Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obese and overweight women are hungrier than their naturally thin counterparts. I have witnessed my overweight friends eating habits over the years and I can definitely see how they eat more because they are physically hungry. It’s no real accomplishment for me to be at a healthy weight when I am not hungry for more than my body requires. People need some humility and stop thinking that overweight people are needlessly eating food they are not hungry for.

I wouldn't generalize on that. I am obese (5'7" and 245). I gained about 80 lbs in the past 6 years. This was definitely not the case for me. I am an emotional eater to the max (for both good and bad feelings). Bad day at work? Maybe a drive through McD's on the way home will help. Need a little something to get me pumped up for a big presentation? Stop at Starbucks and get a treat on the way to work. Big accomplishment? Let's go out for ice cream! I have never been diagnosed with binge eating disorder but I do see many signs of it in myself- eating when not hungry, eating even when physically full, eating as a way to cope with difficult emotions. It is not really that I'm physically hungry when I load up on crap, it is generally a coping mechanism. Food fills a void for a LOT of people, myself included! And I am humble enough to admit that!

I understand, but it’s what I‘m trying to explain: naturally thin people don‘t face those urges to overeat to that degree. Imagine that every time you felt the urge to eat like that, someone handed you a cigarette and said this will help. That’s how smokers feel. Same with gambling addictions or whatever, people who don’t feel the urge to binge might think it’s as easy as eating smaller portions when the lived experience of obese people is quite different from thin or healthy-weight individuals.

Well said.

I think the shocking results from Wegovy demonstrate this point well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obese and overweight women are hungrier than their naturally thin counterparts. I have witnessed my overweight friends eating habits over the years and I can definitely see how they eat more because they are physically hungry. It’s no real accomplishment for me to be at a healthy weight when I am not hungry for more than my body requires. People need some humility and stop thinking that overweight people are needlessly eating food they are not hungry for.

I wouldn't generalize on that. I am obese (5'7" and 245). I gained about 80 lbs in the past 6 years. This was definitely not the case for me. I am an emotional eater to the max (for both good and bad feelings). Bad day at work? Maybe a drive through McD's on the way home will help. Need a little something to get me pumped up for a big presentation? Stop at Starbucks and get a treat on the way to work. Big accomplishment? Let's go out for ice cream! I have never been diagnosed with binge eating disorder but I do see many signs of it in myself- eating when not hungry, eating even when physically full, eating as a way to cope with difficult emotions. It is not really that I'm physically hungry when I load up on crap, it is generally a coping mechanism. Food fills a void for a LOT of people, myself included! And I am humble enough to admit that!

I understand, but it’s what I‘m trying to explain: naturally thin people don‘t face those urges to overeat to that degree. Imagine that every time you felt the urge to eat like that, someone handed you a cigarette and said this will help. That’s how smokers feel. Same with gambling addictions or whatever, people who don’t feel the urge to binge might think it’s as easy as eating smaller portions when the lived experience of obese people is quite different from thin or healthy-weight individuals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obese and overweight women are hungrier than their naturally thin counterparts. I have witnessed my overweight friends eating habits over the years and I can definitely see how they eat more because they are physically hungry. It’s no real accomplishment for me to be at a healthy weight when I am not hungry for more than my body requires. People need some humility and stop thinking that overweight people are needlessly eating food they are not hungry for.

I wouldn't generalize on that. I am obese (5'7" and 245). I gained about 80 lbs in the past 6 years. This was definitely not the case for me. I am an emotional eater to the max (for both good and bad feelings). Bad day at work? Maybe a drive through McD's on the way home will help. Need a little something to get me pumped up for a big presentation? Stop at Starbucks and get a treat on the way to work. Big accomplishment? Let's go out for ice cream! I have never been diagnosed with binge eating disorder but I do see many signs of it in myself- eating when not hungry, eating even when physically full, eating as a way to cope with difficult emotions. It is not really that I'm physically hungry when I load up on crap, it is generally a coping mechanism. Food fills a void for a LOT of people, myself included! And I am humble enough to admit that!

Anonymous wrote:Obese and overweight women are hungrier than their naturally thin counterparts. I have witnessed my overweight friends eating habits over the years and I can definitely see how they eat more because they are physically hungry. It’s no real accomplishment for me to be at a healthy weight when I am not hungry for more than my body requires. People need some humility and stop thinking that overweight people are needlessly eating food they are not hungry for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, the societal pressure not to be fat does keep a good portion of the people who are not overweight or not obese from sliding up to the next level. There are many, many overweight and obese MC and UMC people who can afford heavier food, take the stairs, and probably even have exercise equipment gathering dust.

