Anonymous
06/21/2022 13:11
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Except that "popular" for a child is different than "popular" in an adult's mind.
After years of volunteering in elementary school, I have never observed kids identifying the sporty group as the "popular" group. Amongst themselves, in their minds, they try to be included in a group that they LIKE, according to their interests: sporty, imaginary play, conversational, etc... Often children will try several groups, because they're interested in all of these things. Groups are fluid and change with the years.
There is no hierarchy in their minds that a group is socially better than the other. Your kid might say: "I want to be with the kids that play soccer at recess! It's the best group!" But this comes without a social judgement. It just expresses exactly what they want to do at recess, with the people they like. The social hierarchy concept is an adolescent and adult construct that parents often project on their younger children's groupings.
Middle school is when children experiment with perceived social hierarchies. It's when kids are full of hormones yet still immature and don't understand that ruthless categorizing of their peers is cruel and unnecessary. It's when there's the largest range in physical development and the highest risk for misunderstanding motives and impulses among the groups.
And then usually they grow out of it sometime in high school.
Nope. As an elementary teacher this just isn’t correct. It usually ends up being the sporty boys (who are often older and/or physically more mature) are the popular boys. These boys alongside the witty boy who is the class clown. OP’s
son is perceptive.
If he enjoys swim team then keep him swimming but for school popularity it doesn’t transfer. More boys are playing basketball or soccer at school in pick up games so being able to play those can be helpful at recess.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Perhaps they're popular in your mind. Or theirs. But most of the students in any given school just don't care that the sporty ones are "supposed" to be popularAlso, it's funny that it's just always certain kinds of sports, and not others.
I've got high schoolers. I've been at this for some time. Every time a thread like this comes up on DCUM, and a bunch of posters agree with each other that certain sports=popular, I have to laugh. Perhaps you're all in a self-reinforcing social circle where you feel this is true, but you've got to accept that a lot of other families just don't see it that way. So if you've got kids who are suffering from a perception that they're not breaking into whatever group they wish to break into, you have to encourage them to seek out other friends, and socialize with new people. Don't fall into the flawed thinking that your child's little circle is a reflection of the wider world.
But what you seem to be suggesting is that there are NO popular kids. That its just individual perception of other people?
But that doesnt really pass the sniff test either.
Anonymous
06/20/2022 12:18
Subject: Re:Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
OP you need to sign him up for activities that put him around kids like him. Whether it's a STEM activity, a non-contact sport, music, drama, whatever. Kids gain confidence from doing things they enjoy and feel like they are good at. It doesn't sound like signing up for team sports in the hope that it will make your kid more like one of the sporty kids is going to accomplish anything and would potentially make your son feel worse about himself. If you're in FCPS and your kid is going to be in AAP next year I have heard that's a great place for kids to find their peer group.
My son is a rising third grader too. It is just a fact that some kids are more physical/athletic than others, and the ones who are more physical will gravitate to one another. My son is one of those kids. Sometimes it gets him in trouble. He never really wanted to sit still and has a ton of energy, so we signed him up for sports at an early age. He is now pretty good at two of them and seems to derive a fair amount of confidence from that. He's on the summer swim team and most of the 8 and under boys want to run around between their events. I notice a couple who are happier to read a book. It's just the way some kids are wired. I don't get the sense that my kid is "popular" (that seems more driven by the moms at this point), but I'm sure these dynamics vary by school. If your son is really expressing a desire to be a part of the sporty group, ask him if he wants to try a team sport in the fall and then maybe see if there's a camp he can do this summer in order to learn some skills. If he doesn't, then look for non-sport activities and ask him which sound most fun to him. We are lucky to live in an area where there are all kids of activities available to kids.
My son is a rising third grader too. It is just a fact that some kids are more physical/athletic than others, and the ones who are more physical will gravitate to one another. My son is one of those kids. Sometimes it gets him in trouble. He never really wanted to sit still and has a ton of energy, so we signed him up for sports at an early age. He is now pretty good at two of them and seems to derive a fair amount of confidence from that. He's on the summer swim team and most of the 8 and under boys want to run around between their events. I notice a couple who are happier to read a book. It's just the way some kids are wired. I don't get the sense that my kid is "popular" (that seems more driven by the moms at this point), but I'm sure these dynamics vary by school. If your son is really expressing a desire to be a part of the sporty group, ask him if he wants to try a team sport in the fall and then maybe see if there's a camp he can do this summer in order to learn some skills. If he doesn't, then look for non-sport activities and ask him which sound most fun to him. We are lucky to live in an area where there are all kids of activities available to kids.
