Anonymous wrote:At the heart of her administration/campaign is the fact that she and her followers are “victims.” This is the core of rightwing ideology.

The part where you know she’s full of sh#t? When she says she can’t be a “Christian mother”….in Italy. 😂

I mean, it’s just all so ridiculous. Just let people live their lives. The family is not “under attack.” Identity - gender or otherwise - is not “under attack.” At the heart of this thinking is “I’m a victim” status. I fear for anyone in Italy who is not part of her constituency of supporters.

and she has a child out of wedlock and she is living with a partner she is not married with. so much for traditional family values.

We don't live in a consequence-free world. The Italians should and would bear the full brunt of their electoral choices. Right wingers don't know how to govern and , there's a part of me that believes they know it. So, what do they do to mask their congenital imcompetence ? They resort to victimhood and bigotry which they know abounds in their society.

If past is prologue, this government won't last . Expect the usual from right wingers ( self dealing, corruption, rule breaking etc) . At this time next year, the Italian economy won't be noticeably better off. If anything, it could get quite worse. Tourism made up close to 11% of Italy's GDP pre-pandemic—a huge chunk of that tourism includes americans— who tend not to be the trump sticker, pick up truck driving kind . But rather the cosmopolitan, college educated, left leaning type. I'm not sure if 'we just elected a fascist' could pass as a successful tourism selling point .

Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer.

G.K. Chesterton and Giorgia Meloni -

Brava Italia!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has she won yet?

Yes she did. Her party is the first party snd her coalition will have the absolute majority in both chambers. I just hope they don’t get a high enough majority to change the constitution (I am Italian). She is a post fascist who won also because she was the only party in the opposition in the last two years snd people are angry due to economic problems Italy has. Ironically, parties in her coalition are economically irresponsible and if they do what they promised, Italy will go down like Argentina, making things even worse for the people who voted them. The other two are Salvini’s Lega party and Berlusconi’s (Forza Italia party), both of whom are in Putins pocket (Berlusconi just a few days ago stated in an interview that Putin did not really want the war, he was pushed by the Russian people what really wanted it and he just meant to go three days to Kyev, remove Zelensky and help a new government of “good people “ govern Ukraine so he is a nice guy and this is not is fault).
In the last few years several protest party went to power (see the 5 stars movement 5 years ago) but they actually try to govern, they can’t keep alll the crazy promises they make and they lose consensus and then when we are on the brink of economic collapse’, a respected technocrat is called in to lead a large coalition government, see Monti 10 years ago and then Draghi two years ago. With a new election law that gives a premium to the winning coalition, Meloni’s coalition will have the absolute majority in parliament and in theory should be able to govern without the usual give snd take. The parties in the coalition itself are not friends snd there will be a lot of infighting. Let’s see what happens

My fear is the economy going down the drain seriously (like Italy out of her euro and the break up of the EU), Italy becoming politically a new Hungary and a fifth column of Putin, especially with respect to the war in Ukraine (although meloni herself has claimed repeatedly to be staunchly on the side of Ukraine, let’s see how long that last, Salvini and Berlusconi are unabashedly per Putin), and Meloni’s government attacking the usual scapegoats (Roma people, immigrants, LGTB people (“lobby” as Meloni has already said) when it cannot deliver on the crazy promises and people are upset.

So as an Italian and as a woman I am not happy.

My ex worked for a PD deputato from Tuscany. Pd is seriously broken.

Bloomberg has already covered this but FdI will not pull out of the euro. Italy does have massive economic problems but Unlike the UK, most of the Italian right understands (like orban does) the value of being in the eu.

I do think Italy will increase naval patrols in the med and actively use lethal force to stop boats from Africa from landing.

due to demographics and not wanting the “wrong foreigners” I can see the right trying to attract Italian Americans to try to move to Italy in quicker and larger numbers in the future

I have family living in Italy (non-white) but well off (150-200k euro per year salary) and they say it’s not that much different day to day than living in Netherlands in terms of racism/micro aggressions.

Azione and Viva would be better for the country but that won’t happen until boomers die off.