Here’s the problem…it’s inconvenient to walk or ride your bike instead of driving, if you aren’t into exercise it’s a chore. For food, products with highly processed carbs and sugar taste good. Eating is an enjoyable experience that is convenient and accessible. There are so many flavor and food options that it’s hard not to enjoy it. The only incentive people have to not get fat is societal pressure because let’s be honest the concern about distant future health issues does not push people to restrict themselves.

Short of extremely limiting food options so eating on a daily basis is boring and less appetizing, there isn’t much policy people can do. Monetary incentives might do it for some but probably not most.

You are entirely wrong. Fat shaming—which is what you are talking about—does not work. Period. It does not stop obesity. It does not cause weight loss. It does not work at all, and it’s time we we as a society recognized that.

To be perfectly honest, I work out and limit my calorie intake because with don’t want to get fat. I don’t enjoy it at all, but do it to avoid excess weight. Doesn’t that kind of mean the shame around being fat does work for some people?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

So fat people haven’t been treated poorly by health care providers?
So fat people don’t suffer from eating disorders?
So it’s really just a matter of calories in/calories out, and if fat people just had some more self-control and will power, they could fix themselves.

Is that what you’re saying? Because those are the big agenda items of Maintenance Phase, and if they’re way off base, please enlighten us.

I skimmed the article. Agree that fat people should not be treated poorly by their doctors.

However, everything that I’ve seen on this topic says that when obese people are put into controlled environments, and what they eat is strictly controlled to what is prescribed by their doctor, they do lose weight 99% of the time. Of course, that is not a realistic solution for these societal problems. However, pretending that the causes of obesity are a mystery is not helpful in thinking about solutions for this issue.

So if obese people could just exercise some self-control, then all their problems would be solved. They should just eat fewer calories. There isn’t anything else that might be going on like maybe different physiological reactions in different people.

Thanks for proving the point of the article: SO MANY PEOPLE DON’T GET IT.

I suppose you also believe that alcoholics and drug abusers should just try harder to stop taking those substances. If others can limit their alcohol or drug use, then why can’t everyone else? Basically that’s what you’re saying. We know that when we put alcoholics and drug users in controlled environments, they don’t use. Right? There can’t be anything else going on. It’s not a mystery.

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make, it sounds like we are saying the same thing. When addicts do not have the ability to get their drugs, they do not use. When obese individuals do not have the ability to procure excess unhealthy food, they will loose weight 99.9% of the time. Once people can acknowledge that this is the physical cause of obesity, they can work to address the emotional and societal underlying issues at play which prevent them from consuming a more optimal diet.

NO. There’s something else going on. Read up on the success with Semaglutides such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Saxenda. They are drugs that are making people feel full faster, impacting how they think about food (stopping obsessive thinking) and impacting how carbs get metabolized. For the first time, people are able to lose weight and not feel like it’s a constant mental battle. There is a brain chemistry component here that needs to be acknowledged.

YES. Until you can post research that shows instances where people remain obese while on controlled food intake, that is the cause of obesity. I refuse to deny the facts of basic material reality.

Now, if there are drugs which help people combat obsessive thinking, brain fogs and help them feel full faster, then I fully support and acknowledge these can help many people.

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

So fat people haven’t been treated poorly by health care providers?
So fat people don’t suffer from eating disorders?
So it’s really just a matter of calories in/calories out, and if fat people just had some more self-control and will power, they could fix themselves.

Is that what you’re saying? Because those are the big agenda items of Maintenance Phase, and if they’re way off base, please enlighten us.

There have been studies done of some of the people who appeared on the biggest loser. One of the guys was a great success story but the follow up is more interesting. Google for the info. He was followed for years by researches interested in the subject. To maintain his weight loss he had to maintain an almost starvation diet. His body was more efficient in storing and maintaining fat. We know genetics plays a big part of this and many twin studies have been done. There are differences in how bodies react to calories so to say it is a matter of calories in/calories out is not helpful.

Isn't part of this due to the way the weight was lost -- total crash diet vs slow & sustained?

I have an older sister who is obese. She is a closet eater. If you go into her kitchen, cabinet contents rarely change -- because that isn't the actual, healthy food she is eating. She loses and gains weight over and over. Diets, prescription pills, two weight loss surgeries (the band and that other one...can't recall the name), you name it she has done it. But the issue it always comes down to? Behavior; she is a closet, emotional eater who will not continue therapy for her underlying issues.