Anonymous
06/20/2022 11:46
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Honestly I’d get him contacts and sign him up for more sports if he wants to do them. If he’s willing to put in the work of training hard for sports so he can be as good as those boys, let him.
If only it were that easy. Some kids just can't do it. Lots of kids have developmental coordination disorders or hypotonia, etc. etc. These are "hidden disabilities," and kids like this are often wrongly accused of "not trying" when really they are working harder than the naturals and failing spectacularly and getting bullied for it. The attitude that "if he’s willing to put in the work of training hard for sports so he can be as good as those boys," is actually really harmful, because it isn't always true and wrongfully suggests these kids aren't working hard.
Thank you! I’m so happy you posted this. My son, 12, has hypotonia. Sports aren’t enjoyable for him and are hard. It’s really difficult as a parent seeing all the other boys advance and do fun team sports while he is left behind. It has imalcted him socially.
Can either of you tell me more? I've long suspected my now 9 year old has low tone, but it's never been something that has risen to a level of getting him assessed, and he is otherwise healthy. But he has very low endurance compared to kids his age, was never able to do monkey bars, is uncoordinated, and doesn't have great balance. He loves running around with friends, but is aging out of being able to play sports with his peers and would not in a million years want to play pick up basketball or soccer. Uncoordinated and not a good athlete is one thing, and I love him for whoever he is, but if he has a "hidden disability" as PP says, I'm worried I should be doing more. Any suggestions?
Anonymous
06/20/2022 10:42
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:I just wrote about my rising 3rd grader and the “popular boy” dynamic. I am shocked at all the parents criticizing OP for describing it or her son for noticing it.
My kid would not use the word popular or even know what that meant - but I instantly knew what OP meant. She used the phrases she chose to convey an idea to adults who can see what is going on.
My kid in in Cub Scouts, baseball, and swim team. There are definitely a core group of boys in his grade who are stronger athletes and/or more outgoing and likely to suggest and lead a game when they have free time. These kids are fun and other kids want to be in the group playing with them. The kids have started to notice who always hits the ball or who makes good plays during a game. My kid would never say “I feel left out” or “I want to be popular” - but he is starting to realize that not all kids like the same things or act the same way. He sees that many boys his age do like the same things (Pokémon, playing team sports) and that he prefers other things (making art, reading books). He senses that he’s different and he’s trying to make sense of that.
I don’t see anything wrong with OP’s concern for her son. It’s hard to watch your kid try to be something they are not or to be disappointed that they are not the preferred friend.
OP - I think the best thing we can do it try to see our kids for who they are and help them balance activities that include the “popular kids” with activities where they can be their true selves and meet peers who get them. For a long time I did not encourage what is a very strong friendship between my son and his 3 close friends who are girls - dragon loving, Minecraft obsessed girls, but still girls. When I finally embraced it and stopped forcing play dates with boys, I saw how happy he is with these girls and how he seems so relaxed and at ease in a way he is not with other kids.
I think it would have been different if OP described it this way, but those are the words she SAYS her son is using and that's honestly hard to believe.
Anonymous
06/20/2022 10:41
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Except that "popular" for a child is different than "popular" in an adult's mind.
After years of volunteering in elementary school, I have never observed kids identifying the sporty group as the "popular" group. Amongst themselves, in their minds, they try to be included in a group that they LIKE, according to their interests: sporty, imaginary play, conversational, etc... Often children will try several groups, because they're interested in all of these things. Groups are fluid and change with the years.
There is no hierarchy in their minds that a group is socially better than the other. Your kid might say: "I want to be with the kids that play soccer at recess! It's the best group!" But this comes without a social judgement. It just expresses exactly what they want to do at recess, with the people they like. The social hierarchy concept is an adolescent and adult construct that parents often project on their younger children's groupings.