Why the hell would so-called italian americans sudddenly move to italy ? I'm confused.

Italy is the home of fascism, the illiberal Vatican, and the evil that was the Roman Empire. Did anyone think that Italians would be anything but frothing at the mouth reactionaries? They’ve simply shown their true colors.

At the heart of her administration/campaign is the fact that she and her followers are “victims.” This is the core of rightwing ideology.

The part where you know she’s full of sh#t? When she says she can’t be a “Christian mother”….in Italy. 😂

I mean, it’s just all so ridiculous. Just let people live their lives. The family is not “under attack.” Identity - gender or otherwise - is not “under attack.” At the heart of this thinking is “I’m a victim” status. I fear for anyone in Italy who is not part of her constituency of supporters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean firstly because she’s not PM of anything yet.

Then there’s the fact that she’s a pretty awful human having nothing to do with her political views— she doxxed a rape victim, for example.

And then finally, Europe has more impressive female leaders. No one needs to scrape the bottom of the barrel like this to find people to admire there.

G7 leaders?

Yes? PM of the UK is a woman and Germany was led by a woman for fifteen years. The EU is considered part of the G7 and is also led by a woman. All of these women are much more impressive than the not-yet-elected fascist who might run Italy. What is it about her you think people should be impressed by, compared to the women who have legitimate accomplishments and don’t release video of women being raped?

Well said

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has she won yet?

Yes she did. Her party is the first party snd her coalition will have the absolute majority in both chambers. I just hope they don’t get a high enough majority to change the constitution (I am Italian). She is a post fascist who won also because she was the only party in the opposition in the last two years snd people are angry due to economic problems Italy has. Ironically, parties in her coalition are economically irresponsible and if they do what they promised, Italy will go down like Argentina, making things even worse for the people who voted them. The other two are Salvini’s Lega party and Berlusconi’s (Forza Italia party), both of whom are in Putins pocket (Berlusconi just a few days ago stated in an interview that Putin did not really want the war, he was pushed by the Russian people what really wanted it and he just meant to go three days to Kyev, remove Zelensky and help a new government of “good people “ govern Ukraine so he is a nice guy and this is not is fault).
In the last few years several protest party went to power (see the 5 stars movement 5 years ago) but they actually try to govern, they can’t keep alll the crazy promises they make and they lose consensus and then when we are on the brink of economic collapse’, a respected technocrat is called in to lead a large coalition government, see Monti 10 years ago and then Draghi two years ago. With a new election law that gives a premium to the winning coalition, Meloni’s coalition will have the absolute majority in parliament and in theory should be able to govern without the usual give snd take. The parties in the coalition itself are not friends snd there will be a lot of infighting. Let’s see what happens

My fear is the economy going down the drain seriously (like Italy out of her euro and the break up of the EU), Italy becoming politically a new Hungary and a fifth column of Putin, especially with respect to the war in Ukraine (although meloni herself has claimed repeatedly to be staunchly on the side of Ukraine, let’s see how long that last, Salvini and Berlusconi are unabashedly per Putin), and Meloni’s government attacking the usual scapegoats (Roma people, immigrants, LGTB people (“lobby” as Meloni has already said) when it cannot deliver on the crazy promises and people are upset.

So as an Italian and as a woman I am not happy.

Thank you for the concise explanation, PP. I hope she doesn't go down the same path as Orban in Hungary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She came from really humble roots. She speaks in an uncultured accent.

She about to become pm of a g7 country.

Nothing was ever really handed to her. She “leans in”

Interesting that she isn’t being championed as a “girl boss” just because she has different political views

Because she's a feckin Fascist. Like, openly Fascist. Jesus.

That’s for Italy to decide if they want to follow that path or not as long as votes aren’t tampered with during elections.

Is she running a sham election or taking over the country with an army?

I dont support her politics, but i also dont support not letting her air her views in public discourse

Except of course the original question wasn’t “do you think we should let fascists run for election, given that they don’t believe in following democratic norms” — which might be an interesting question— but “why aren’t people calling her role model for women” — which isn’t.

