Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are quite a few who come out of it with a much better marriage. I stayed and we are very happy. We always had an active sex life and still do. I guess the type of cheating matters, the circumstances and the quality/love/happiness of the marriage prior to cheating. We lost ourselves in the kid heavy years and both carried some unexpressed resentment had communication issues—it was largely a byproduct of kids taking all our focus and the different ways we dealt with that. Spouse was deeply, deeply remorseful and did a ton of work and still lists it as his biggest regret in life. I’m not sure we would have addressed our issues and just kept chugging along growing more dissatisfied if the infidelity hadn’t cracked everything wide open. I would never want anyone to go through that because it is absolutely brutal, but we have a beautiful family and are very happy and I’m glad I ultimately didn’t leave. Of it happens again, I would leave and that is known as well as ways to communicate clearly if one of us is unhappy.

I know many marriages where there is no known cheating that are absolutely miserable and they basically live their own lives at empty nest. And many of these are the ones that judge others for their choices about staying in a happy marriage with great compatibility that happened to have infidelity at some point. There is a lot of harsh judgement for spouses that choose to stay. I saw an interview when Beyonce was discussing this with another celeb who had also chosen to work on the marriage. It's 2022, there is choice and lots of options. And nobody knows what goes on in anyone else's marriage. IT's like the 'victims' are 'revictimized' by public opinion and that doesn't even include the 'she must have not been putting or been a nag' or all the other BS they like to lay the blame on women for...and most often from other women!

You don't know if there is cheating or if there are other abuses going on. This would be the business set up which can be done if there isn't a lot of further abuse.

True. But I'd take the happier, compatible intimate couple that went through infidelity than the business like ones that can't stand each other and have nothing in common any day! Of course the former with zero infidelity is the dream, but with cheating rates reported as up to 60% on some surveys it's less realistic in a 50+year marriage.

I am in a sexless, roommate type marriage but we are amicable and I would trade it for a marriage that saw infidelity but worked through it and had passion again.

Cheating is only one of many ways you can hurt a marriage. Being rendered sexless is way worse in my opinion

Anonymous wrote:There are many ways to betray your spouse's confidence in a major way, and infidelity is but one of them. My husband has not cheated on me, but has done financial and other things that have created a serious rift in our marriage. He has ADHD/ASD, I can't trust him with finances, he refuses to medicate himself, and this is a serious matter.

But I don't want to divorce over it. As you correctly pointed out, why would *I* be the one to initiate costly divorce proceedings (because of course he'd fight me) only to end up with a lower HHI at the end because we need to support two households? To say nothing of finding a compatible partner later!

So no. My kids and I prefer to enjoy the economic and social benefits of staying as a family unit. This person I married is obviously not all bad, otherwise I would leave. He has his good sides. I prefer to take the good with the bad.

I'm in my 40s with teens. ALL the families I know are in this situation, more or less. There's always one spouse that isn't quite measuring up in one way or another, but the advantages of marriage outweigh the disadvantages.

aka I can’t afford to get a divorce! LOL!

people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Anonymous wrote:I think if you can find a way to be cordial and never have sex with the person again and live somewhat separately the way these no-sex marriages work that is safe and respectable if not fulfilling, it could maybe work out at least till the kids are out of the house. Have a new set of rules to follow about the marriage that both of you agree to and adhere to. I can't imagine living in fear or living a lie is healthy for anyone and it's rubbish to believe that someone cheating on you especially repeatedly actually still loves you. I think a lot of women miss the money but not the man if you are asking strictly about women.

Keep in mind "no-sex marriage" means that he continues to sleep with his AP.

Anonymous wrote:There are quite a few who come out of it with a much better marriage. I stayed and we are very happy. We always had an active sex life and still do. I guess the type of cheating matters, the circumstances and the quality/love/happiness of the marriage prior to cheating. We lost ourselves in the kid heavy years and both carried some unexpressed resentment had communication issues—it was largely a byproduct of kids taking all our focus and the different ways we dealt with that. Spouse was deeply, deeply remorseful and did a ton of work and still lists it as his biggest regret in life. I’m not sure we would have addressed our issues and just kept chugging along growing more dissatisfied if the infidelity hadn’t cracked everything wide open. I would never want anyone to go through that because it is absolutely brutal, but we have a beautiful family and are very happy and I’m glad I ultimately didn’t leave. Of it happens again, I would leave and that is known as well as ways to communicate clearly if one of us is unhappy.