Middle school is when children experiment with perceived social hierarchies. It's when kids are full of hormones yet still immature and don't understand that ruthless categorizing of their peers is cruel and unnecessary. It's when there's the largest range in physical development and the highest risk for misunderstanding motives and impulses among the groups.
And then usually they grow out of it sometime in high school.
Nope. As an elementary teacher this just isn’t correct. It usually ends up being the sporty boys (who are often older and/or physically more mature) are the popular boys. These boys alongside the witty boy who is the class clown. OP’s
son is perceptive.
If he enjoys swim team then keep him swimming but for school popularity it doesn’t transfer. More boys are playing basketball or soccer at school in pick up games so being able to play those can be helpful at recess.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Perhaps they're popular in your mind. Or theirs. But most of the students in any given school just don't care that the sporty ones are "supposed" to be popular
I've got high schoolers. I've been at this for some time. Every time a thread like this comes up on DCUM, and a bunch of posters agree with each other that certain sports=popular, I have to laugh. Perhaps you're all in a self-reinforcing social circle where you feel this is true, but you've got to accept that a lot of other families just don't see it that way. So if you've got kids who are suffering from a perception that they're not breaking into whatever group they wish to break into, you have to encourage them to seek out other friends, and socialize with new people. Don't fall into the flawed thinking that your child's little circle is a reflection of the wider world.
Funny, at our kids’ k-12 it’s the gay and trans kids who are put up on the popularity pedestal. In fact you have to be lgbtqia to be in the a cappella groups now.
Oh look cheerleader mom is jealous because she presumed her heteronormative, athletic, probably blonde and blue-eyed children would be the popular ones in her school, but they're not. You poor, poor baby.
Anonymous
06/20/2022 10:12
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Honestly I’d get him contacts and sign him up for more sports if he wants to do them. If he’s willing to put in the work of training hard for sports so he can be as good as those boys, let him.
If only it were that easy. Some kids just can't do it. Lots of kids have developmental coordination disorders or hypotonia, etc. etc. These are "hidden disabilities," and kids like this are often wrongly accused of "not trying" when really they are working harder than the naturals and failing spectacularly and getting bullied for it. The attitude that "if he’s willing to put in the work of training hard for sports so he can be as good as those boys," is actually really harmful, because it isn't always true and wrongfully suggests these kids aren't working hard.
Thank you! I’m so happy you posted this. My son, 12, has hypotonia. Sports aren’t enjoyable for him and are hard. It’s really difficult as a parent seeing all the other boys advance and do fun team sports while he is left behind. It has imalcted him socially.
I feel for your boys, but I’d note that from OP’s description her son is athletic and coordinated, just small and fearful of contact, so it sounds like many sports are on the table. I recommend running as a sport and hobby for kids who are not able to excel in other sports. You can always improve your times and distance and enjoy the benefits of feeling strong and fit.
Anonymous
06/20/2022 09:23
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
I just wrote about my rising 3rd grader and the “popular boy” dynamic. I am shocked at all the parents criticizing OP for describing it or her son for noticing it.
My kid would not use the word popular or even know what that meant - but I instantly knew what OP meant. She used the phrases she chose to convey an idea to adults who can see what is going on.
My kid in in Cub Scouts, baseball, and swim team. There are definitely a core group of boys in his grade who are stronger athletes and/or more outgoing and likely to suggest and lead a game when they have free time. These kids are fun and other kids want to be in the group playing with them. The kids have started to notice who always hits the ball or who makes good plays during a game. My kid would never say “I feel left out” or “I want to be popular” - but he is starting to realize that not all kids like the same things or act the same way. He sees that many boys his age do like the same things (Pokémon, playing team sports) and that he prefers other things (making art, reading books). He senses that he’s different and he’s trying to make sense of that.
I don’t see anything wrong with OP’s concern for her son. It’s hard to watch your kid try to be something they are not or to be disappointed that they are not the preferred friend.
OP - I think the best thing we can do it try to see our kids for who they are and help them balance activities that include the “popular kids” with activities where they can be their true selves and meet peers who get them. For a long time I did not encourage what is a very strong friendship between my son and his 3 close friends who are girls - dragon loving, Minecraft obsessed girls, but still girls. When I finally embraced it and stopped forcing play dates with boys, I saw how happy he is with these girls and how he seems so relaxed and at ease in a way he is not with other kids.
