Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would choose based on where I think I’d be after graduation. Pomona is very well known in the west coast, while Amherst is better known on the east coast. Other than that, I’d choose by climate. For me, it would be Pomona, hands down.

As someone who is LA, keep in mind that the inland empire (where Pomona is) is not Santa Monica. It is very, very hot especially from Aug-Oct and air quality is very poor due to smog, fires, etc. So that is not a better climate for all people. My kid would take Amherst climate (we live on east coast now) over Pomona any day of the week.

But your kid is looking to try something new just like a northeast kid wants to do the same. This goes back to the those of us saying that if this geographic detail is a key factor in school choice - kids won’t be applying to both .

Note - there are plenty of us that understand exactly where Pomona is… there are reasons for a student to still like the school and location despite the fact that doesn’t register on ‘it’ locations among the wealthy in CA.

Anonymous wrote:I would choose based on where I think I’d be after graduation. Pomona is very well known in the west coast, while Amherst is better known on the east coast. Other than that, I’d choose by climate. For me, it would be Pomona, hands down.

As someone who is LA, keep in mind that the inland empire (where Pomona is) is not Santa Monica. It is very, very hot especially from Aug-Oct and air quality is very poor due to smog, fires, etc. So that is not a better climate for all people. My kid would take Amherst climate (we live on east coast now) over Pomona any day of the week.

I would choose based on where I think I’d be after graduation. Pomona is very well known in the west coast, while Amherst is better known on the east coast. Other than that, I’d choose by climate. For me, it would be Pomona, hands down.

That's interesting because it has consistently ranked top 5 in most LAC rankings and currently is #3 on usn, right below Amherst.

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Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I really doubt that if you are talking about white students from the DMV, even with the athletics factor taken into account. Amherst is slightly bigger, 1970 or so to Pomona’s 1700 or so, and Amherst is 51% white (https://www.amherst.edu/admission/diversity) to Pomona’s 34% (https://www.pomona.edu/administration/diversity-pomona/facts-glance). Also, around 1/4 of each incoming class at Pomona is from California most years.

Amherst has 40% white domestic students. It’s athletes (data is I think 2017) are 74% white. Pomona has a high proportion of Asian students — I was referring to URMs.

Here's the data according to the recent CDS:

Amherst- 10% international, 15% Hispanic of any origin, 10% black, 39% white, 0.5% native american, 15% asian, 7.5% multiracial, 2% unknown
Pomona- 11% international, 16% Hispanic of any origin, 9% black, 34% white, 0.7% native american, 17% asian, 8% multiracial, 4% unknown

all in all, very much comparable in diversity if not indistinguishable. no major difference in Asians, URMs, etc.

Interesting (surprised the Asian percentage, especially, at Pomona is so low), but here’s the overall point: 35% of Amherst students are athletes and 70% or so of athletes are white. Even taking into account that a very small percentage of athletes are international students, most of the white domestic students at Amherst are varsity athletes. That’s perverse. Couple that with very, very strong URM recruiting (think about what a relatively rural place like Amherst has to do to get the numbers Pomona has), first gen whites, and geographically diverse whites, and your typical high stats, non-athlete white kid has almost no chance of RD admission (competing for the remaining 10% of spots in the entire class, when this is by far the largest applicant pool). My gut tells me Pomona would be a slightly easier admit for that type of student, where he or she might not be quite as squeezed out by Amherst’s dual and contradictory institutional priorities of athletics and URM recruitment. But I could be wrong — maybe admission to either school is near impossible.

A lot of speculation and judgment in this post. They could use one of those brilliant jump to conclusions mats from Office Space!

Pomona doesn't have the East Coast name recognition of Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams, and Wellesley but it is a great school that is extremely well regarded out West. Personally, I prefer the campus and location Pomona has but that really is just personal preference. Pomona actually felt bigger than Amherst because of how all those colleges are campus wise and how easily people move around. Amherst does feel like being at a singular small LAC.

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of athlete-non athletes divide, how well would an Asian female lax player who is pretty good and experienced (varsity captain) but doesn’t want to spent her time playing D3 lax fit in?

Perhaps this comes down to what you mean by "athlete-non athletes divide."

Because LACs have a higher percentage of athletes due to their small size, there's the appearance of a divide during the admission process, as its a more common hook than at a larger school. (I'm assuming a similar number of teams, but that tends to be true.)

But once enrolled, I think the situation flips. At these small residential colleges, everyone gets to know everyone and closed events are generally not tolerated. At the larger schools, particularly the ones with only one or two years of on-campus housing, students are more likely to rely on fraternities/sororities or athletic teams to make up for moving off campus, so "divides" form. Larger classes and more time commitment for athletics at the D1 level also plays into this.

But amongst LACs, the Claremont Colleges would probably overall have a lower percentage of athletes compared to most of their similarly ranked peers, given there's two teams per sport and over 6,000 students. So even less of an issue there than at most. If there's an exception to that, my guess would be CMC.

Speaking of athlete-non athletes divide, how well would an Asian female lax player who is pretty good and experienced (varsity captain) but doesn’t want to spent her time playing D3 lax fit in?

