Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is finishing undergrad in Texas but we live here in the DC area. We are going to pay a retainer for a criminal defense attorney in TX to get a plan in place in case DD needs to "visit the family"

Obviously a personal choice, but she doesn’t want to be on any type of birth control? I was on the pill that age even when I didn’t have a boyfriend for other medical reasons. There are so many other options available that seem easier than keeping a lawyer on retainer, unless I’m misunderstanding.

Sure, she's a young college student who makes mistakes. The lawyer is more about explaining how to avoid a paper/digital evidence trail and getting out of state without imprisonment.

this is ridiculous - retaining a lawyer for a possible future scenario?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading about bills being introduced to make it illegal for a woman to leave the state in order to get an abortion.

So if one of these actually passes, how could it realistically be enforced?

Would pregnant women from the state outlawing travel be refused permission to travel to a state which allows abortions?'

Or, would pregnant women need to certify their pregnancy status with a doctor before leaving, and again upon return?

What about international travel?

The bills floating around that I’m aware of would not actually “prevent” anyone from traveling to get an abortion. They are more targeted at the providers of out of state abortion. So if it’s illegal in, say Kentucky, but legal in Illinois, Kentucky would purport to have jurisdiction over Illinois providers for performing abortion on a Kentucky resident. It’s not like they are going to have checkpoints at every state crossing giving pea stick tests.

They could do a pee test at the state line. It would be similar to DWI checks.

Please! Millions commute "over state lines" just to get to work every day. This is a non-starter.

If personhood begins at conception though, women could be smuggling people over state borders all the time.

Do you honestly believe this is the direction red states are going?

Ohio legislators already introduced a fetal personhood bill that would eliminate IVF. Why do you people keep asking questions like this?
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/07/13/ohio-republicans-introduce-bill-that-could-ban-ivf-by-recognizing-personhood-from-conception/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading about bills being introduced to make it illegal for a woman to leave the state in order to get an abortion.

So if one of these actually passes, how could it realistically be enforced?

Would pregnant women from the state outlawing travel be refused permission to travel to a state which allows abortions?'

Or, would pregnant women need to certify their pregnancy status with a doctor before leaving, and again upon return?

What about international travel?

The bills floating around that I’m aware of would not actually “prevent” anyone from traveling to get an abortion. They are more targeted at the providers of out of state abortion. So if it’s illegal in, say Kentucky, but legal in Illinois, Kentucky would purport to have jurisdiction over Illinois providers for performing abortion on a Kentucky resident. It’s not like they are going to have checkpoints at every state crossing giving pea stick tests.

They could do a pee test at the state line. It would be similar to DWI checks.

Please! Millions commute "over state lines" just to get to work every day. This is a non-starter.

If personhood begins at conception though, women could be smuggling people over state borders all the time.

Do you honestly believe this is the direction red states are going?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is finishing undergrad in Texas but we live here in the DC area. We are going to pay a retainer for a criminal defense attorney in TX to get a plan in place in case DD needs to "visit the family"

Just put her on birth control
The implant in the arm

even my teens know that birth control can fail.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading about bills being introduced to make it illegal for a woman to leave the state in order to get an abortion.

So if one of these actually passes, how could it realistically be enforced?

Would pregnant women from the state outlawing travel be refused permission to travel to a state which allows abortions?'

Or, would pregnant women need to certify their pregnancy status with a doctor before leaving, and again upon return?

What about international travel?

The bills floating around that I’m aware of would not actually “prevent” anyone from traveling to get an abortion. They are more targeted at the providers of out of state abortion. So if it’s illegal in, say Kentucky, but legal in Illinois, Kentucky would purport to have jurisdiction over Illinois providers for performing abortion on a Kentucky resident. It’s not like they are going to have checkpoints at every state crossing giving pea stick tests.

They could do a pee test at the state line. It would be similar to DWI checks.

Please! Millions commute "over state lines" just to get to work every day. This is a non-starter.

If personhood begins at conception though, women could be smuggling people over state borders all the time.

Anonymous wrote:

No you have it backwards. States have no authority to bar interstate travel. Why you travel is irrelevant, that is the whole point. Sure, you could commit a crime over which the home state retains jurisdiction* in the process, but that does not go to the travel itself.

