Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:59     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In my 20s I had a bf who desperately wanted to get married and be a SAHD. Not because he loved kids - he didn’t even really want them- but because he hated working. He quit his job shortly after we moved in together and for 2 years I took care of him (mom had taken care of him prior to me).

Most SAHDs I’ve known had similar stories. Some are great, but most are underwhelming. I remember going to the toddler music and tumbling classes, all moms would interact with their kids while dads sat in the corner playing on their phone. I judge them pretty harshly.


Lol there are plenty of SAHMs who do the same thing. Let’s just stop thinking every SAHM is turning down an equity partnership or CEO position to be a SAHM.


There is a large portion of SAHM who are unemployable.


Being a mom is a job. I don't care if someone works out of the house. They do two jobs then. It's not all leisure.


It doesn’t mean they are employable
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:56     Subject: Re:Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent


Don’t disagree with this but as a working mom just wanted to chime in that I also do all the things you describe your wife do and same number of kids. Would not say is a 6 hour shift


I have a housekeeper that does all of the cooking, cleaning, errand running, laundry, grocery shopping, and home maintenance stuff. She works 8am-1pm five days a week. She seems pretty busy.



ohhhhh! You’re right - all working moms without a housekeeper are wrong. It’s truly not possible to take care of your family and work an 8-9 hour shift. Ty for enlightening us all. Side note - instacart! Wonderful invention.


No. I’m just saying that if you add it up, between you and your husband, you are probably spending 20-30 hours a week on cooking, cleaning, laundry, errands, yardwork, and home maintenance. You can do that and still work 8 hours a day.


We are absolutely not doing 20-30 hours a week of these things. Unless you have an estate and five kids


I think that most married couples with kids are spending 20-30 hours/week on cooking, cleaning, laundry, home maintenance, and yardwork (between themselves, their spouse, and any hired help). I can’t think of anyone I know who is spending much less time than that.
I do know a lot if people who are bad at math though. I get it. Multiplying by 7 is hard.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:51     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Men are selected by biology to have physical strength to go out, earn and protect themselves. Until brainiac jobs and safety measures came along, women's biology limited their chances to be able to stay safe and do labor.


I don't understand why most people don't understand this basic level of work and the human body. 90% of people in the US were farmers before the civil war. The women did help with farming but there was no way they could make as much money and food at it as a man. But they were better at raising workers for the farm.


What? I worked on farms throughout my 20s and the women worked just as well as the men. In hunter gatherers cultures women secure just as much food as men do and do just as much physical labor.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:38     Subject: Re:Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Also beyond the family, there is unpaid work that both women and men do for their greater community, country, and world. As long as you are doing something to benefit your family and your community, I don't see the point in getting so nitpicky about who is doing more. We keep hearing about how kids don't have enough good parenting and education growing upand how elderly have no one to help them. Clearly there is a need for nonemployed people to do more work either in their family or the community.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:36     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People assume we live off my income because they see DH everywhere with our kid. He does school drop off and pickup all school functions, Drs appointments etc. They see him out at lunch, grocery store, golf course. Reality is he makes 7-10x what I do. He just needs to be near a phone is the only requirement for him. I think if the roles were reversed no one would even notice.


Well, if he's making "7-10x" more than you do and still manages to do all that for the kids, then what's YOUR contribution? Clearly your family doesn't need your income, and you're not pulling your weight with the kids either. Sounds like your working is all about you, and to hell with the kids.


It has only been this way for a couple of years. I have great benefits that our whole family benefits from. I work for cause that is very close to my heart where I previously spent a lot of time volunteering. I am helping with a leadership transition now and will start stepping back when that is complete. I leave after kid leaves for school/am home everyday when our kid gets home and contribute plenty. Thank you for your concern.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:28     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:Men are selected by biology to have physical strength to go out, earn and protect themselves. Until brainiac jobs and safety measures came along, women's biology limited their chances to be able to stay safe and do labor.


I don't understand why most people don't understand this basic level of work and the human body. 90% of people in the US were farmers before the civil war. The women did help with farming but there was no way they could make as much money and food at it as a man. But they were better at raising workers for the farm.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:26     Subject: Re:Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Man here - some of this is because, in general, women who stay home do a lot of the little unpaid tasks that add up to a lot. My SAHM DW to an 11 and 14 year old does almost all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, appointments, homeroom mom, etc. etc. that adds up to probably something like a 6 hour shift. She has it easier than I do now at my biglaw job but when the kids were little, her days were more of a slog than mine.

But if she weren't doing all of those things, I would judge her as lazy.

Also, a lot of it is biology. I have never seen this situation work in reverse (biglaw woman partner with SAH DH). I think men take pride in providing for their families, and women get resentful if their DH isn't working. I think female attraction over the long term is hard enough and they lose attraction if their man isn't working outside the home. "lack of ambition" or how ever you want to phrase it. I am not saying this is fair but it seems very consistent


Don’t disagree with this but as a working mom just wanted to chime in that I also do all the things you describe your wife do and same number of kids. Would not say is a 6 hour shift


I have a housekeeper that does all of the cooking, cleaning, errand running, laundry, grocery shopping, and home maintenance stuff. She works 8am-1pm five days a week. She seems pretty busy.



ohhhhh! You’re right - all working moms without a housekeeper are wrong. It’s truly not possible to take care of your family and work an 8-9 hour shift. Ty for enlightening us all. Side note - instacart! Wonderful invention.