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Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I suspect you have not been to Claremont. There is no comparison. The 5Cs are really on one campus. Crossing from Scripps to CMC to Pomona is like moving from one quad at UMASS to another part of campus. They share a library, sports teams, dining hall access, a bookstore etc. The Amherst consortium may have value, but they are not the same (I went to school in Claremont and just toured UMASS with one of my kids).

+1

Never said or implied that the Amherst consortium and Claremont are the same — was only responding to those saying the UMass one had no value. And, no, I have never been to Claremont. But the more I hear about Claremont, the line between “consortium” and “pleasantly laid out mid-size university with discrete residential areas” becomes blurred. Amherst really is a small liberal arts college. I would like to hear more about why Pomona is as well. At a certain point, methinks you can’t have your small liberal arts cake (Pomona!) and eat it too (5 fully-integrated colleges that are, as you say, “really on one campus”).

The Claremont Colleges are unique because of their contiguous layout, but the five undergraduate colleges themselves are far more similar to traditional liberal arts colleges than to a mid-size university. The biggest reason would be that the two graduate schools are separate from the five undergraduate colleges in terms of faculty, so these are really baccalaureate institutions. The next biggest reason would be the undergraduate faculty, academic requirements, and housing are separate for each of the colleges themselves, so they really are functionally separate. A place like Yale might be sorta similar if there were no grad students and each of its residential colleges had different graduation requirements, different academic advisors, and different faculty offering different courses with preferential enrollment to those attending their affiliated college.

The closest the line comes to blurring would be athletics. Pomona and Pitzer share teams and facilities, as do Claremont, Mudd, and Scripps. Other than that, they are separate colleges that happen to be close enough to make cross-registration and consortium-wide social life practical and not just a cool concept for a brochure.

For what it's worth, the campuses are pretty distinctive architecturally. I would also say the colleges each have their own sweet spot in terms of strengths and/or appeal.

There are valid reasons not to pick a Claremont College. Perhaps one doesn't care for warmer weather, for example (not trying to be sarcastic.) But the consortium itself is a strength.

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Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I really doubt that if you are talking about white students from the DMV, even with the athletics factor taken into account. Amherst is slightly bigger, 1970 or so to Pomona’s 1700 or so, and Amherst is 51% white (https://www.amherst.edu/admission/diversity) to Pomona’s 34% (https://www.pomona.edu/administration/diversity-pomona/facts-glance). Also, around 1/4 of each incoming class at Pomona is from California most years.

Amherst has 40% white domestic students. It’s athletes (data is I think 2017) are 74% white. Pomona has a high proportion of Asian students — I was referring to URMs.

Here's the data according to the recent CDS:

Amherst- 10% international, 15% Hispanic of any origin, 10% black, 39% white, 0.5% native american, 15% asian, 7.5% multiracial, 2% unknown
Pomona- 11% international, 16% Hispanic of any origin, 9% black, 34% white, 0.7% native american, 17% asian, 8% multiracial, 4% unknown

all in all, very much comparable in diversity if not indistinguishable. no major difference in Asians, URMs, etc.

Interesting (surprised the Asian percentage, especially, at Pomona is so low), but here’s the overall point: 35% of Amherst students are athletes and 70% or so of athletes are white. Even taking into account that a very small percentage of athletes are international students, most of the white domestic students at Amherst are varsity athletes. That’s perverse. Couple that with very, very strong URM recruiting (think about what a relatively rural place like Amherst has to do to get the numbers Pomona has), first gen whites, and geographically diverse whites, and your typical high stats, non-athlete white kid has almost no chance of RD admission (competing for the remaining 10% of spots in the entire class, when this is by far the largest applicant pool). My gut tells me Pomona would be a slightly easier admit for that type of student, where he or she might not be quite as squeezed out by Amherst’s dual and contradictory institutional priorities of athletics and URM recruitment. But I could be wrong — maybe admission to either school is near impossible.

Facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even as a consortium, the Claremont schools were too small for my student to consider. The Amherst area has thousands more college students.

In my experience, Amherst and UMass students barely interact or acknowledge one another. Amherst students tend to be snobby and insular about using the consortium. I can't find any numbers but I'd doubt that more than 25% of Amherst students ever take a class at the other schools.

The Claremont consortium is considerably more integrated. The percent of Pomona students cross-enrolling is in the 80% range by graduation. Dining halls are open to all even if you don't cross-enroll. Most organizations are multi-college or 5 College. The furthest distance walking from one campus to the other is 20 minutes. The walk from the bottom part of UMass to the top part of Amherst C, the closest of the schools, is 30 minutes.

Granted I went to UMASS 20+ years ago so who knows if it's still true, but I emphatically agree with this assessment. I regularly took classes at all the other schools and with students from all the other schools, except Amherst. I honestly can't think of a single Amherst student I even met during my time there. A guy from my hometown high school went there and I never ran into him once at a bar or grabbing pizza at Antonio's or anything, despite the Amherst campus being basically on top of all the downtown action.