* I really can't think of any analogue where a state can prosecute a resident (or anyone else involved) for engaging in out-of-state activity that is lawful where the activity takes place (buying/smoking pot, physician-assisted suicide, heck, lighting firecrackers) simply by virtue of the fact that the defendant is a "resident" in the home state where the activity is illegal. This would seem to unravel all of federalism --not even getting to the Commerce Clause.

The pregnant woman is transporting a "person" in her womb. The nearest analogue would be a mother transporting her child, such as in a custody battle where a parent is prevented from removing his or her child from the state.

Anonymous wrote:I think over time there will definitely be a geographic “sorting out” of liberal and conservative Americans at the state level. This isn’t going to happen overnight of course, but year after year liberals will reject job offers in red states—or won’t even consider applying for those jobs—and refuse to move to red states. Their children will also stop enrolling at colleges in red states, which will have a big impact on where they live post-graduation. Over time, it will really add up. I think this is inevitable. We’re going to see blue states getting a lot bluer and red states getting a lot redder.

I think this is a desirable outcome. This way, people who like a conservative environment can have one, and people who like a liberal environment can have one. People will not need to compromise.

Anonymous wrote:I think over time there will definitely be a geographic “sorting out” of liberal and conservative Americans at the state level. This isn’t going to happen overnight of course, but year after year liberals will reject job offers in red states—or won’t even consider applying for those jobs—and refuse to move to red states. Their children will also stop enrolling at colleges in red states, which will have a big impact on where they live post-graduation. Over time, it will really add up. I think this is inevitable. We’re going to see blue states getting a lot bluer and red states getting a lot redder.

I agree with this, which is the exact wrong trajectory you would want an already polarized country to take.

Absent a wave election for Dems in '22 or '24, I actually wonder whether either the Rs or the Ds will manage to pass an federal abortion ban/right.

I would predict that the Rs pick up a just couple seats in '22 (no huge swing) and we will have (federal) legislative stalemate (and massive social acrimony and polarization) on the question.

I think over time there will definitely be a geographic “sorting out” of liberal and conservative Americans at the state level. This isn’t going to happen overnight of course, but year after year liberals will reject job offers in red states—or won’t even consider applying for those jobs—and refuse to move to red states. Their children will also stop enrolling at colleges in red states, which will have a big impact on where they live post-graduation. Over time, it will really add up. I think this is inevitable. We’re going to see blue states getting a lot bluer and red states getting a lot redder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading about bills being introduced to make it illegal for a woman to leave the state in order to get an abortion.

So if one of these actually passes, how could it realistically be enforced?

Would pregnant women from the state outlawing travel be refused permission to travel to a state which allows abortions?'

Or, would pregnant women need to certify their pregnancy status with a doctor before leaving, and again upon return?

What about international travel?

The bills floating around that I’m aware of would not actually “prevent” anyone from traveling to get an abortion. They are more targeted at the providers of out of state abortion. So if it’s illegal in, say Kentucky, but legal in Illinois, Kentucky would purport to have jurisdiction over Illinois providers for performing abortion on a Kentucky resident. It’s not like they are going to have checkpoints at every state crossing giving pea stick tests.

They could do a pee test at the state line. It would be similar to DWI checks.

Please! Millions commute "over state lines" just to get to work every day. This is a non-starter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading about bills being introduced to make it illegal for a woman to leave the state in order to get an abortion.

So if one of these actually passes, how could it realistically be enforced?

Would pregnant women from the state outlawing travel be refused permission to travel to a state which allows abortions?'

Or, would pregnant women need to certify their pregnancy status with a doctor before leaving, and again upon return?

What about international travel?

The bills floating around that I’m aware of would not actually “prevent” anyone from traveling to get an abortion. They are more targeted at the providers of out of state abortion. So if it’s illegal in, say Kentucky, but legal in Illinois, Kentucky would purport to have jurisdiction over Illinois providers for performing abortion on a Kentucky resident. It’s not like they are going to have checkpoints at every state crossing giving pea stick tests.

There is absolutely no way in hell that Kentucky should be able to have jurisdiction over Illinois.

One, I think that these laws are patently unconstitutional, even under this SCOTUS.