All women have to hold the same views?

Maybe she thinks her views are best for women?

LOL She's a fascist who doesn't think any other views should be allowed.

Given that the left calls anyone who doesn't agree with their progressive ideas "fascist," I am assuming she is conservative, moderate, probably reasonable and sensible.

+1. At this point when i see a beltway liberal call someone a “fascist”, I assume that they are a great person. This woman winning is another L for the liberal world order, which will come crashing down in due time.

I am not sure why it is so hard for you to understand. She is a post- fascist. She comes out of the fold of the old Movimento Sociale, a far right political party created after WWII that was expressly and openly a post fascist party (reconstructing thr fascist party is a crime in Italy so nobody can create a party with that name. Movimento Sociale was not fascist in name but in substance, it’s members often used the fascist salute and so on). The symbol of Melonis party still has the design of the flame with the colors of the Italian flag, which was the symbol of Movimento Sociale and she has refused to remove it. The core base of her movement comes from the same tradition, officers have been filmed doing the fascist salute and so on. She has cleaned up her image but this si who she is. In her case, being called post fascist is not an insult, it’s just a description of which, until the recent clean up, she would be proud.

The sad part is that she may even be the least bad part of her coalition, salvini and berlusconi may be even worse (without being fascist). Italy has significant economic problems and some of the promises done by parties in her coalition (1000 euro pensions to all older women who never worked outside of the house snd never paid into the pension fund, salvini’s and berlusconi’s promise of a flat tax) would lead Italy to bankruptcy. Also Meloni has expressed support for Ukraine while salvini and berlusconi are clearly in Putin’s pocket)

Anyway, if you are happy that the liberal works order comes down and is replaced by Putin’s and China’s style of regimes, then I see why you are happy. But be careful for what you wish for, in Russia the elite is falling down windows at an alarming rate while peones are try to reach the closer border not to become cannon fodder……

She’ll do the same thing for the Italian economy as Orban — her hero — did for Hungary, using the same tried and true rightwing neofascist tactics. Scapegoating the “Other” Christian nativism. No wonder the Putin shills on here prattle on about “leftists” when downplaying who she is and the danger to democracy she represents. Making Mussolini Great Again.

I don’t like hashtags but she’s going to do great things for Italy.

If Meloni is a #girlboss, does that make Ursula der Leyen is #bossbabe?

is Liz Truss a #baddie?

Seriously, OP are you 15? I guess kudos for teens paying attention to world events.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has she won yet?

Yes she did. Her party is the first party snd her coalition will have the absolute majority in both chambers. I just hope they don’t get a high enough majority to change the constitution (I am Italian). She is a post fascist who won also because she was the only party in the opposition in the last two years snd people are angry due to economic problems Italy has. Ironically, parties in her coalition are economically irresponsible and if they do what they promised, Italy will go down like Argentina, making things even worse for the people who voted them. The other two are Salvini’s Lega party and Berlusconi’s (Forza Italia party), both of whom are in Putins pocket (Berlusconi just a few days ago stated in an interview that Putin did not really want the war, he was pushed by the Russian people what really wanted it and he just meant to go three days to Kyev, remove Zelensky and help a new government of “good people “ govern Ukraine so he is a nice guy and this is not is fault).
In the last few years several protest party went to power (see the 5 stars movement 5 years ago) but they actually try to govern, they can’t keep alll the crazy promises they make and they lose consensus and then when we are on the brink of economic collapse’, a respected technocrat is called in to lead a large coalition government, see Monti 10 years ago and then Draghi two years ago. With a new election law that gives a premium to the winning coalition, Meloni’s coalition will have the absolute majority in parliament and in theory should be able to govern without the usual give snd take. The parties in the coalition itself are not friends snd there will be a lot of infighting. Let’s see what happens

My fear is the economy going down the drain seriously (like Italy out of her euro and the break up of the EU), Italy becoming politically a new Hungary and a fifth column of Putin, especially with respect to the war in Ukraine (although meloni herself has claimed repeatedly to be staunchly on the side of Ukraine, let’s see how long that last, Salvini and Berlusconi are unabashedly per Putin), and Meloni’s government attacking the usual scapegoats (Roma people, immigrants, LGTB people (“lobby” as Meloni has already said) when it cannot deliver on the crazy promises and people are upset.

