Anonymous
07/29/2022 12:56
Subject: s/o how can swim clubs be more inlcusive
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:charge on a sliding scale. If you earn 1m, you pay $10,000. You earn 100k, you pay $1000. You earn 60k, you pay $200, etc.
No one would ever agree to this. I think most have funds that can supplement someone who can’t fully pay but this doesn’t fix the problem either. Oh, and your suggestion fails to consider those who retire early, have lower earnings, but large assets. Sure the assets will produce passive income, but maybe not as much as wage earners with less assets.
A couple bringing in $1,000,000 per year would never agree to paying more than the poors on a sliding scale? Well, then you better quit private school and forget college, it's all income and needs based, but we're talking about a lot more than 10k per year for full pay families. But hey, that's not fair-rrrrr, so don't participate.
1. How are you verifying income? Do you really expect people to give their tax returns to the local swim club?
2. 10k per year for a swim club? Our swim club (which also has year-round tennis and other activities) is more in the range of $800/year per family.
I'm not verifying anything. Maybe the club doesn't either, I don't run it. Most tax returns aren't even "verified" - you disclose your income voluntarily.
Mhm.
Anonymous
07/29/2022 12:54
Subject: s/o how can swim clubs be more inlcusive
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:charge on a sliding scale. If you earn 1m, you pay $10,000. You earn 100k, you pay $1000. You earn 60k, you pay $200, etc.
No one would ever agree to this. I think most have funds that can supplement someone who can’t fully pay but this doesn’t fix the problem either. Oh, and your suggestion fails to consider those who retire early, have lower earnings, but large assets. Sure the assets will produce passive income, but maybe not as much as wage earners with less assets.
A couple bringing in $1,000,000 per year would never agree to paying more than the poors on a sliding scale? Well, then you better quit private school and forget college, it's all income and needs based, but we're talking about a lot more than 10k per year for full pay families. But hey, that's not fair-rrrrr, so don't participate.
1. How are you verifying income? Do you really expect people to give their tax returns to the local swim club?
2. 10k per year for a swim club? Our swim club (which also has year-round tennis and other activities) is more in the range of $800/year per family.
I'm not verifying anything. Maybe the club doesn't either, I don't run it. Most tax returns aren't even "verified" - you disclose your income voluntarily.
Anonymous
07/29/2022 12:52
Subject: s/o how can swim clubs be more inlcusive
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:charge on a sliding scale. If you earn 1m, you pay $10,000. You earn 100k, you pay $1000. You earn 60k, you pay $200, etc.
No one would ever agree to this. I think most have funds that can supplement someone who can’t fully pay but this doesn’t fix the problem either. Oh, and your suggestion fails to consider those who retire early, have lower earnings, but large assets. Sure the assets will produce passive income, but maybe not as much as wage earners with less assets.
A couple bringing in $1,000,000 per year would never agree to paying more than the poors on a sliding scale? Well, then you better quit private school and forget college, it's all income and needs based, but we're talking about a lot more than 10k per year for full pay families. But hey, that's not fair-rrrrr, so don't participate.
No, they would not. An equivalent service should come with an equivalent price. Would you expect to pay more for a stamp, sandwich, or tutor, just because you can? You’re an idiot if you say you would. Btw: I’ll be full pay for my kids’ college and that’s fine.
The full pays and the free rides at private universities all receive the same education. The richies don't receive extra education.
Anonymous
07/29/2022 12:49
Subject: s/o how can swim clubs be more inlcusive
Our club is more diverse than most. It is open to people from outside the geographic area. It’s very popular, long wait list.
As for the swim team, it’s tough to get little kids to practice at 10 AM if you have a job and I think this limits the demographic that might want to join (younger dual career families who also happen to be trending more racially diverse than in days past in our area) Typically our team has practice for the older age groups earlier, maybe they should switch that since the older kids don’t need supervision.
This summer our club hosted some after swim camps (run by an outside vendor) but not every pool has the space and facilities for that.
As for the swim team, it’s tough to get little kids to practice at 10 AM if you have a job and I think this limits the demographic that might want to join (younger dual career families who also happen to be trending more racially diverse than in days past in our area) Typically our team has practice for the older age groups earlier, maybe they should switch that since the older kids don’t need supervision.
This summer our club hosted some after swim camps (run by an outside vendor) but not every pool has the space and facilities for that.
Anonymous
07/28/2022 10:43
Subject: Re:s/o how can swim clubs be more inlcusive
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am a person of color. Swimming just isn’t a black peoples sport. Go into the “hood” and you will see black people playing football and basketball. Turn on their tv and they are watching football and basketball. What are they wearing? Football and basketball jerseys. It’s just not a black peoples sport by interest. Call me ignorant all you want but we spend a lot of money doing braids and our hair. We aren’t getting it wet! Combine that with our kids coming out the pool looking ashy.
