Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s not a thing wrong with having successful, higher income families at a thriving suburban high school. Should be lauded.

The problem is the sense of entitlement and lack of empathy that tends to come along with it. I’ve never seen such selfish, compassionless people as the UMC of the DMV. Many individuals are lovely but, collectively, it can be a bit much. I can understand where some people might prefer that ratio diluted with regular people to tone it down a bit.

DCUM attracts a lot of insecure people who call themselves "normal" or "regular" and constantly look for ways to bash those who are either wealthier or poorer than they are. The moderator has found a way to monetize those insecurities, but they certainly aren't unique to the DMV.

Anonymous wrote:There’s not a thing wrong with having successful, higher income families at a thriving suburban high school. Should be lauded.

The problem is the sense of entitlement and lack of empathy that tends to come along with it. I’ve never seen such selfish, compassionless people as the UMC of the DMV. Many individuals are lovely but, collectively, it can be a bit much. I can understand where some people might prefer that ratio diluted with regular people to tone it down a bit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a FARMS kids and I can tell you first hand that the idea of having me sit on a long bus ride out of my neighborhood for the privilege of attending school with higher income kids is offensive. Do people really think that poor kids sit in class and think that they are somehow lucky and should be thankful they were given the opportunity? No, they sit there awkwardly aware that they are thought of as inferior to others by their peers.

Stop with the UMC savior mentality and give low-income kids what they need. Support and successful role models who show them all the possibilities for the future right their in their own schools.

*there

Got a little carried away

No one is suggesting long bus rides for FARMS kids to go to UMC schools. The current boundaries though actually go out of their way pulling more FARMS kids together--there are groups of lower income people who live closer to a higher SES school who get "bussed" to their assigned lower SES school. Also new rental buildings that attract higher FARMS kids are being suggested in schools that already have high concentrations of FARMS kids.

Studies show that schools work best when FARMS rate is roughly 20% or lower in a school (number varies by study but roughly that). Even pouring more money and resources into those schools doesn't seem to be effective, especially when the rates of FARMS goes above 50%.

Sounds a bit like the situation developing in Tysons - almost all the affordable housing getting approved for Tysons will feed into Marshall; other apartments and condos (moderate to expensive) will feed to Marshall and McLean; and the local School Board member for Langley (Elaine Tholen) made sure that not a single multi-family unit in Tysons will feed into Langley, even though Tysons is much closer to Langley than other neighborhoods in western Great Falls zoned to Langley.

In the Vienna area, Madison’s boundaries are drawn to include relatively little housing diversity compared to Falls Church, Marshall, or South Lakes. Oakton is actually more diverse than Madison, though still affluent overall.

As long as snooty hypocrites like Tholen are on the School Board, nothing will change. The School Board will blather on about the importance of “equity,” but continue to look after their own neighborhoods.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a FARMS kids and I can tell you first hand that the idea of having me sit on a long bus ride out of my neighborhood for the privilege of attending school with higher income kids is offensive. Do people really think that poor kids sit in class and think that they are somehow lucky and should be thankful they were given the opportunity? No, they sit there awkwardly aware that they are thought of as inferior to others by their peers.

Stop with the UMC savior mentality and give low-income kids what they need. Support and successful role models who show them all the possibilities for the future right their in their own schools.

*there

Got a little carried away

No one is suggesting long bus rides for FARMS kids to go to UMC schools. The current boundaries though actually go out of their way pulling more FARMS kids together--there are groups of lower income people who live closer to a higher SES school who get "bussed" to their assigned lower SES school. Also new rental buildings that attract higher FARMS kids are being suggested in schools that already have high concentrations of FARMS kids.

Studies show that schools work best when FARMS rate is roughly 20% or lower in a school (number varies by study but roughly that). Even pouring more money and resources into those schools doesn't seem to be effective, especially when the rates of FARMS goes above 50%.

Anonymous wrote:I was a FARMS kids and I can tell you first hand that the idea of having me sit on a long bus ride out of my neighborhood for the privilege of attending school with higher income kids is offensive. Do people really think that poor kids sit in class and think that they are somehow lucky and should be thankful they were given the opportunity? No, they sit there awkwardly aware that they are thought of as inferior to others by their peers.

Stop with the UMC savior mentality and give low-income kids what they need. Support and successful role models who show them all the possibilities for the future right their in their own schools.

*there

Got a little carried away

I was a FARMS kids and I can tell you first hand that the idea of having me sit on a long bus ride out of my neighborhood for the privilege of attending school with higher income kids is offensive. Do people really think that poor kids sit in class and think that they are somehow lucky and should be thankful they were given the opportunity? No, they sit there awkwardly aware that they are thought of as inferior to others by their peers.

Stop with the UMC savior mentality and give low-income kids what they need. Support and successful role models who show them all the possibilities for the future right their in their own schools.

Not sure why everyone is acting as thought all Oakton High School kids are rich... yes, I see they have some of the lowest FRL students but that doesn't mean all the other students are wealthy. Just look at the surrounding, walkable community around OHS and you will see mostly all middle-class townhomes. The majority of kids at that school are not coming from mansions in Oakton.

