event.) Because obviously the point of such a party must be to receive gifts. How vulgar and selfish.

Not PP, but the point of a baby or wedding shower is to honor the baby/mom-to-be or bride and to shower her/them with gifts. In contrast, the point of a wedding is to get married, and celebrate the new marriage with friends and family at the reception/party.

Or am I wrong about that?

Thank you! The purpose of a shower is to "shower with gifts." In other words-- the wedding is the "celebratory event," in the words of a pp. The shower is to give gifts. If you think that asking for money instead of gifts is crass, fine. But the point of the event is to help someone prepare for their new life with spouse or baby by giving them something they will need. Gosh, people, can you muster some good will for a new mother/newly married person? Being so easily offended is hardly a sign of good character.

can't you just not bring any money for the tree if you are so offended?

18:14 again sorry for all my typos and wrong word inserts.

Wanted to chime in and say I don't find the dollar dance thing offensive-especially given it's a tradition and we're talking about a dollar. The cash tree I think it put out hoping you can rake in big bucks and I have yet to find any evidence it is some tradition going back many years in a culture.

Cash gifts are totally fine as long as they are not expected. We have heard from on these posts about the Korean and Jewish tradition and that did not offend me in the least becomes nobody is told to give money, it's just a tradition among those close to the family.

In Japan, new clean banknotes are an acceptable gift for newlyweds or to give to family at funerals - There are strict presentation rules, though. There are specific decorated "wedding" envelopes to stick the wedding notes in, and specific decorated "funereal" envelopes for the funeral. Notes have to folded in a certain way in the envelope (forget which). You bow, and present the envelope with both hands, etc...

Being polite and thoughtful means accommodating your guests or hosts in the way they expect.

OP, am I right that you feel obligated to go because of your coworker, not because you are close to her sister? If so, I find it even stranger that they explicitly asked for money (I mean, I feel obligated go to my boss's annual picnic, but being asked to attend - let alone bring money to - an event for a family member of his would be really odd!) Are other coworkers invited as well? What do they think?

The potluck thing is cheap/tacky but I'm not as offended by that (I often offer to bring something to a shower if I'm close to the hostess). I'd go the make-any-excuse not to go route if it were me, but if you really feel obligated, I'd do as a PP suggested and get a gift card with no explicit amount written on it - just whatever you ere planning to spend had you bought a gift.

Anonymous wrote:

So for vast swaths of the rest of our nation, it's ok to think of yourself and not your guests?

By this logic, no one could ever have a wedding shower or baby shower or birthday party or any other event in which gifts were allowed. (Meaningless who "hosts" the party - we all know what's really going on here - a gift giving event.) Because obviously the point of such a party must be to receive gifts. How vulgar and selfish.

Not PP, but the point of a baby or wedding shower is to honor the baby/mom-to-be or bride and to shower her/them with gifts. In contrast, the point of a wedding is to get married, and celebrate the new marriage with friends and family at the reception/party.

Or am I wrong about that?

So for vast swaths of the rest of our nation, it's ok to think of yourself and not your guests?

By this logic, no one could ever have a wedding shower or baby shower or birthday party or any other event in which gifts were allowed. (Meaningless who "hosts" the party - we all know what's really going on here - a gift giving event.) Because obviously the point of such a party must be to receive gifts. How vulgar and selfish.