Anonymous
09/23/2022 16:20
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:As someone who's actually worked in law school admissions, I can confidently say that for the vast majority of law schools, undergrad institution is irrelevant maybe 98 percent of the time. The only times it mattered:
- If someone has a strong LSAT but mediocre grades, we'd be more likely to accept them if the grades were from a top institution.
- If someone has great grades but a mediocre LSAT, we'd be less likely to take them if their grades were from a nonselective institution.
Otherwise, law schools care only about two things: 1) maximizing LSAT/GPA medians for the rankings; 2) ensuring that admitted students have the skills to pass the bar, which increases pass rates, which helps in the rankings. My experience was at a good but not T14 law school, but my impression is that things are more or less the same at T14s except that they are less concerned with #2 because they are admitting students with high enough stats that they don't have to be concerned about it. The only exceptions might be Yale and Stanford, which have a more holistic admissions process where great stats aren't enough.
While law school admissions officers may not care about undergraduate school attended by an applicant for admissions purposes, the undergraduate school learning environment may result in higher LSAT scores due to a high level of academic expectations/demands and due to the high level of competition during one's undergraduate years. Competing with the best should make one perform well as well as better than if competing in a lesser academic environment.
While freely admitting that I’m dealing with an entirely insignificant sample size, I’ve always thought that the LSAT pretty much tests how much people already think like a lawyer.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 16:20
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t really matter where you to go to college for the top law schools, grades and lsat scores are all they care about. The top law schools accept students for a wide range of schools.
It also isn't surprising that undergraduate institutions that select for high standardized test scores would have more students who do well on standardized tests.
It will be interesting to see if that changes over time now that the top undergraduate schools have a significant % of the student body that were admitted test optional.
Bowdoin has been test optional for a long time and its median SAT scores are lower than comparable SLACs.
Bowdoin selects academically superior students on the basis of more than just a standardized test score. And the standardized test scores reported by Bowdoin College are still quite high compared to national averages and national medians.
I was responding to the part I had bolded. I agree with your point.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:49
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Then why aren't more mediocre college graduates making it to these law schools?
More graduates from mediocre schools aren't making it to the top 14 law schools probably due to the learning environment at more competitive undergraduate schools which provides a higher level of competition and more demanding academic expectations. Highly intelligent, driven, competitive students tend to attend the most selective undergraduate schools.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:44
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:During Covid pandemic, a shortened online remotley proctored version of the LSAT was given (LSAT flex).
The median LSAT score for accepted applicants to the top 16 law schools was:
1) Yale--173 median LSAT score for the class of 2023
2) Stanford--171
3) Harvard--173
4) Columbia--172
5) Chicago--171
6) NYU--170
7) U Penn--170
8) Virginia--170
9) Northwestern--169
10) Michigan--169
11) UCal-Berkeley--169
12) Duke--169
13) Cornell--168
14) Georgetown--168
15) UCLA--169
16) Texas--168
I would be curious to see the source for this. I recall seeing a similar list long ago, but when I drilled down it only included schools with more than some threshold of matriculants, thus biasing against the smaller colleges.
I think that you misunderstand the list. The list of 16 law school LSAT median scores for the law school class of 2023 was supplied by the named law schools.
Yes, I did. From the title of the thread I thought these were undergrad feeders.
Yes, the initial post in this thread referred to undergraduate feeder schools to top 14 law schools. But the list that you responded to was a list of law schools.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:42
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:During Covid pandemic, a shortened online remotley proctored version of the LSAT was given (LSAT flex).
The median LSAT score for accepted applicants to the top 16 law schools was:
1) Yale--173 median LSAT score for the class of 2023
2) Stanford--171
3) Harvard--173
4) Columbia--172
5) Chicago--171
6) NYU--170
7) U Penn--170
8) Virginia--170
9) Northwestern--169
10) Michigan--169
11) UCal-Berkeley--169
12) Duke--169
13) Cornell--168
14) Georgetown--168
15) UCLA--169
16) Texas--168
2022 is higher
https://7sage.com/top-law-school-admissions/
My understanding is that the "LSAT flex"--an online, remotely proctored version of the LSAT--produced unusually high scores. Not sure how the LSAT flex was scored compared toprior non-flex versions. Also, not sure, but I recall reading that the LSAT flex was a shortened version of the standard LSAT. Anyone know if this is correct ?
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:39
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:During Covid pandemic, a shortened online remotley proctored version of the LSAT was given (LSAT flex).