My kid would not use the word popular or even know what that meant - but I instantly knew what OP meant. She used the phrases she chose to convey an idea to adults who can see what is going on.
My kid in in Cub Scouts, baseball, and swim team. There are definitely a core group of boys in his grade who are stronger athletes and/or more outgoing and likely to suggest and lead a game when they have free time. These kids are fun and other kids want to be in the group playing with them. The kids have started to notice who always hits the ball or who makes good plays during a game. My kid would never say “I feel left out” or “I want to be popular” - but he is starting to realize that not all kids like the same things or act the same way. He sees that many boys his age do like the same things (Pokémon, playing team sports) and that he prefers other things (making art, reading books). He senses that he’s different and he’s trying to make sense of that.
I don’t see anything wrong with OP’s concern for her son. It’s hard to watch your kid try to be something they are not or to be disappointed that they are not the preferred friend.
OP - I think the best thing we can do it try to see our kids for who they are and help them balance activities that include the “popular kids” with activities where they can be their true selves and meet peers who get them. For a long time I did not encourage what is a very strong friendship between my son and his 3 close friends who are girls - dragon loving, Minecraft obsessed girls, but still girls. When I finally embraced it and stopped forcing play dates with boys, I saw how happy he is with these girls and how he seems so relaxed and at ease in a way he is not with other kids.
Anonymous
06/20/2022 09:10
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
This is my kid, sort of. My kid is not left out - but is on the periphery a lot. He is interested in the “popular” kids, but when he does join them, they are too loud and rough and he gets uncomfortable.
It is crazy to me to watch the other boys like him also stay on the periphery but keep jumping back in, like this time it will be different. There are 2 other kids in Cub Scouts who clearly have this dynamic, but I can’t get my son to talk to them. I want to shout “that kid reading a book in the corner, drawing my himself, wearing a shirt from your favorite podcast, the one going to robotics camp instead of football camp - those are your people!
My husband says just wait a year or two and they will sort it out themselves. For now, my son’s 3 closest friends are girls.
It is crazy to me to watch the other boys like him also stay on the periphery but keep jumping back in, like this time it will be different. There are 2 other kids in Cub Scouts who clearly have this dynamic, but I can’t get my son to talk to them. I want to shout “that kid reading a book in the corner, drawing my himself, wearing a shirt from your favorite podcast, the one going to robotics camp instead of football camp - those are your people!
My husband says just wait a year or two and they will sort it out themselves. For now, my son’s 3 closest friends are girls.
Anonymous
06/20/2022 09:04
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised that a rising third grader is aware of popularity. My rising 4th grader is certainly not, but maybe that's because my kids go to a big school - 4 classes in every grade.
You need to find him activities where he can find his special group of friends. Scouts, maybe? Some sort of STEM club like Lego robotics or something if he likes that sort of thing?
Our private school has issues socially, even if 16-20 kids per class 1 or 2 bad apples can ruin the whole class experience. The last year a couple kids really ostracized themselves being either the class hyper kid or the class manipulator.
Public schools has more kids per grade and class plus more movement between the “friend groups.” Or at least the movement is more of a non issue
Anonymous
06/20/2022 08:59
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Except that "popular" for a child is different than "popular" in an adult's mind.
After years of volunteering in elementary school, I have never observed kids identifying the sporty group as the "popular" group. Amongst themselves, in their minds, they try to be included in a group that they LIKE, according to their interests: sporty, imaginary play, conversational, etc... Often children will try several groups, because they're interested in all of these things. Groups are fluid and change with the years.
There is no hierarchy in their minds that a group is socially better than the other. Your kid might say: "I want to be with the kids that play soccer at recess! It's the best group!" But this comes without a social judgement. It just expresses exactly what they want to do at recess, with the people they like. The social hierarchy concept is an adolescent and adult construct that parents often project on their younger children's groupings.
Middle school is when children experiment with perceived social hierarchies. It's when kids are full of hormones yet still immature and don't understand that ruthless categorizing of their peers is cruel and unnecessary. It's when there's the largest range in physical development and the highest risk for misunderstanding motives and impulses among the groups.
And then usually they grow out of it sometime in high school.