So as an Italian and as a woman I am not happy.

My ex worked for a PD deputato from Tuscany. Pd is seriously broken.

Bloomberg has already covered this but FdI will not pull out of the euro. Italy does have massive economic problems but Unlike the UK, most of the Italian right understands (like orban does) the value of being in the eu.

I do think Italy will increase naval patrols in the med and actively use lethal force to stop boats from Africa from landing.

due to demographics and not wanting the “wrong foreigners” I can see the right trying to attract Italian Americans to try to move to Italy in quicker and larger numbers in the future

I have family living in Italy (non-white) but well off (150-200k euro per year salary) and they say it’s not that much different day to day than living in Netherlands in terms of racism/micro aggressions.

Azione and Viva would be better for the country but that won’t happen until boomers die off.

sorry but this is ridiculous. how many Italian Americans are willing to go to Italy to pick up tomatoes for 10 euros a day, or work in restaurants and being paid off the book 4 hours when they have worked 8 (and not being paid at all), or care of an elderly person with Alzheimer around the clock with Sunday off if they are lucky for 900 euro a month? because your relatives make 200K a year do you think this is the norm for immigrants to Italy? that's a super salary for Italian standards. yes, there are expats who do well, but the bulk of the million of immigrants in Italy are from poor Eastern European countries (lots of Albanians, Rumenians and Ukranians, especially in construction, janitorial and elder care) from Africa (both North Africa and sub-saharian Africa) and most recently from Pakistan, Bangladesh and similar countries. in italy salaries are not high for American standards, taxes are high and the situation has worsened with the Euro, since now Italy cannot just devalue the currency as it routinely did with the lira). there is a lot of exploitation and working off the books, even for Italians, and immigrants take the worse jobs. This is like when Trump said that he wanted more Norwegians to immigrate to the US and less people from poor countries and Norwegians loughed in his face, they are too rich to come to the US to work in meat packing plants. I

the idea of the navy patrols is also ridiculous. Italy actually did it years ago, when scores of Albanians were coming by boats. it is really not possible to block boats, its not like stopping a car on a highway. even more difficult when the boats are driven by smugglers who dont care about obeying the rules and once a boat with hundreds of migrants refused to stop, tried to pass and sank, killing hundreds of people. the reality is that you cannot shot at a boat with civilians, that would be a crime. so you can patrol all you want but you cannot shot and sink the boat. the idea of sending the navy against the migrants is just rethoric, throwing red meat to the base while you are unable to govern and actually improve your voters' lives. This is typical of Salvini, he goes around saying these things but when you was interior minister, he did nothing.

the right does not want to leave the Euro (the Lega party did have some anti euro rethoric until the day Brexit happened, then there was a gigantic backpedaling) because they know well that that would likely lead to the break up of the EU an Italy would be fu$$ed. however, while Melone has tried to reassure the merkets that she will be fiscally responsible, her allies Lega and FI have clearly indiacted that they intend to run again the deficit up. the trend in the past government with Bossi/Salvini and with Berlusconi has been of irresponsible spending. they plan is just to blame the EU for being mean (like the British when they tried to blame the EU for the s$hitshow of Brexit). so while they do not want to leane the euro, their policies in favor of high spending and favoring tax evasion may bankrupt the country and lead to that result.

and when things get bad, fascists get violent. so, we will see.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has she won yet?