There’s not a thing wrong with having successful, higher income families at a thriving suburban high school. Should be lauded.

Anonymous wrote:They are in the middle of a lawsuit that will likely go to the Supreme Court. They have a history of threatening assault victims. Admin is new since the most recent incident, but as an alumna who saw this first hand, I would be cautious to send my daughter there.

Individual high schools aren’t defendants in private litigation. Someone would have to sue FCPS in connection with something that happened at Oakton and, as you note, the current OHS administration wasn’t in place when the band trip incident to which you’re referring occurred in 2017 (the current principal moved over from McLean, where she’d been an assistant principal, in 2018).

They are in the middle of a lawsuit that will likely go to the Supreme Court. They have a history of threatening assault victims. Admin is new since the most recent incident, but as an alumna who saw this first hand, I would be cautious to send my daughter there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no one has refuted the “full of rich kids” statement.

Fair number.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

DP: It's just a feature for OP to know. They can decide whether they want that or not.

There was a spectrum of low-income students last year:

Annandale - 66.6%
Justice - 65.8%
Lewis - 63.1%
Mount Vernon - 60.1%
Falls Church - 58.1%
Herndon - 50.0%
West Potomac - 47.0%
Edison 41.3%
Centreville - 32.7%
Hayfield - 32.7%
South Lakes - 32.2%
Fairfax 31.9%
Westfield - 31.8%
South County - 25.2%
Marshall - 23.1%
Chantilly 20.8%
Lake Braddock - 18.9%
West Springfield - 16.8%
Woodson - 14.9%
Robinson - 14.0%
Oakton - 13.9%
Madison - 11.9%
McLean - 11.7%
TJ - 7.7%
Langley 3.4%

How ever will Oakton survive...checks notes...a F/R lunch rate 17% below the county average and less than one fourth of the rates of the highest schools?

Sarcasm over, but let's put this another way. At Oakton there are 6 non-poor students for every poor student (6 to 1). At Justice there is one non-poor student for every two poor students (1 to 2). Add on that the ESOL factor and you can start to imagine the challenge the poorer schools are facing.

And this is relatively new to FCPS - getting much worse over the last 15 years and spreading to more schools. No reason to expect improvement in the foreseeable future.

The challenges don’t go away by dispersing the poor students. Please explain how you think busing poor kids from Bailey’s Crossroads to Oakton will improve their educational outcomes. At Justice many of the poorest kids live within walking distance of the school.

Actually, it does help students and schools to keep the F/R lunch rate at a reasonable rate. FCPS actually has a study to this point. And there are cases where FCPS made the situation worse or ignores opportunities to ameliorate the problem: Lewis - West Springfield, Annandale - Lake Braddock/ Woodson, Herndon - Langley, perhaps Falls Church - Madison/Marshall. They even blew off an opportunity to send a few poorer students to Langley a short time ago.

We could build more low-income apartments in the wealthier areas - fairly spread the burden. How about that?

I’m sure the poorer families know you view them as a “burden” that you want spread around, if not eliminated. Even so, you haven’t explained how bussing them to schools outside their communities will help them. And that wouldn’t happen without bussing kids in places like Oakton to schools in poorer areas, which would only accelerate the decline of a system that is already operationally challenged.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no one has refuted the “full of rich kids” statement.

Fair number.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

DP: It's just a feature for OP to know. They can decide whether they want that or not.

There was a spectrum of low-income students last year:

Annandale - 66.6%
Justice - 65.8%
Lewis - 63.1%
Mount Vernon - 60.1%
Falls Church - 58.1%
Herndon - 50.0%
West Potomac - 47.0%
Edison 41.3%
Centreville - 32.7%
Hayfield - 32.7%
South Lakes - 32.2%
Fairfax 31.9%
Westfield - 31.8%
South County - 25.2%
Marshall - 23.1%
Chantilly 20.8%
Lake Braddock - 18.9%
West Springfield - 16.8%
Woodson - 14.9%
Robinson - 14.0%
Oakton - 13.9%
Madison - 11.9%
McLean - 11.7%
TJ - 7.7%
Langley 3.4%

How ever will Oakton survive...checks notes...a F/R lunch rate 17% below the county average and less than one fourth of the rates of the highest schools?

Sarcasm over, but let's put this another way. At Oakton there are 6 non-poor students for every poor student (6 to 1). At Justice there is one non-poor student for every two poor students (1 to 2). Add on that the ESOL factor and you can start to imagine the challenge the poorer schools are facing.

And this is relatively new to FCPS - getting much worse over the last 15 years and spreading to more schools. No reason to expect improvement in the foreseeable future.

I think reference to rich people doesn't just mean 'non poor'. Robinson has roughly similar FARMS rate as Oakton, but it has a much more middle class/slightly UMC vibe among the non-FARMS students -- and fewer kids who would be considered "rich."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no one has refuted the “full of rich kids” statement.