The median LSAT score for accepted applicants to the top 16 law schools was:
1) Yale--173 median LSAT score for the class of 2023
2) Stanford--171
3) Harvard--173
4) Columbia--172
5) Chicago--171
6) NYU--170
7) U Penn--170
8) Virginia--170
9) Northwestern--169
10) Michigan--169
11) UCal-Berkeley--169
12) Duke--169
13) Cornell--168
14) Georgetown--168
15) UCLA--169
16) Texas--168
I would be curious to see the source for this. I recall seeing a similar list long ago, but when I drilled down it only included schools with more than some threshold of matriculants, thus biasing against the smaller colleges.
I think that you misunderstand the list. The list of 16 law school LSAT median scores for the law school class of 2023 was supplied by the named law schools.
Yes, I did. From the title of the thread I thought these were undergrad feeders.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:37
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:During Covid pandemic, a shortened online remotley proctored version of the LSAT was given (LSAT flex).
The median LSAT score for accepted applicants to the top 16 law schools was:
1) Yale--173 median LSAT score for the class of 2023
2) Stanford--171
3) Harvard--173
4) Columbia--172
5) Chicago--171
6) NYU--170
7) U Penn--170
8) Virginia--170
9) Northwestern--169
10) Michigan--169
11) UCal-Berkeley--169
12) Duke--169
13) Cornell--168
14) Georgetown--168
15) UCLA--169
16) Texas--168
I would be curious to see the source for this. I recall seeing a similar list long ago, but when I drilled down it only included schools with more than some threshold of matriculants, thus biasing against the smaller colleges.
Oops I misread. Thought this was one of those lists of lsat scores by undergrad institution.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:37
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:During Covid pandemic, a shortened online remotley proctored version of the LSAT was given (LSAT flex).
The median LSAT score for accepted applicants to the top 16 law schools was:
1) Yale--173 median LSAT score for the class of 2023
2) Stanford--171
3) Harvard--173
4) Columbia--172
5) Chicago--171
6) NYU--170
7) U Penn--170
8) Virginia--170
9) Northwestern--169
10) Michigan--169
11) UCal-Berkeley--169
12) Duke--169
13) Cornell--168
14) Georgetown--168
15) UCLA--169
16) Texas--168
I would be curious to see the source for this. I recall seeing a similar list long ago, but when I drilled down it only included schools with more than some threshold of matriculants, thus biasing against the smaller colleges.
I think that you misunderstand the list. The list of 16 law school LSAT median scores for the law school class of 2023 was supplied by the named law schools.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:35
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:As someone who's actually worked in law school admissions, I can confidently say that for the vast majority of law schools, undergrad institution is irrelevant maybe 98 percent of the time. The only times it mattered:
- If someone has a strong LSAT but mediocre grades, we'd be more likely to accept them if the grades were from a top institution.
- If someone has great grades but a mediocre LSAT, we'd be less likely to take them if their grades were from a nonselective institution.
Otherwise, law schools care only about two things: 1) maximizing LSAT/GPA medians for the rankings; 2) ensuring that admitted students have the skills to pass the bar, which increases pass rates, which helps in the rankings. My experience was at a good but not T14 law school, but my impression is that things are more or less the same at T14s except that they are less concerned with #2 because they are admitting students with high enough stats that they don't have to be concerned about it. The only exceptions might be Yale and Stanford, which have a more holistic admissions process where great stats aren't enough.
While law school admissions officers may not care about undergraduate school attended by an applicant for admissions purposes, the undergraduate school learning environment may result in higher LSAT scores due to a high level of academic expectations/demands and due to the high level of competition during one's undergraduate years. Competing with the best should make one perform well as well as better than if competing in a lesser academic environment.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:34
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:During Covid pandemic, a shortened online remotley proctored version of the LSAT was given (LSAT flex).
The median LSAT score for accepted applicants to the top 16 law schools was:
1) Yale--173 median LSAT score for the class of 2023
2) Stanford--171
3) Harvard--173
4) Columbia--172
5) Chicago--171
6) NYU--170
7) U Penn--170
8) Virginia--170
9) Northwestern--169
10) Michigan--169
11) UCal-Berkeley--169
12) Duke--169
13) Cornell--168
14) Georgetown--168
15) UCLA--169
16) Texas--168
I would be curious to see the source for this. I recall seeing a similar list long ago, but when I drilled down it only included schools with more than some threshold of matriculants, thus biasing against the smaller colleges.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:34
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:During Covid pandemic, a shortened online remotley proctored version of the LSAT was given (LSAT flex).