But even if this statute survives judicial review for a few weeks, what exactly is Kentucky's recourse here? They are going to have their state troopers march into Illinois to try to arrest and drag away an out-of-state OB-GYN? Illinois is going to love having its sovereignty mocked so much that it extradites? The enforcement difficulties further underscore how ludicrous this whole thing is (though I suppose the nightmare scenario is that the Illinois OB unwittingly decides to vacation in KY and... ...)

A Kentucky judge will issue an arrest warrant based on a funding of probable cause (a grand jury indictment will also work). It will then fall upon the Illinois resident to fight extradition and prosecution. This is designed by the Republican Attorneys General to create a constitutional crisis. Koch, Lowes, Comcast (NBC), Walmart, GM and Johnson & Johnson sponsor these extremists.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/14/republican-ag-group-holds-private-retreat-for-corporate-donors-at-swanky-palm-beach-resort-.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading about bills being introduced to make it illegal for a woman to leave the state in order to get an abortion.

So if one of these actually passes, how could it realistically be enforced?

Would pregnant women from the state outlawing travel be refused permission to travel to a state which allows abortions?'

Or, would pregnant women need to certify their pregnancy status with a doctor before leaving, and again upon return?

What about international travel?

The bills floating around that I’m aware of would not actually “prevent” anyone from traveling to get an abortion. They are more targeted at the providers of out of state abortion. So if it’s illegal in, say Kentucky, but legal in Illinois, Kentucky would purport to have jurisdiction over Illinois providers for performing abortion on a Kentucky resident. It’s not like they are going to have checkpoints at every state crossing giving pea stick tests.

They could do a pee test at the state line. It would be similar to DWI checks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading about bills being introduced to make it illegal for a woman to leave the state in order to get an abortion.

So if one of these actually passes, how could it realistically be enforced?

Would pregnant women from the state outlawing travel be refused permission to travel to a state which allows abortions?'

Or, would pregnant women need to certify their pregnancy status with a doctor before leaving, and again upon return?

What about international travel?

The bills floating around that I’m aware of would not actually “prevent” anyone from traveling to get an abortion. They are more targeted at the providers of out of state abortion. So if it’s illegal in, say Kentucky, but legal in Illinois, Kentucky would purport to have jurisdiction over Illinois providers for performing abortion on a Kentucky resident. It’s not like they are going to have checkpoints at every state crossing giving pea stick tests.

There is absolutely no way in hell that Kentucky should be able to have jurisdiction over Illinois.

One, I think that these laws are patently unconstitutional, even under this SCOTUS.

But even if this statute survives judicial review for a few weeks, what exactly is Kentucky's recourse here? They are going to have their state troopers march into Illinois to try to arrest and drag away an out-of-state OB-GYN? Illinois is going to love having its sovereignty mocked so much that it extradites? The enforcement difficulties further underscore how ludicrous this whole thing is (though I suppose the nightmare scenario is that the Illinois OB unwittingly decides to vacation in KY and... ...)

This is how it is going to work ladies.

At first, they are going to use ankle bracelets. You report to your doctor that you are pregnant then the bracelet is given to you. If you do not wear it you will be jailed.

I am not wrong they literally have this written down in many red states. Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Texas for sure.

All women will have to pee on sticks in order to leave these states. There will be no free interstate travel for women.

And they will not stop at abortion anyone who thinks that is not paying attention.

They are coming for your jobs, votes, and right to own property. If you are married you will need your husband's permission to travel.

This is not a joke people. The Republican party is sending us back to the dark ages.

Don't tell me I am hysterical or wrong. I am not. Learn to listen and read cognitively people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am reading about bills being introduced to make it illegal for a woman to leave the state in order to get an abortion.

So if one of these actually passes, how could it realistically be enforced?

Would pregnant women from the state outlawing travel be refused permission to travel to a state which allows abortions?'

Or, would pregnant women need to certify their pregnancy status with a doctor before leaving, and again upon return?

What about international travel?

The bills floating around that I’m aware of would not actually “prevent” anyone from traveling to get an abortion. They are more targeted at the providers of out of state abortion. So if it’s illegal in, say Kentucky, but legal in Illinois, Kentucky would purport to have jurisdiction over Illinois providers for performing abortion on a Kentucky resident. It’s not like they are going to have checkpoints at every state crossing giving pea stick tests.

There is absolutely no way in hell that Kentucky should be able to have jurisdiction over Illinois.