I went to a top private school in DC and whenever we had racial sensitivity workshops or town meetings the African American girls would always bring up lower school swimming as an example of racism. They argued that black girls should be exempt from swim class because it was bad for their hair .
I was talking to a young female african american neighbor a few weeks ago (rising 4th grader) about our neighborhood pool. She told me she doesnt go for the same reason, her hair. It takes her mom a long time once/wk to do it, so she has to wear a swim cap to go to the pool and she just doesnt like the swim caps. They dont feel good, they break, they dont keep her hair dry. I dont like to get in the pool after Ive blow dryed my hair, which takes a lot less time. So I completely get it.
Anonymous
07/28/2022 08:34
Subject: s/o how can swim clubs be more inlcusive
It's an access issue. If we care about this, we need to pour money into rec swimming and give less expensive swim teams, like DC Wave, more lane space. Right now, lap swimmers are prioritized at all of the DC pools.
Here is some more background on the history:
“The biggest stereotype I get is that black people can’t swim,” said Darrell Fogan, a swim coach and former Howard University professor who studies the history of African Americans and swimming. Fogan says it’s a cyclical issue: black people were denied access and opportunity to learn and practice swimming, which means the skill wasn’t passed on to the next generation. During segregation, Fogan says, “they thought they couldn’t swim and it would be safe to just make smaller pools.”
The pools weren’t only smaller; they were also shallower.
“Pools for people of color were all leveled out to be shallow the whole way through and that’s because those pools weren’t used to swim in. And the white pools, they had the swim lanes and everything like that,” said Miriam Kenyon, director for health and physical education in DC Public Schools.
As white people left the district after desegregation, the tax base dried up and many pools closed. Some areas only had splash pads, which are cheaper to build and maintain.
“That impacted people of color through up until now because if your parents don’t swim and your grandparents don’t swim and they have this fear of water instilled in them, then they’re going to keep their kids away from a pool,” Kenyon said. “They can’t go in and save them.”
All of this means entire African American communities in D.C. grew up without an easy way to learn how to swim. The numbers show that lack of access has had a real effect. CDC statistics show African American children are five-and-a-half times more likely to drown than their white peers.
https://wamu.org/story/17/10/19/d-c-schools-swimming-racist-history-americas-pools/
Here is some more background on the history:
“The biggest stereotype I get is that black people can’t swim,” said Darrell Fogan, a swim coach and former Howard University professor who studies the history of African Americans and swimming. Fogan says it’s a cyclical issue: black people were denied access and opportunity to learn and practice swimming, which means the skill wasn’t passed on to the next generation. During segregation, Fogan says, “they thought they couldn’t swim and it would be safe to just make smaller pools.”
The pools weren’t only smaller; they were also shallower.
“Pools for people of color were all leveled out to be shallow the whole way through and that’s because those pools weren’t used to swim in. And the white pools, they had the swim lanes and everything like that,” said Miriam Kenyon, director for health and physical education in DC Public Schools.
As white people left the district after desegregation, the tax base dried up and many pools closed. Some areas only had splash pads, which are cheaper to build and maintain.
“That impacted people of color through up until now because if your parents don’t swim and your grandparents don’t swim and they have this fear of water instilled in them, then they’re going to keep their kids away from a pool,” Kenyon said. “They can’t go in and save them.”
All of this means entire African American communities in D.C. grew up without an easy way to learn how to swim. The numbers show that lack of access has had a real effect. CDC statistics show African American children are five-and-a-half times more likely to drown than their white peers.
https://wamu.org/story/17/10/19/d-c-schools-swimming-racist-history-americas-pools/
Anonymous
07/28/2022 07:14
Subject: s/o how can swim clubs be more inlcusive
Anonymous wrote:The head coaches in most of the pools we see are always white with very few exceptions. I don't really understand why.
Should it matter if the coach is qualified and inviting to all the kids? Our coach is not white and I've seen plenty of non white coaches but that's besides the point. If a majority of swimmers are white, where do you think qualified coaches will come from?
Anonymous
07/27/2022 22:22
Subject: s/o how can swim clubs be more inlcusive
There are several actors here.
* the summer teams (and their non athlete members and parent volunteers)
* the year round teams (same)
* clubs and their boards
* other parts of society that interact with this system and reify it — eg structural bias in housing
Competitive swim can’t solve the last item above. The fact that several PPs introduced it notwithstanding, it’s a straw man that detracts from talking about the role of 1-3 above.
I don’t have good ideas for 1–3, other than trying personally to strive for Equity and emphasize Inclusion.
* the summer teams (and their non athlete members and parent volunteers)
* the year round teams (same)
* clubs and their boards
* other parts of society that interact with this system and reify it — eg structural bias in housing
Competitive swim can’t solve the last item above. The fact that several PPs introduced it notwithstanding, it’s a straw man that detracts from talking about the role of 1-3 above.
I don’t have good ideas for 1–3, other than trying personally to strive for Equity and emphasize Inclusion.