Yes she did. Her party is the first party snd her coalition will have the absolute majority in both chambers. I just hope they don’t get a high enough majority to change the constitution (I am Italian). She is a post fascist who won also because she was the only party in the opposition in the last two years snd people are angry due to economic problems Italy has. Ironically, parties in her coalition are economically irresponsible and if they do what they promised, Italy will go down like Argentina, making things even worse for the people who voted them. The other two are Salvini’s Lega party and Berlusconi’s (Forza Italia party), both of whom are in Putins pocket (Berlusconi just a few days ago stated in an interview that Putin did not really want the war, he was pushed by the Russian people what really wanted it and he just meant to go three days to Kyev, remove Zelensky and help a new government of “good people “ govern Ukraine so he is a nice guy and this is not is fault).
In the last few years several protest party went to power (see the 5 stars movement 5 years ago) but they actually try to govern, they can’t keep alll the crazy promises they make and they lose consensus and then when we are on the brink of economic collapse’, a respected technocrat is called in to lead a large coalition government, see Monti 10 years ago and then Draghi two years ago. With a new election law that gives a premium to the winning coalition, Meloni’s coalition will have the absolute majority in parliament and in theory should be able to govern without the usual give snd take. The parties in the coalition itself are not friends snd there will be a lot of infighting. Let’s see what happens

My fear is the economy going down the drain seriously (like Italy out of her euro and the break up of the EU), Italy becoming politically a new Hungary and a fifth column of Putin, especially with respect to the war in Ukraine (although meloni herself has claimed repeatedly to be staunchly on the side of Ukraine, let’s see how long that last, Salvini and Berlusconi are unabashedly per Putin), and Meloni’s government attacking the usual scapegoats (Roma people, immigrants, LGTB people (“lobby” as Meloni has already said) when it cannot deliver on the crazy promises and people are upset.

So as an Italian and as a woman I am not happy.

My ex worked for a PD deputato from Tuscany. Pd is seriously broken.

Bloomberg has already covered this but FdI will not pull out of the euro. Italy does have massive economic problems but Unlike the UK, most of the Italian right understands (like orban does) the value of being in the eu.

I do think Italy will increase naval patrols in the med and actively use lethal force to stop boats from Africa from landing.

due to demographics and not wanting the “wrong foreigners” I can see the right trying to attract Italian Americans to try to move to Italy in quicker and larger numbers in the future

I have family living in Italy (non-white) but well off (150-200k euro per year salary) and they say it’s not that much different day to day than living in Netherlands in terms of racism/micro aggressions.

Azione and Viva would be better for the country but that won’t happen until boomers die off.

Anonymous wrote:Has she won yet?

Yes she did. Her party is the first party snd her coalition will have the absolute majority in both chambers. I just hope they don’t get a high enough majority to change the constitution (I am Italian). She is a post fascist who won also because she was the only party in the opposition in the last two years snd people are angry due to economic problems Italy has. Ironically, parties in her coalition are economically irresponsible and if they do what they promised, Italy will go down like Argentina, making things even worse for the people who voted them. The other two are Salvini’s Lega party and Berlusconi’s (Forza Italia party), both of whom are in Putins pocket (Berlusconi just a few days ago stated in an interview that Putin did not really want the war, he was pushed by the Russian people what really wanted it and he just meant to go three days to Kyev, remove Zelensky and help a new government of “good people “ govern Ukraine so he is a nice guy and this is not is fault).
In the last few years several protest party went to power (see the 5 stars movement 5 years ago) but they actually try to govern, they can’t keep alll the crazy promises they make and they lose consensus and then when we are on the brink of economic collapse’, a respected technocrat is called in to lead a large coalition government, see Monti 10 years ago and then Draghi two years ago. With a new election law that gives a premium to the winning coalition, Meloni’s coalition will have the absolute majority in parliament and in theory should be able to govern without the usual give snd take. The parties in the coalition itself are not friends snd there will be a lot of infighting. Let’s see what happens

My fear is the economy going down the drain seriously (like Italy out of her euro and the break up of the EU), Italy becoming politically a new Hungary and a fifth column of Putin, especially with respect to the war in Ukraine (although meloni herself has claimed repeatedly to be staunchly on the side of Ukraine, let’s see how long that last, Salvini and Berlusconi are unabashedly per Putin), and Meloni’s government attacking the usual scapegoats (Roma people, immigrants, LGTB people (“lobby” as Meloni has already said) when it cannot deliver on the crazy promises and people are upset.

So as an Italian and as a woman I am not happy.