Anonymous
09/13/2022 13:57
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the mean girl behavior is much more prevalent in schools with a high percentage of UMC girls. My DD does to a high FARMS school (but we are UMC) and says there are no “mean girls” or “popular girls” type groups. It is a very diverse group of kids and they all manage to get along
I work in a high FARMS school and I disagree that there is no hierarchy--I think it just looks different than it does in the UMC crowd. It sounds like your dd is generally popular and well liked so she isn't mixed in with the drama. That's a good thing!
There is always a hierarchy. It’s human development.
DD is at a high FARMS, highly diverse school and there are many different types of "popular" so she isn't seeing the type of drama that some of her friends at less diverse UMC schools are describing. It may depend more on how diverse a school is versus SES. Overall she's really happy in MS and many of her classmates too.
This may be partially true but my kid goes to Title 1 schools and fifth grade was very similar to OPs post. We nearly pulled her out of school. Middle school was much better. Larger group of kids (300 per grade vs 80) made it easier to stay out of the drama.
I also found 4th/5th grades to be the worst for girl drama. Middle school has been fine so far.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 13:56
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Kids go through adolescence. That is not going to change.
The single best thing to do when kids are in these years is to have them involved in other stuff going on out of school. Sports, art, music, theater, scouting, whatever. Then there are always things for them to think about, plan around, and do. Things don’t go great in one area - there can be positives elsewhere.
Mind you - They don’t have to be superstars elsewhere. Just have stuff they like to do with others. I do recommend some physical activity even if your kid is not into sports. Everyone needs to be reasonably fit. And, it gives some level of self-confidence. Swim, rock climb, weightlift, whatever.
+2 - good advice. Aside from the physical and emotional benefits, my DD’s sports really helped her socially. She had a rough 7th grade and her saving grace was her group of friends from her non-school sport. When things went south for awhile at school she was able to hang with this other group of close friends.
eh. sure, but the mean girls at my DD's school were also heavily involved with sports.
Gmafb.
If they are involved in middle school sports -- then they are not the athletic kids. At the middle school ages club sports generally do not allow time for also playing a middle school sport. Most of the kids know or at least have an idea, who plays what outside of school.
Found the parent who will complain to the principal because their kid did not make the high school team when they were so good on the middle school team.
Oh please. Mine plays travel in one sport but just school/rec in another. As you well know, it highly depends on the school in question and even more so: puberty/growth and general athleticism. Middle school aged sports (yes even travel) are not always predictive. You were being snobby.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 13:46
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the mean girl behavior is much more prevalent in schools with a high percentage of UMC girls. My DD does to a high FARMS school (but we are UMC) and says there are no “mean girls” or “popular girls” type groups. It is a very diverse group of kids and they all manage to get along
I work in a high FARMS school and I disagree that there is no hierarchy--I think it just looks different than it does in the UMC crowd. It sounds like your dd is generally popular and well liked so she isn't mixed in with the drama. That's a good thing!
There is always a hierarchy. It’s human development.
DD is at a high FARMS, highly diverse school and there are many different types of "popular" so she isn't seeing the type of drama that some of her friends at less diverse UMC schools are describing. It may depend more on how diverse a school is versus SES. Overall she's really happy in MS and many of her classmates too.
This may be partially true but my kid goes to Title 1 schools and fifth grade was very similar to OPs post. We nearly pulled her out of school. Middle school was much better. Larger group of kids (300 per grade vs 80) made it easier to stay out of the drama.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 13:08
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Kids go through adolescence. That is not going to change.
The single best thing to do when kids are in these years is to have them involved in other stuff going on out of school. Sports, art, music, theater, scouting, whatever. Then there are always things for them to think about, plan around, and do. Things don’t go great in one area - there can be positives elsewhere.
Mind you - They don’t have to be superstars elsewhere. Just have stuff they like to do with others. I do recommend some physical activity even if your kid is not into sports. Everyone needs to be reasonably fit. And, it gives some level of self-confidence. Swim, rock climb, weightlift, whatever.
+2 - good advice. Aside from the physical and emotional benefits, my DD’s sports really helped her socially. She had a rough 7th grade and her saving grace was her group of friends from her non-school sport. When things went south for awhile at school she was able to hang with this other group of close friends.
eh. sure, but the mean girls at my DD's school were also heavily involved with sports.
Gmafb.
If they are involved in middle school sports -- then they are not the athletic kids. At the middle school ages club sports generally do not allow time for also playing a middle school sport. Most of the kids know or at least have an idea, who plays what outside of school.
Found the parent who will complain to the principal because their kid did not make the high school team when they were so good on the middle school team.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 11:04
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Kids go through adolescence. That is not going to change.
The single best thing to do when kids are in these years is to have them involved in other stuff going on out of school. Sports, art, music, theater, scouting, whatever. Then there are always things for them to think about, plan around, and do. Things don’t go great in one area - there can be positives elsewhere.
Mind you - They don’t have to be superstars elsewhere. Just have stuff they like to do with others. I do recommend some physical activity even if your kid is not into sports. Everyone needs to be reasonably fit. And, it gives some level of self-confidence. Swim, rock climb, weightlift, whatever.