This was like my story. My therapist has said there are way more of us, but it’s a secret thing in society so you only hear about the ones that split up or someone abandoned the family. It felt better to learn many people face it at some point in a long marriage. But it’s very isolating to go through because it’s not something you tend to confide in anyone if you plan to reconcile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are quite a few who come out of it with a much better marriage. I stayed and we are very happy. We always had an active sex life and still do. I guess the type of cheating matters, the circumstances and the quality/love/happiness of the marriage prior to cheating. We lost ourselves in the kid heavy years and both carried some unexpressed resentment had communication issues—it was largely a byproduct of kids taking all our focus and the different ways we dealt with that. Spouse was deeply, deeply remorseful and did a ton of work and still lists it as his biggest regret in life. I’m not sure we would have addressed our issues and just kept chugging along growing more dissatisfied if the infidelity hadn’t cracked everything wide open. I would never want anyone to go through that because it is absolutely brutal, but we have a beautiful family and are very happy and I’m glad I ultimately didn’t leave. Of it happens again, I would leave and that is known as well as ways to communicate clearly if one of us is unhappy.

How did you start the healing (?) process and how long did it take for the relationship to turn around (to start even slightly for the better of couple/family)? I was just told that one of my sibling is going through this right at this moment (brother-in-law may have started to see other woman)... I just could not come up with any good word to console her. From the way I (and even my husband) see it is that the brother-in-law has been sending multiple cues to her over the last few years that he is unhappy in the current situation (as a couple, first) and she flat out ignored those cues, believing relationship between them is smooth as before. There was no abuse or anything to speak of from either side but we know that what brother-in-law went through, especially during COVID, was mentally tough (I cannot blame him cuz we even felt what she did was unfair to him, no infidelity just emotional damage) and my sibling is now faced with the consequences.

As a woman, I sympathize with my sibling for living in a constant fear of losing him (so she thinks) and made to watch how he is becoming an untrustworthy spouse, but at the same time I do sympathize my brother-in-law for putting up with my sibling for the longest time we could remember. Of course, my sibling deeply regrets her actions and wants to work out the relationship with him.

This is the very first time the brother-in-law is behaving like this (first offense, sort of speak). And, we believe he is in the "honeymoon" period right now. I don't think initialing couples therapy and all that is useless at this particular timing because it just goes to a deaf ear and is one-way.

What would you suggest? I feel both sides of pain...

I’m the poster above. My situation was different because my husband had ended the affair already and confessed the day after. He wasn’t in a fog or conflicted. And, it still was awful. I immediately kicked him out for 2 weeks. I was in such shock and also very angry. I didn’t want to have a confrontation in front of our kids. He was very remorseful and full of regret. Infidelity/dishonesty was a deal breaker for me. I refused couples therapy. He did his work and kept showing up and being transparent and took on the bulk of the work on the home front which he still does years later. We had a very happy family and, unlike what you describe with your sibling, we always got along really well and we’re best friends. I’m not sure if I had a spouse that was in a fog or conflicted about what he wanted if I would have reconciled. It was about 6 months before I agreed to couples therapy. Things are really good now, but I still have triggers at times. He does everything possible to help avoid them. I really think it was a midlife/personal crisis which also gives me more confidence about the future, that it isn’t an ongoing character flaw. I have very strong emotions about cheating and always did. It’s not okay to ever do it.

Your sister is going through serious trauma right now and she didn’t deserve to be cheated on no matter what you think. You have no idea what went on in their home when you were not there to witness it. Often, the charming guy in public is not the same behind closed doors. People would surprise you. Be there for your sibling without judgement to support her and help in anyway you can. I’m sure she’s not sleeping and barely functioning at this point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought it was wrong how women hated Hilary Clinton for staying with Bill after cheating in a very public way. I thought feminism meant women had the *choice* to stay or go, and either choice was valid depending on a variety of factors—including what the woman wanted.

Sometimes the indiscretion is simply that: a mistake. Not everyone is a serial cheater.

If both parties still love each other and want a future together, there’s hope. And staying together to rebuild the marriage will ultimately make life easier: preserve wealth, preserve family unit.

I’ve never cheated or been cheated on, but I’ve watched marriages implode. Some have cheated in rather public ways insofar as the neighbors know about it. Some divorced; it seemed hard for the party that didn’t quickly find a new partner. Some worked through it; they seem happy.

I imagine I would feel miserable watching my partner with a new mate. I would hate watching my kids go off with them on vacations. I’d feel lonely and jealous. I definitely would not feel comfortable dating online and sleeping with singles who could have a STD. I definitely don’t want to worry about money or aging solo. Lots of reasons to stay married. Or at least try.

Bill cheated on her repeatedly though. I mean it’s still a choice but I don’t think they reconciled happily. Do they still live together?

You’re one of the haters who thinks your opinion matters more than Hilary’s feelings.

They seemingly live together and vacation together. We see pics every summer of them walking together on the beach.

I think they love each other. They seem well-matched.