No one in our family has criticized her weight. And she has a loving husband that does not now or every criticize her body.

For every diet, she lets us all know what she is doing and how it will be different from the last one. She shares diet milestones, tells us about the shopping sprees (she is wealthy) she goes on when she meets them, etc. No one congratulates or compliments her on the losses; we know better by now. If anyone dares, she becomes enraged.

It is like dealing with an addict who tries time and again to stay clean.

I know that there are different reasons for obesity and reason why people can't lose and/or keep it off. But she is my motivation for staying on the thin side. I love her, but her experiences frighten me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

So fat people haven’t been treated poorly by health care providers?
So fat people don’t suffer from eating disorders?
So it’s really just a matter of calories in/calories out, and if fat people just had some more self-control and will power, they could fix themselves.

Is that what you’re saying? Because those are the big agenda items of Maintenance Phase, and if they’re way off base, please enlighten us.

There have been studies done of some of the people who appeared on the biggest loser. One of the guys was a great success story but the follow up is more interesting. Google for the info. He was followed for years by researches interested in the subject. To maintain his weight loss he had to maintain an almost starvation diet. His body was more efficient in storing and maintaining fat. We know genetics plays a big part of this and many twin studies have been done. There are differences in how bodies react to calories so to say it is a matter of calories in/calories out is not helpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

So fat people haven’t been treated poorly by health care providers?
So fat people don’t suffer from eating disorders?
So it’s really just a matter of calories in/calories out, and if fat people just had some more self-control and will power, they could fix themselves.

Is that what you’re saying? Because those are the big agenda items of Maintenance Phase, and if they’re way off base, please enlighten us.

I skimmed the article. Agree that fat people should not be treated poorly by their doctors.

However, everything that I’ve seen on this topic says that when obese people are put into controlled environments, and what they eat is strictly controlled to what is prescribed by their doctor, they do lose weight 99% of the time. Of course, that is not a realistic solution for these societal problems. However, pretending that the causes of obesity are a mystery is not helpful in thinking about solutions for this issue.

So if obese people could just exercise some self-control, then all their problems would be solved. They should just eat fewer calories. There isn’t anything else that might be going on like maybe different physiological reactions in different people.

Thanks for proving the point of the article: SO MANY PEOPLE DON’T GET IT.

I suppose you also believe that alcoholics and drug abusers should just try harder to stop taking those substances. If others can limit their alcohol or drug use, then why can’t everyone else? Basically that’s what you’re saying. We know that when we put alcoholics and drug users in controlled environments, they don’t use. Right? There can’t be anything else going on. It’s not a mystery.

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make, it sounds like we are saying the same thing. When addicts do not have the ability to get their drugs, they do not use. When obese individuals do not have the ability to procure excess unhealthy food, they will loose weight 99.9% of the time. Once people can acknowledge that this is the physical cause of obesity, they can work to address the emotional and societal underlying issues at play which prevent them from consuming a more optimal diet.

NO. There’s something else going on. Read up on the success with Semaglutides such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Saxenda. They are drugs that are making people feel full faster, impacting how they think about food (stopping obsessive thinking) and impacting how carbs get metabolized. For the first time, people are able to lose weight and not feel like it’s a constant mental battle. There is a brain chemistry component here that needs to be acknowledged.

It’s not brain chemistry. It is in the gut. Wegovy works on the digestive tract.

But I am hopeful that the advent of Wegovy will put the absurd and deeply harmful myth of “willpower” behind us. Patient stories on Wegovy are remarkably similar: it is, for the first time in their lives, easy to eat a healthy diet. They are not driven by the constant and relentless cravings they were before Wegovy. This should conclusively demonstrate (with more studies) that there is no moral component to weight gain. But I’m not really hopeful because the nasty fat shamers actually like their cruelty. They like being ignorant because they like the feeling of moral superiority they get. I’ve seen it on DCUM; these people are impervious to science and education. All they care about is clinging to their cruelty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

So fat people haven’t been treated poorly by health care providers?
So fat people don’t suffer from eating disorders?
So it’s really just a matter of calories in/calories out, and if fat people just had some more self-control and will power, they could fix themselves.

Is that what you’re saying? Because those are the big agenda items of Maintenance Phase, and if they’re way off base, please enlighten us.

I skimmed the article. Agree that fat people should not be treated poorly by their doctors.

However, everything that I’ve seen on this topic says that when obese people are put into controlled environments, and what they eat is strictly controlled to what is prescribed by their doctor, they do lose weight 99% of the time. Of course, that is not a realistic solution for these societal problems. However, pretending that the causes of obesity are a mystery is not helpful in thinking about solutions for this issue.