+2 - good advice. Aside from the physical and emotional benefits, my DD’s sports really helped her socially. She had a rough 7th grade and her saving grace was her group of friends from her non-school sport. When things went south for awhile at school she was able to hang with this other group of close friends.
eh. sure, but the mean girls at my DD's school were also heavily involved with sports.
Gmafb.
If they are involved in middle school sports -- then they are not the athletic kids. At the middle school ages club sports generally do not allow time for also playing a middle school sport. Most of the kids know or at least have an idea, who plays what outside of school.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 11:02
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Kids go through adolescence. That is not going to change.
The single best thing to do when kids are in these years is to have them involved in other stuff going on out of school. Sports, art, music, theater, scouting, whatever. Then there are always things for them to think about, plan around, and do. Things don’t go great in one area - there can be positives elsewhere.
Mind you - They don’t have to be superstars elsewhere. Just have stuff they like to do with others. I do recommend some physical activity even if your kid is not into sports. Everyone needs to be reasonably fit. And, it gives some level of self-confidence. Swim, rock climb, weightlift, whatever.
+2 - good advice. Aside from the physical and emotional benefits, my DD’s sports really helped her socially. She had a rough 7th grade and her saving grace was her group of friends from her non-school sport. When things went south for awhile at school she was able to hang with this other group of close friends.
eh. sure, but the mean girls at my DD's school were also heavily involved with sports.
If they are involved in middle school sports -- then they are not the athletic kids. At the middle school ages club sports generally do not allow time for also playing a middle school sport. Most of the kids know or at least have an idea, who plays what outside of school.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 11:00
Subject: Re:Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
To counter act the social engineering that the queen bee moms do, you sometimes need to get involved to assist your own child in my opinion. My daughter was mixed up with the “popular” clique in late elementary but didn’t really fit in with them… she’s quieter and not into boys yet or trendy clothes. I chatted with her about how she felt with this certain group of kids and how that’s not true friendship. We encouraged her to make connections with other kids from class or through activities (could be scouts, church school, an after school club like debate or math counts, a sport, etc), and we facilitated her making new friends. For example, we’d notice at pickup a kind girl from class who always acknowledged her (the cliquey group would literally pretend she wasn’t there sometimes) and we encouraged her to invite that girl ice skating together. While I’m an ideal world kids would navigate everything for themselves, when you’ve got these cliquey families creating exclusive groups and actively excluding or being mean to others, I think it becomes the parents’ job to more actively support the kids through it.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 10:19
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Try a new school. At my kid's school (she's in 8th now) is is completely unacceptable to make fun of people because of their race, disability, weight, clothes, looks, sexual orientation, or gender identity. There is still room to be bullied about other stuff (sports, academics, being annoying) but it is way less than the hell I went through as a middle schooler.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 10:17
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Moms, those you with large groups of neighborhood friends, ones you see weekly, travel with etc.. When you don’t let your daughter invite Larla over bc her mom isn’t invited with your friends, you are perpetuating mean girl behavior under the guise of not wanting to hurt feelings.
I posted right above and this is the kind of stuff that becomes completely irrelevant in HS. Kids make their own plans. Parents are uninvolved. Lots of girls who were friends b/c their parents are friendly won’t hang with eachother anymore, they’ll make their own friendships.
Agree with this but some parents can't let go of it and push it longer even when their kids are ready to simply take control of their own social lives. The parents are sometimes proud of having created these little family cliques, and they become attached to the idea of their kids staying close even as they are becoming different people who might want something else in their lives. They also realize that the kids are part of the glue that make their own friendships work, and don't want to go it alone.
For this reason, we've always encouraged our DD to be friendly with our friends' kids (because it's important to be able to get along with different kinds of people) but we don't expect her to limit their socializing to our friends' kids. At all. And as she gets older, this becomes more true and we encourage it. She is her own person, she doesn't need to fit herself tidily into our lives.
Why do parents do this? Is it insecurity? There's a mom who organized her middle schooler's clique and is very picky about only choosing people she felt were qualified to associate with her DD but not outshine her DD in any way. It was really strange.
How do you even know what other parents are doing with their kids and their kids' social lives? Get off social media.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 10:15
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the mean girl behavior is much more prevalent in schools with a high percentage of UMC girls. My DD does to a high FARMS school (but we are UMC) and says there are no “mean girls” or “popular girls” type groups. It is a very diverse group of kids and they all manage to get along
I work in a high FARMS school and I disagree that there is no hierarchy--I think it just looks different than it does in the UMC crowd. It sounds like your dd is generally popular and well liked so she isn't mixed in with the drama. That's a good thing!
There is always a hierarchy. It’s human development.
DD is at a high FARMS, highly diverse school and there are many different types of "popular" so she isn't seeing the type of drama that some of her friends at less diverse UMC schools are describing. It may depend more on how diverse a school is versus SES. Overall she's really happy in MS and many of her classmates too.