Nope. As an elementary teacher this just isn’t correct. It usually ends up being the sporty boys (who are often older and/or physically more mature) are the popular boys. These boys alongside the witty boy who is the class clown. OP’s
son is perceptive.
If he enjoys swim team then keep him swimming but for school popularity it doesn’t transfer. More boys are playing basketball or soccer at school in pick up games so being able to play those can be helpful at recess.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Perhaps they're popular in your mind. Or theirs. But most of the students in any given school just don't care that the sporty ones are "supposed" to be popular
I've got high schoolers. I've been at this for some time. Every time a thread like this comes up on DCUM, and a bunch of posters agree with each other that certain sports=popular, I have to laugh. Perhaps you're all in a self-reinforcing social circle where you feel this is true, but you've got to accept that a lot of other families just don't see it that way. So if you've got kids who are suffering from a perception that they're not breaking into whatever group they wish to break into, you have to encourage them to seek out other friends, and socialize with new people. Don't fall into the flawed thinking that your child's little circle is a reflection of the wider world.
Funny, at our kids’ k-12 it’s the gay and trans kids who are put up on the popularity pedestal. In fact you have to be lgbtqia to be in the a cappella groups now.
Anonymous
06/19/2022 23:46
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised that a rising third grader is aware of popularity. My rising 4th grader is certainly not, but maybe that's because my kids go to a big school - 4 classes in every grade.
You need to find him activities where he can find his special group of friends. Scouts, maybe? Some sort of STEM club like Lego robotics or something if he likes that sort of thing?
If the kid wants to be cool, this is not the way to go about it. He has a group, but wants to be with the “cool” kids. Unfortunately, I most places, this will be the athletic, good looking or funny kids. It’s just the way life is, and no, it does not even out in high school.
I don't think PP was suggesting those as cool kid things, I think they were suggesting them as a way for him to find his tribe. It doesn't sound like he's the athletic, fun type, so wouldn't it be better for him to find a good group of friends with shared interests than fake it?
Anonymous
06/19/2022 23:45
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You must be in UMC primarily white schools - our diverse school doesn't really have a "popular" group in each grade. There are multiple groups of different types of kids. I feel very fortunate that my kids don't have to deal with people like you and your children.
NP but we also haven't noticed any sort of "popular kids" group in my kids' school. This is ES 3rd and 4th grades, I don't have older children. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this was a socioeconomic thing - we are not DCUM rich and my kids are in a minority-white school..
Anonymous
06/19/2022 23:36
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Parent of two boys here - if your second grader is obsessed with being one of the popular kids, he is absorbing that from you. I have one super sporty kid, one who is completely disinterested in sports, and neither is "popular" by their own admission. They have friends and generally get along with people very well, but somehow decided early on that they'd rather be themselves then try to impress a classmate. I'll admit there have been moments when I wished it were otherwise - they're great kids, they should be popular! - but for the most part I'm happy that they are not caught up in that BS.
Bottom line: OP examine yourself if you're worried about this.
Bottom line: OP examine yourself if you're worried about this.
Anonymous
06/19/2022 23:07
Subject: Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Honestly I’d get him contacts and sign him up for more sports if he wants to do them. If he’s willing to put in the work of training hard for sports so he can be as good as those boys, let him.
If only it were that easy. Some kids just can't do it. Lots of kids have developmental coordination disorders or hypotonia, etc. etc. These are "hidden disabilities," and kids like this are often wrongly accused of "not trying" when really they are working harder than the naturals and failing spectacularly and getting bullied for it. The attitude that "if he’s willing to put in the work of training hard for sports so he can be as good as those boys," is actually really harmful, because it isn't always true and wrongfully suggests these kids aren't working hard.
Thank you! I’m so happy you posted this. My son, 12, has hypotonia. Sports aren’t enjoyable for him and are hard. It’s really difficult as a parent seeing all the other boys advance and do fun team sports while he is left behind. It has imalcted him socially.
Anonymous
06/19/2022 22:56
Subject: Re:Helping DS, 8, make peace with not being one of the popular boys.
Anonymous wrote:I think we all have to help our kids discover and cherish who they are. With lots of love and support, OP, your son will get there.
+1. Love and support. Encourage him to talk about his feelings and vocalize his wants.