The median LSAT score for accepted applicants to the top 16 law schools was:
1) Yale--173 median LSAT score for the class of 2023
2) Stanford--171
3) Harvard--173
4) Columbia--172
5) Chicago--171
6) NYU--170
7) U Penn--170
8) Virginia--170
9) Northwestern--169
10) Michigan--169
11) UCal-Berkeley--169
12) Duke--169
13) Cornell--168
14) Georgetown--168
15) UCLA--169
16) Texas--168
2022 is higher
https://7sage.com/top-law-school-admissions/
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:29
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:Then why aren't more mediocre college graduates making it to these law schools?
Do you mean college graduates who are mediocre, or graduates from “mediocre” schools? If the former, the reason is that they are mediocre graduates. If the latter, that would depend on on what your definition of mediocre is. There are plenty of people in T-14 law schools who did not go to to the top 25 “feeder” schools. That doesn’t mean the people from the feeder schools don’t deserve to be there, they do. But applicants with similar stats from other undergraduate school would probably get in, too.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:27
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
During Covid pandemic, a shortened online remotley proctored version of the LSAT was given (LSAT flex).
The median LSAT score for accepted applicants to the top 16 law schools was:
1) Yale--173 median LSAT score for the class of 2023
2) Stanford--171
3) Harvard--173
4) Columbia--172
5) Chicago--171
6) NYU--170
7) U Penn--170
8) Virginia--170
9) Northwestern--169
10) Michigan--169
11) UCal-Berkeley--169
12) Duke--169
13) Cornell--168
14) Georgetown--168
15) UCLA--169
16) Texas--168
The median LSAT score for accepted applicants to the top 16 law schools was:
1) Yale--173 median LSAT score for the class of 2023
2) Stanford--171
3) Harvard--173
4) Columbia--172
5) Chicago--171
6) NYU--170
7) U Penn--170
8) Virginia--170
9) Northwestern--169
10) Michigan--169
11) UCal-Berkeley--169
12) Duke--169
13) Cornell--168
14) Georgetown--168
15) UCLA--169
16) Texas--168
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:13
Subject: Re:Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
Anonymous wrote:If you attend a non-elite small school, do well, and have a great LSAT score, that might give you your best chance. Top law schools are recruiting at more colleges now and like to discuss how many schools their 1L classes attended. You can be the only one!
It is easier said than done to do great over close to 4 years and nail the LSAT or GRE (since most now take it too). If you don't, your options are constrained so I wouldn't choose a tiny and non-prestigious school just because it provides a great shot at T14 admission in a best case scenario. Having a 2nd great school on your resume also helps with networking and early career job placement.
Seems to me if the “tiny” school provides a “great shot” at T14 admissions, it’s elite and prestigious, at least among the well informed who are most likely to matter, even if not as widely known as a larger school.
Also seems that such a school would be likely to have many things going for it beyond the theoretical T14 admission boost. For example, probably it would have great academics, be more likely for a student to get involved in ECs, or be easier to get to know professors or classmates well.
Larger schools might be better for some, smaller might be better for others. I humbly suggest high schoolers focus on figuring out what they think their own learning and activity would be most turned on (or least turned off) by and which schools match those personal preferences.
Anonymous
09/23/2022 15:12
Subject: Colleges & Universities That Are The Top Feeder Schools to the Top 14 Law Schools
As someone who's actually worked in law school admissions, I can confidently say that for the vast majority of law schools, undergrad institution is irrelevant maybe 98 percent of the time. The only times it mattered:
- If someone has a strong LSAT but mediocre grades, we'd be more likely to accept them if the grades were from a top institution.
- If someone has great grades but a mediocre LSAT, we'd be less likely to take them if their grades were from a nonselective institution.
Otherwise, law schools care only about two things: 1) maximizing LSAT/GPA medians for the rankings; 2) ensuring that admitted students have the skills to pass the bar, which increases pass rates, which helps in the rankings. My experience was at a good but not T14 law school, but my impression is that things are more or less the same at T14s except that they are less concerned with #2 because they are admitting students with high enough stats that they don't have to be concerned about it. The only exceptions might be Yale and Stanford, which have a more holistic admissions process where great stats aren't enough.
- If someone has a strong LSAT but mediocre grades, we'd be more likely to accept them if the grades were from a top institution.
- If someone has great grades but a mediocre LSAT, we'd be less likely to take them if their grades were from a nonselective institution.
Otherwise, law schools care only about two things: 1) maximizing LSAT/GPA medians for the rankings; 2) ensuring that admitted students have the skills to pass the bar, which increases pass rates, which helps in the rankings. My experience was at a good but not T14 law school, but my impression is that things are more or less the same at T14s except that they are less concerned with #2 because they are admitting students with high enough stats that they don't have to be concerned about it. The only exceptions might be Yale and Stanford, which have a more holistic admissions process where great stats aren't enough.