Yep. This is wealthy school district or private school problems OP is describing.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 09:54
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Moms, those you with large groups of neighborhood friends, ones you see weekly, travel with etc.. When you don’t let your daughter invite Larla over bc her mom isn’t invited with your friends, you are perpetuating mean girl behavior under the guise of not wanting to hurt feelings.
I posted right above and this is the kind of stuff that becomes completely irrelevant in HS. Kids make their own plans. Parents are uninvolved. Lots of girls who were friends b/c their parents are friendly won’t hang with eachother anymore, they’ll make their own friendships.
Agree with this but some parents can't let go of it and push it longer even when their kids are ready to simply take control of their own social lives. The parents are sometimes proud of having created these little family cliques, and they become attached to the idea of their kids staying close even as they are becoming different people who might want something else in their lives. They also realize that the kids are part of the glue that make their own friendships work, and don't want to go it alone.
For this reason, we've always encouraged our DD to be friendly with our friends' kids (because it's important to be able to get along with different kinds of people) but we don't expect her to limit their socializing to our friends' kids. At all. And as she gets older, this becomes more true and we encourage it. She is her own person, she doesn't need to fit herself tidily into our lives.
I’m seeing a lot of the parent/kid cliques persisting in middle school, which really surprises me. At the very least, seems to be a built in group of back up friends and even if a kid is no longer all that liked they are tolerated by the others. I never made a major effort with these parents when my kids are younger beyond being cordial, and often wonder now if I should’ve tried harder.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 09:28
Subject: Re:Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
I think it is very common. FWIW I have twins in 8th (a boy and a girl) and middle school has been social rough for my son but my daughter has done fine. Among the girls there are definitely groups (and there is a cool girl group- my daughter is not in it) but not much bullying or mean behavior. More ignoring each other. Then boys, on the other hand, are quite awful to each other and there is some bullying happening. I do think that one group in a grade, or even a kid or two in a grade, are capable of causing huge issues. So, may be an element of luck involved.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 09:23
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Kids go through adolescence. That is not going to change.
The single best thing to do when kids are in these years is to have them involved in other stuff going on out of school. Sports, art, music, theater, scouting, whatever. Then there are always things for them to think about, plan around, and do. Things don’t go great in one area - there can be positives elsewhere.
Mind you - They don’t have to be superstars elsewhere. Just have stuff they like to do with others. I do recommend some physical activity even if your kid is not into sports. Everyone needs to be reasonably fit. And, it gives some level of self-confidence. Swim, rock climb, weightlift, whatever.
+2 - good advice. Aside from the physical and emotional benefits, my DD’s sports really helped her socially. She had a rough 7th grade and her saving grace was her group of friends from her non-school sport. When things went south for awhile at school she was able to hang with this other group of close friends.
eh. sure, but the mean girls at my DD's school were also heavily involved with sports.
That's certainly true, but it's not the point. My point is that having friends outside of her school helped her get away from the drama and gave her other people she could hang out with.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 09:19
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Moms, those you with large groups of neighborhood friends, ones you see weekly, travel with etc.. When you don’t let your daughter invite Larla over bc her mom isn’t invited with your friends, you are perpetuating mean girl behavior under the guise of not wanting to hurt feelings.
I posted right above and this is the kind of stuff that becomes completely irrelevant in HS. Kids make their own plans. Parents are uninvolved. Lots of girls who were friends b/c their parents are friendly won’t hang with eachother anymore, they’ll make their own friendships.
Agree with this but some parents can't let go of it and push it longer even when their kids are ready to simply take control of their own social lives. The parents are sometimes proud of having created these little family cliques, and they become attached to the idea of their kids staying close even as they are becoming different people who might want something else in their lives. They also realize that the kids are part of the glue that make their own friendships work, and don't want to go it alone.
For this reason, we've always encouraged our DD to be friendly with our friends' kids (because it's important to be able to get along with different kinds of people) but we don't expect her to limit their socializing to our friends' kids. At all. And as she gets older, this becomes more true and we encourage it. She is her own person, she doesn't need to fit herself tidily into our lives.
Why do parents do this? Is it insecurity? There's a mom who organized her middle schooler's clique and is very picky about only choosing people she felt were qualified to associate with her DD but not outshine her DD in any way. It was really strange.
Anonymous
09/13/2022 09:17
Subject: Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Kids go through adolescence. That is not going to change.
The single best thing to do when kids are in these years is to have them involved in other stuff going on out of school. Sports, art, music, theater, scouting, whatever. Then there are always things for them to think about, plan around, and do. Things don’t go great in one area - there can be positives elsewhere.
Mind you - They don’t have to be superstars elsewhere. Just have stuff they like to do with others. I do recommend some physical activity even if your kid is not into sports. Everyone needs to be reasonably fit. And, it gives some level of self-confidence. Swim, rock climb, weightlift, whatever.
+2 - good advice. Aside from the physical and emotional benefits, my DD’s sports really helped her socially. She had a rough 7th grade and her saving grace was her group of friends from her non-school sport. When things went south for awhile at school she was able to hang with this other group of close friends.
eh. sure, but the mean girls at my DD's school were also heavily involved with sports.