Anonymous wrote:I always thought it was wrong how women hated Hilary Clinton for staying with Bill after cheating in a very public way. I thought feminism meant women had the *choice* to stay or go, and either choice was valid depending on a variety of factors—including what the woman wanted.

Sometimes the indiscretion is simply that: a mistake. Not everyone is a serial cheater.

If both parties still love each other and want a future together, there’s hope. And staying together to rebuild the marriage will ultimately make life easier: preserve wealth, preserve family unit.

I’ve never cheated or been cheated on, but I’ve watched marriages implode. Some have cheated in rather public ways insofar as the neighbors know about it. Some divorced; it seemed hard for the party that didn’t quickly find a new partner. Some worked through it; they seem happy.

I imagine I would feel miserable watching my partner with a new mate. I would hate watching my kids go off with them on vacations. I’d feel lonely and jealous. I definitely would not feel comfortable dating online and sleeping with singles who could have a STD. I definitely don’t want to worry about money or aging solo. Lots of reasons to stay married. Or at least try.

Bill cheated on her repeatedly though. I mean it’s still a choice but I don’t think they reconciled happily. Do they still live together?

I always thought it was wrong how women hated Hilary Clinton for staying with Bill after cheating in a very public way. I thought feminism meant women had the *choice* to stay or go, and either choice was valid depending on a variety of factors—including what the woman wanted.

Sometimes the indiscretion is simply that: a mistake. Not everyone is a serial cheater.

If both parties still love each other and want a future together, there’s hope. And staying together to rebuild the marriage will ultimately make life easier: preserve wealth, preserve family unit.

I’ve never cheated or been cheated on, but I’ve watched marriages implode. Some have cheated in rather public ways insofar as the neighbors know about it. Some divorced; it seemed hard for the party that didn’t quickly find a new partner. Some worked through it; they seem happy.

I imagine I would feel miserable watching my partner with a new mate. I would hate watching my kids go off with them on vacations. I’d feel lonely and jealous. I definitely would not feel comfortable dating online and sleeping with singles who could have a STD. I definitely don’t want to worry about money or aging solo. Lots of reasons to stay married. Or at least try.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you can find a way to be cordial and never have sex with the person again and live somewhat separately the way these no-sex marriages work that is safe and respectable if not fulfilling, it could maybe work out at least till the kids are out of the house. Have a new set of rules to follow about the marriage that both of you agree to and adhere to. I can't imagine living in fear or living a lie is healthy for anyone and it's rubbish to believe that someone cheating on you especially repeatedly actually still loves you. I think a lot of women miss the money but not the man if you are asking strictly about women.

Many guys who claims they do not have sex with their wife have PLENTY of sex with their wife.

Many women who divorce over infidelity regret it.

My ex husband and I did not have sex for 7 years. Sometimes it is true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are quite a few who come out of it with a much better marriage. I stayed and we are very happy. We always had an active sex life and still do. I guess the type of cheating matters, the circumstances and the quality/love/happiness of the marriage prior to cheating. We lost ourselves in the kid heavy years and both carried some unexpressed resentment had communication issues—it was largely a byproduct of kids taking all our focus and the different ways we dealt with that. Spouse was deeply, deeply remorseful and did a ton of work and still lists it as his biggest regret in life. I’m not sure we would have addressed our issues and just kept chugging along growing more dissatisfied if the infidelity hadn’t cracked everything wide open. I would never want anyone to go through that because it is absolutely brutal, but we have a beautiful family and are very happy and I’m glad I ultimately didn’t leave. Of it happens again, I would leave and that is known as well as ways to communicate clearly if one of us is unhappy.

How did you start the healing (?) process and how long did it take for the relationship to turn around (to start even slightly for the better of couple/family)? I was just told that one of my sibling is going through this right at this moment (brother-in-law may have started to see other woman)... I just could not come up with any good word to console her. From the way I (and even my husband) see it is that the brother-in-law has been sending multiple cues to her over the last few years that he is unhappy in the current situation (as a couple, first) and she flat out ignored those cues, believing relationship between them is smooth as before. There was no abuse or anything to speak of from either side but we know that what brother-in-law went through, especially during COVID, was mentally tough (I cannot blame him cuz we even felt what she did was unfair to him, no infidelity just emotional damage) and my sibling is now faced with the consequences.

As a woman, I sympathize with my sibling for living in a constant fear of losing him (so she thinks) and made to watch how he is becoming an untrustworthy spouse, but at the same time I do sympathize my brother-in-law for putting up with my sibling for the longest time we could remember. Of course, my sibling deeply regrets her actions and wants to work out the relationship with him.

This is the very first time the brother-in-law is behaving like this (first offense, sort of speak). And, we believe he is in the "honeymoon" period right now. I don't think initialing couples therapy and all that is useless at this particular timing because it just goes to a deaf ear and is one-way.

What would you suggest? I feel both sides of pain...