No. I’m just saying that if you add it up, between you and your husband, you are probably spending 20-30 hours a week on cooking, cleaning, laundry, errands, yardwork, and home maintenance. You can do that and still work 8 hours a day.


We are absolutely not doing 20-30 hours a week of these things. Unless you have an estate and five kids


Well, getting groceries, preparing food every day, and cleaning up afterward is probably 10 hours/wk. Cleaning the house top to bottom is about 4 hours/week. Laundry is about 2 hours/week. Caring for the yard is about 2 hours/wk. That’s 18 hours before you have done any of the little things that take 5-10 minutes a day (ie. taking out the trash, making your bed) or any of the bigger things that take more time (hiring our major home repairs, doing minor home repairs, organizing/decluttering).

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t spend at least an hour most days and a few hours on the weekend doing these things unless they hire them out.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:24     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:Women judge a man’s worth on the job/career he has. Women look for money, power and fame in some combination as to the value of the man. Men know this. This is why a man who does not work, works a low paid/part time or works as SAHD are not valued by men or women.

It’s not really just not valuing the man. Women laugh at men like this. This sends a clear message to other men and women.

There are actually women who are with men who are under employed, but those women either 1. are not educated and just want to be with a man or 2. are wealthy and just want boy toys.

So, as long as you are really good looking, and the women have money, some women don't really care that much about the man's income.

"Hot mugshot guy" had a lot of women after him even though 1. he was not employed because 2. he was in prison. I think I read somewhere that some really rich woman was dating him at one point. Sure, he's doing better for himself now, but when his mugshot first came out, women were falling all over themselves for him. They didn't care he was a criminal, let alone that he was jobless.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:19     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In my 20s I had a bf who desperately wanted to get married and be a SAHD. Not because he loved kids - he didn’t even really want them- but because he hated working. He quit his job shortly after we moved in together and for 2 years I took care of him (mom had taken care of him prior to me).

Most SAHDs I’ve known had similar stories. Some are great, but most are underwhelming. I remember going to the toddler music and tumbling classes, all moms would interact with their kids while dads sat in the corner playing on their phone. I judge them pretty harshly.


Lol there are plenty of SAHMs who do the same thing. Let’s just stop thinking every SAHM is turning down an equity partnership or CEO position to be a SAHM.


There is a large portion of SAHM who are unemployable.


THere are also men who are unemployable and are often fired.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:18     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:Men are selected by biology to have physical strength to go out, earn and protect themselves. Until brainiac jobs and safety measures came along, women's biology limited their chances to be able to stay safe and do labor.


Thank you. Not to mention women's work didn't always have machines with it and they had to make and mend their own clothes.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:17     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In my 20s I had a bf who desperately wanted to get married and be a SAHD. Not because he loved kids - he didn’t even really want them- but because he hated working. He quit his job shortly after we moved in together and for 2 years I took care of him (mom had taken care of him prior to me).

Most SAHDs I’ve known had similar stories. Some are great, but most are underwhelming. I remember going to the toddler music and tumbling classes, all moms would interact with their kids while dads sat in the corner playing on their phone. I judge them pretty harshly.


Lol there are plenty of SAHMs who do the same thing. Let’s just stop thinking every SAHM is turning down an equity partnership or CEO position to be a SAHM.


There is a large portion of SAHM who are unemployable.


Being a mom is a job. I don't care if someone works out of the house. They do two jobs then. It's not all leisure.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:17     Subject: Re:Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Because WOMEN’S salaries can’t support a family and often can’t even cover daycare.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:16     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In my 20s I had a bf who desperately wanted to get married and be a SAHD. Not because he loved kids - he didn’t even really want them- but because he hated working. He quit his job shortly after we moved in together and for 2 years I took care of him (mom had taken care of him prior to me).

Most SAHDs I’ve known had similar stories. Some are great, but most are underwhelming. I remember going to the toddler music and tumbling classes, all moms would interact with their kids while dads sat in the corner playing on their phone. I judge them pretty harshly.


Lol there are plenty of SAHMs who do the same thing. Let’s just stop thinking every SAHM is turning down an equity partnership or CEO position to be a SAHM.


There is a large portion of SAHM who are unemployable.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:15     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Women judge a man’s worth on the job/career he has. Women look for money, power and fame in some combination as to the value of the man. Men know this. This is why a man who does not work, works a low paid/part time or works as SAHD are not valued by men or women.

It’s not really just not valuing the man. Women laugh at men like this. This sends a clear message to other men and women.
Anonymous
Post 08/05/2022 10:08     Subject: Why do we judge men who don’t work more harshly than women?
Anonymous wrote:In my 20s I had a bf who desperately wanted to get married and be a SAHD. Not because he loved kids - he didn’t even really want them- but because he hated working. He quit his job shortly after we moved in together and for 2 years I took care of him (mom had taken care of him prior to me).

Most SAHDs I’ve known had similar stories. Some are great, but most are underwhelming. I remember going to the toddler music and tumbling classes, all moms would interact with their kids while dads sat in the corner playing on their phone. I judge them pretty harshly.


Lol there are plenty of SAHMs who do the same thing. Let’s just stop thinking every SAHM is turning down an equity partnership or CEO position to be a SAHM.