So if obese people could just exercise some self-control, then all their problems would be solved. They should just eat fewer calories. There isn’t anything else that might be going on like maybe different physiological reactions in different people.

Thanks for proving the point of the article: SO MANY PEOPLE DON’T GET IT.

I suppose you also believe that alcoholics and drug abusers should just try harder to stop taking those substances. If others can limit their alcohol or drug use, then why can’t everyone else? Basically that’s what you’re saying. We know that when we put alcoholics and drug users in controlled environments, they don’t use. Right? There can’t be anything else going on. It’s not a mystery.

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make, it sounds like we are saying the same thing. When addicts do not have the ability to get their drugs, they do not use. When obese individuals do not have the ability to procure excess unhealthy food, they will loose weight 99.9% of the time. Once people can acknowledge that this is the physical cause of obesity, they can work to address the emotional and societal underlying issues at play which prevent them from consuming a more optimal diet.

NO. There’s something else going on. Read up on the success with Semaglutides such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Saxenda. They are drugs that are making people feel full faster, impacting how they think about food (stopping obsessive thinking) and impacting how carbs get metabolized. For the first time, people are able to lose weight and not feel like it’s a constant mental battle. There is a brain chemistry component here that needs to be acknowledged.

YES. Until you can post research that shows instances where people remain obese while on controlled food intake, that is the cause of obesity. I refuse to deny the facts of basic material reality.

Now, if there are drugs which help people combat obsessive thinking, brain fogs and help them feel full faster, then I fully support and acknowledge these can help many people.

What research are you relying on? Is there research showing that diets requiring controlled food intake result in long term and permanent weight loss?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

So fat people haven’t been treated poorly by health care providers?
So fat people don’t suffer from eating disorders?
So it’s really just a matter of calories in/calories out, and if fat people just had some more self-control and will power, they could fix themselves.

Is that what you’re saying? Because those are the big agenda items of Maintenance Phase, and if they’re way off base, please enlighten us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not put too much stock in Maintenance Phase. They did an episode on a topic on which I am a subject matter expert and the research was completely shoddy. They missed key publications. Their product is a product designed to generate buzz and likes, like everything else. Plus obviously she has an agenda to advance. Researchers need to be neutral.

So fat people haven’t been treated poorly by health care providers?
So fat people don’t suffer from eating disorders?
So it’s really just a matter of calories in/calories out, and if fat people just had some more self-control and will power, they could fix themselves.

Is that what you’re saying? Because those are the big agenda items of Maintenance Phase, and if they’re way off base, please enlighten us.

I skimmed the article. Agree that fat people should not be treated poorly by their doctors.

However, everything that I’ve seen on this topic says that when obese people are put into controlled environments, and what they eat is strictly controlled to what is prescribed by their doctor, they do lose weight 99% of the time. Of course, that is not a realistic solution for these societal problems. However, pretending that the causes of obesity are a mystery is not helpful in thinking about solutions for this issue.

So if obese people could just exercise some self-control, then all their problems would be solved. They should just eat fewer calories. There isn’t anything else that might be going on like maybe different physiological reactions in different people.

Thanks for proving the point of the article: SO MANY PEOPLE DON’T GET IT.

I suppose you also believe that alcoholics and drug abusers should just try harder to stop taking those substances. If others can limit their alcohol or drug use, then why can’t everyone else? Basically that’s what you’re saying. We know that when we put alcoholics and drug users in controlled environments, they don’t use. Right? There can’t be anything else going on. It’s not a mystery.

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make, it sounds like we are saying the same thing. When addicts do not have the ability to get their drugs, they do not use. When obese individuals do not have the ability to procure excess unhealthy food, they will loose weight 99.9% of the time. Once people can acknowledge that this is the physical cause of obesity, they can work to address the emotional and societal underlying issues at play which prevent them from consuming a more optimal diet.

NO. There’s something else going on. Read up on the success with Semaglutides such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Saxenda. They are drugs that are making people feel full faster, impacting how they think about food (stopping obsessive thinking) and impacting how carbs get metabolized. For the first time, people are able to lose weight and not feel like it’s a constant mental battle. There is a brain chemistry component here that needs to be acknowledged.

YES. Until you can post research that shows instances where people remain obese while on controlled food intake, that is the cause of obesity. I refuse to deny the facts of basic material reality.

Now, if there are drugs which help people combat obsessive thinking, brain fogs and help them feel full faster, then I fully support and acknowledge these can help many people.