Former betrayed wife who has reconciled here . . .

You're right that couple's therapy is a waste at this point. They have to both be committed and the cheater needs to be willing to do the heavy lifting.

It's very natural for your sibling to want to secure her husband, so to speak. As in, it's an actual primal instinct designed to make sure the young you've had with your mate aren't abandoned. One of the many reasons that cheating sucks is that is not only have you been cheated on, but now your partner is sitting there all high and mighty with two potential partners to choose from, while you've maybe got one or, depending on what he decides, zero. It's natural to want to flip that around and become the person with the choice(s) again.

But you have to live in reality. A relationship is a two way street and you can't force someone, even your spouse, to want to be with you. And in fact, doing the "pick me dance" just makes you LESS appealing in the cheater's eyes. There are many reasons why it's best to detach and start moving forward as though the marriage can't be saved. It may wake up the cheater and they'll put in their best effort to fixing things. Or it may not, in which case you've already started focusing on yourself. There's no downside to it. It's just hard to convince your primal urges to take a back seat.

It sounds like you sympathize with your BIL, probably based on seeing how your sibling acted and treated him all these years. Just remember that he had agency to speak up, move out, lay down boundaries, etc. An affair is NOT an understandable or rational response to things not being great in a marriage. Your sibling has been traumatized by his actions and you should focus on supporting her. Part of that is supporting her in becoming a healthy person who treats other people well (and that includes not trying to force an unwilling cheater to reconcile with you). But your angle needs to be because she deserves someone who isn't running in the opposite direction from her, not that she's paying for prior crimes.

To answer your original question, my husband was in "the fog" for a few days at most. He claimed it was just an emotional affair, which gave him cover to act indignant and like I was making a big deal over nothing. As the days passed and I was like, "Um, you do actually need to unfriend her" and I required he let me see his phone (and then found out it was a physical affair), he suddenly realized he was in deep sh*t. Meanwhile I had gone from somewhat understanding to outraged. So over the course of about two weeks he went from indignant and obnoxious to terrified and scrambling. But it still took a long time (better part of a year) for him to get into therapy and get past his most basic defenses against shame. In the meantime, at least he was really invested in saving the marriage and following me around like a sad puppy.

Actually I didn’t have a choice. Initially she begged me to stay and work it out and I stupidly agreed. But you see they carried on with the affair while we supposed to be reconciling. That was the clever part because she could leave thinking that we’d tried to work it out.
Regrets ? My regret is that we were married in the first place and had kids. Having kids means you will never be ‘free’ of them.
But so glad that at least I don’t have to deal with her as my wife and it’s just business now

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are quite a few who come out of it with a much better marriage. I stayed and we are very happy. We always had an active sex life and still do. I guess the type of cheating matters, the circumstances and the quality/love/happiness of the marriage prior to cheating. We lost ourselves in the kid heavy years and both carried some unexpressed resentment had communication issues—it was largely a byproduct of kids taking all our focus and the different ways we dealt with that. Spouse was deeply, deeply remorseful and did a ton of work and still lists it as his biggest regret in life. I’m not sure we would have addressed our issues and just kept chugging along growing more dissatisfied if the infidelity hadn’t cracked everything wide open. I would never want anyone to go through that because it is absolutely brutal, but we have a beautiful family and are very happy and I’m glad I ultimately didn’t leave. Of it happens again, I would leave and that is known as well as ways to communicate clearly if one of us is unhappy.

How did you start the healing (?) process and how long did it take for the relationship to turn around (to start even slightly for the better of couple/family)? I was just told that one of my sibling is going through this right at this moment (brother-in-law may have started to see other woman)... I just could not come up with any good word to console her. From the way I (and even my husband) see it is that the brother-in-law has been sending multiple cues to her over the last few years that he is unhappy in the current situation (as a couple, first) and she flat out ignored those cues, believing relationship between them is smooth as before. There was no abuse or anything to speak of from either side but we know that what brother-in-law went through, especially during COVID, was mentally tough (I cannot blame him cuz we even felt what she did was unfair to him, no infidelity just emotional damage) and my sibling is now faced with the consequences.

As a woman, I sympathize with my sibling for living in a constant fear of losing him (so she thinks) and made to watch how he is becoming an untrustworthy spouse, but at the same time I do sympathize my brother-in-law for putting up with my sibling for the longest time we could remember. Of course, my sibling deeply regrets her actions and wants to work out the relationship with him.

This is the very first time the brother-in-law is behaving like this (first offense, sort of speak). And, we believe he is in the "honeymoon" period right now. I don't think initialing couples therapy and all that is useless at this particular timing because it just goes to a deaf ear and is one-way.

What would you suggest? I feel both sides of pain...

What did BIL go through during Covid ? And what was awful that your sister did?