Fair number.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

DP: It's just a feature for OP to know. They can decide whether they want that or not.

There was a spectrum of low-income students last year:

Annandale - 66.6%
Justice - 65.8%
Lewis - 63.1%
Mount Vernon - 60.1%
Falls Church - 58.1%
Herndon - 50.0%
West Potomac - 47.0%
Edison 41.3%
Centreville - 32.7%
Hayfield - 32.7%
South Lakes - 32.2%
Fairfax 31.9%
Westfield - 31.8%
South County - 25.2%
Marshall - 23.1%
Chantilly 20.8%
Lake Braddock - 18.9%
West Springfield - 16.8%
Woodson - 14.9%
Robinson - 14.0%
Oakton - 13.9%
Madison - 11.9%
McLean - 11.7%
TJ - 7.7%
Langley 3.4%

How ever will Oakton survive...checks notes...a F/R lunch rate 17% below the county average and less than one fourth of the rates of the highest schools?

Sarcasm over, but let's put this another way. At Oakton there are 6 non-poor students for every poor student (6 to 1). At Justice there is one non-poor student for every two poor students (1 to 2). Add on that the ESOL factor and you can start to imagine the challenge the poorer schools are facing.

And this is relatively new to FCPS - getting much worse over the last 15 years and spreading to more schools. No reason to expect improvement in the foreseeable future.

The challenges don’t go away by dispersing the poor students. Please explain how you think busing poor kids from Bailey’s Crossroads to Oakton will improve their educational outcomes. At Justice many of the poorest kids live within walking distance of the school.

Actually, it does help students and schools to keep the F/R lunch rate at a reasonable rate. FCPS actually has a study to this point. And there are cases where FCPS made the situation worse or ignores opportunities to ameliorate the problem: Lewis - West Springfield, Annandale - Lake Braddock/ Woodson, Herndon - Langley, perhaps Falls Church - Madison/Marshall. They even blew off an opportunity to send a few poorer students to Langley a short time ago.

We could build more low-income apartments in the wealthier areas - fairly spread the burden. How about that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no one has refuted the “full of rich kids” statement.

Fair number.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

DP: It's just a feature for OP to know. They can decide whether they want that or not.

There was a spectrum of low-income students last year:

Annandale - 66.6%
Justice - 65.8%
Lewis - 63.1%
Mount Vernon - 60.1%
Falls Church - 58.1%
Herndon - 50.0%
West Potomac - 47.0%
Edison 41.3%
Centreville - 32.7%
Hayfield - 32.7%
South Lakes - 32.2%
Fairfax 31.9%
Westfield - 31.8%
South County - 25.2%
Marshall - 23.1%
Chantilly 20.8%
Lake Braddock - 18.9%
West Springfield - 16.8%
Woodson - 14.9%
Robinson - 14.0%
Oakton - 13.9%
Madison - 11.9%
McLean - 11.7%
TJ - 7.7%
Langley 3.4%

How ever will Oakton survive...checks notes...a F/R lunch rate 17% below the county average and less than one fourth of the rates of the highest schools?

Sarcasm over, but let's put this another way. At Oakton there are 6 non-poor students for every poor student (6 to 1). At Justice there is one non-poor student for every two poor students (1 to 2). Add on that the ESOL factor and you can start to imagine the challenge the poorer schools are facing.

And this is relatively new to FCPS - getting much worse over the last 15 years and spreading to more schools. No reason to expect improvement in the foreseeable future.

The challenges don’t go away by dispersing the poor students. Please explain how you think busing poor kids from Bailey’s Crossroads to Oakton will improve their educational outcomes. At Justice many of the poorest kids live within walking distance of the school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see no one has refuted the “full of rich kids” statement.

Fair number.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

DP: It's just a feature for OP to know. They can decide whether they want that or not.

There was a spectrum of low-income students last year:

Annandale - 66.6%
Justice - 65.8%
Lewis - 63.1%
Mount Vernon - 60.1%
Falls Church - 58.1%
Herndon - 50.0%
West Potomac - 47.0%
Edison 41.3%
Centreville - 32.7%
Hayfield - 32.7%
South Lakes - 32.2%
Fairfax 31.9%
Westfield - 31.8%
South County - 25.2%
Marshall - 23.1%
Chantilly 20.8%
Lake Braddock - 18.9%
West Springfield - 16.8%
Woodson - 14.9%
Robinson - 14.0%
Oakton - 13.9%
Madison - 11.9%
McLean - 11.7%
TJ - 7.7%
Langley 3.4%

How ever will Oakton survive...checks notes...a F/R lunch rate 17% below the county average and less than one fourth of the rates of the highest schools?

Sarcasm over, but let's put this another way. At Oakton there are 6 non-poor students for every poor student (6 to 1). At Justice there is one non-poor student for every two poor students (1 to 2). Add on that the ESOL factor and you can start to imagine the challenge the poorer schools are facing.

And this is relatively new to FCPS - getting much worse over the last 15 years and spreading to more schools. No reason to expect improvement in the foreseeable future.