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Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I suspect you have not been to Claremont. There is no comparison. The 5Cs are really on one campus. Crossing from Scripps to CMC to Pomona is like moving from one quad at UMASS to another part of campus. They share a library, sports teams, dining hall access, a bookstore etc. The Amherst consortium may have value, but they are not the same (I went to school in Claremont and just toured UMASS with one of my kids).

+1

Never said or implied that the Amherst consortium and Claremont are the same — was only responding to those saying the UMass one had no value. And, no, I have never been to Claremont. But the more I hear about Claremont, the line between “consortium” and “pleasantly laid out mid-size university with discrete residential areas” becomes blurred. Amherst really is a small liberal arts college. I would like to hear more about why Pomona is as well. At a certain point, methinks you can’t have your small liberal arts cake (Pomona!) and eat it too (5 fully-integrated colleges that are, as you say, “really on one campus”).

Amherst is not a suburb.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The above is true but I'm just going to state Claremont CA- the town itself- feels very different from anything else nearby. It is quintessentially an east coast college town with lush tree lined streets (to the point you can easily pinpoint it on a satellite map relative to surrounding areas) and a quaint village of numerous non-chain eateries and independent stores. Actually walkable and bikeable. Definitely not an authentic representation of what most of Southern California is like.

But still surrounded by the Inland Empire, which is just Surburban dredge.

They are different but assuming a kid knows what they like, any time spent off campus has good options in both locations. A kid going to Pomona isn't going to be looking to hang out in the suburb next door - they may be interested in San Gabriel Mtns nearby and the many other natural beauties in CA. A kid going to Amherst isn't going to be looking to hang out in Springfield or a farm next to campus either.

The whole point those of us have been making on location is that someone who CARES about the geographic location of one of these schools is not likely to choose the other. They both have their benefits.

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Anonymous wrote:Both great schools in very different settings. I don’t think there is any real similarity on the “5 college consortium” front. That’s a very loose consortium in the case of Amherst. Pomona and the other four Claremont consortium colleges border each other and kids are always on the others’ campuses for parties, or on the way to town, or for classes. There is a lot of cross-enrollment.

It’s also extremely difficult to get into Pomona from around here as an unhooked student. Your odds of acceptance are much lower than the already low acceptance rate would suggest. At Amherst, a significant portion of the students are athletes. This is not true a Pomona, though Pomona-Pitzer has some excellent teams.

I don’t agree with this at all in terms of the 5-college consortium: there is a free bus system, UMass is on the other side of downtown Amherst (you can walk), and it is easy to get to Mount Holyoke and Smith. There are several 5 college majors and programs, and advanced Amherst students have the opportunity to even take graduate classes at UMass. Also think about the intellectual synergy created by 5 colleges all within 15 minutes of each other in terms of lectures, activities, movies — everything. We are talking, “which famous person can I see speak at which college this week.” I cannot speak to Pomona, but that consortium does not have nearly the same critical mass of students.

Amherst has a ton of athletes (35-40%) and a big athlete divide (problems with them living together exclusively etc.) It is also very big on recruiting URMs. Since athletes are disproportionately white, it creates a very polarized dynamic. (Amherst got rid of legacy, but athletic recruiting favors whites way more than legacy, both in terms of sheer numbers and the magnitude of the admissions boost, so there is just a tad of hypocrisy there.).

From an admissions standpoint, Amherst is probably a tougher admit for white, non-athlete applicants than is Pomona, for the reasons stated…

I really doubt that if you are talking about white students from the DMV, even with the athletics factor taken into account. Amherst is slightly bigger, 1970 or so to Pomona’s 1700 or so, and Amherst is 51% white (https://www.amherst.edu/admission/diversity) to Pomona’s 34% (https://www.pomona.edu/administration/diversity-pomona/facts-glance). Also, around 1/4 of each incoming class at Pomona is from California most years.

Amherst has 40% white domestic students. It’s athletes (data is I think 2017) are 74% white. Pomona has a high proportion of Asian students — I was referring to URMs.

Here's the data according to the recent CDS:

Amherst- 10% international, 15% Hispanic of any origin, 10% black, 39% white, 0.5% native american, 15% asian, 7.5% multiracial, 2% unknown
Pomona- 11% international, 16% Hispanic of any origin, 9% black, 34% white, 0.7% native american, 17% asian, 8% multiracial, 4% unknown

all in all, very much comparable in diversity if not indistinguishable. no major difference in Asians, URMs, etc.

Interesting (surprised the Asian percentage, especially, at Pomona is so low), but here’s the overall point: 35% of Amherst students are athletes and 70% or so of athletes are white. Even taking into account that a very small percentage of athletes are international students, most of the white domestic students at Amherst are varsity athletes. That’s perverse. Couple that with very, very strong URM recruiting (think about what a relatively rural place like Amherst has to do to get the numbers Pomona has), first gen whites, and geographically diverse whites, and your typical high stats, non-athlete white kid has almost no chance of RD admission (competing for the remaining 10% of spots in the entire class, when this is by far the largest applicant pool). My gut tells me Pomona would be a slightly easier admit for that type of student, where he or she might not be quite as squeezed out by Amherst’s dual and contradictory institutional priorities of athletics and URM recruitment. But I could be wrong — maybe admission to either school is near impossible.

Amherst has seasons.