Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread depresses me. The notion that one bad grade or a handful of Bs derails kids’ chances when they are otherwise strong applicants is really a bummer for these kids. Yes, there is more to life than top-ranked colleges and they will all be fine regardless, but given that rising seniors have spent most of their high school years in a pandemic, it would be nice if they could just catch a break without having to justify why one grade doesn’t reflect who they are as a student.

But realistically-the kid with straight As through high school and the kid with a handful of Bs or a D are fundamentally different students. I have both in my family (in fact they're twins) and they're very, very different kids and frankly they shouldn't be going to the same college. their work ethics, academic inclinations, etc are quite different.

This just isn’t true. My older son took all most rigorous classes - through linear algebra and AP physics, and graduated with all As and a handful of Bs. My younger who is a rising HS senior also takes rigorous classes but a notch below (AP calculus AB instead of BC, AP envt’l science instead of physics, won’t take AP world language until senior year), and is on track to graduate with a 4.0. Both are equally strong students, I’d argue the older was always up for more academic challenge, and the younger has been able to avoid Bs by taking AB calc, etc.

You just stated the older "was up for more academically challenge". Well that is the difference often times between those who attend "elite" and the next level of colleges. Your 2nd kid is obviously very smart too, but not as self motivated as the other, or he'd have taken the more "rigorous" courses. Both will do extremely well, and will thrive wherever they go. But the first will have a better chance at an Elite admission.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread depresses me. The notion that one bad grade or a handful of Bs derails kids’ chances when they are otherwise strong applicants is really a bummer for these kids. Yes, there is more to life than top-ranked colleges and they will all be fine regardless, but given that rising seniors have spent most of their high school years in a pandemic, it would be nice if they could just catch a break without having to justify why one grade doesn’t reflect who they are as a student.

But realistically-the kid with straight As through high school and the kid with a handful of Bs or a D are fundamentally different students. I have both in my family (in fact they're twins) and they're very, very different kids and frankly they shouldn't be going to the same college. their work ethics, academic inclinations, etc are quite different.

This just isn’t true. My older son took all most rigorous classes - through linear algebra and AP physics, and graduated with all As and a handful of Bs. My younger who is a rising HS senior also takes rigorous classes but a notch below (AP calculus AB instead of BC, AP envt’l science instead of physics, won’t take AP world language until senior year), and is on track to graduate with a 4.0. Both are equally strong students, I’d argue the older was always up for more academic challenge, and the younger has been able to avoid Bs by taking AB calc, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread depresses me. The notion that one bad grade or a handful of Bs derails kids’ chances when they are otherwise strong applicants is really a bummer for these kids. Yes, there is more to life than top-ranked colleges and they will all be fine regardless, but given that rising seniors have spent most of their high school years in a pandemic, it would be nice if they could just catch a break without having to justify why one grade doesn’t reflect who they are as a student.

But realistically-the kid with straight As through high school and the kid with a handful of Bs or a D are fundamentally different students. I have both in my family (in fact they're twins) and they're very, very different kids and frankly they shouldn't be going to the same college. their work ethics, academic inclinations, etc are quite different.

+1 I have a kid who does care a lot about school but gets a mix of As and Bs and ended up with a C in junior year. ADHD challenges are a big reason for her mixed grades. She really doesn't belong at an elite college and that's fine. She'll have plenty of options that are a better fit for her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread depresses me. The notion that one bad grade or a handful of Bs derails kids’ chances when they are otherwise strong applicants is really a bummer for these kids. Yes, there is more to life than top-ranked colleges and they will all be fine regardless, but given that rising seniors have spent most of their high school years in a pandemic, it would be nice if they could just catch a break without having to justify why one grade doesn’t reflect who they are as a student.

But realistically-the kid with straight As through high school and the kid with a handful of Bs or a D are fundamentally different students. I have both in my family (in fact they're twins) and they're very, very different kids and frankly they shouldn't be going to the same college. their work ethics, academic inclinations, etc are quite different.

BINGO

A kid that gets a handful of B's and a random C/D is extremely different than someone with a 3.95+ UW gpa.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread depresses me. The notion that one bad grade or a handful of Bs derails kids’ chances when they are otherwise strong applicants is really a bummer for these kids. Yes, there is more to life than top-ranked colleges and they will all be fine regardless, but given that rising seniors have spent most of their high school years in a pandemic, it would be nice if they could just catch a break without having to justify why one grade doesn’t reflect who they are as a student.

So pick a university that is not "top-ranked/elite" and outside of the T20 and the one grade won't "derail them". The fact is there are way more qualified people applying for a limited number of spots at these top universities; so nothing is a high probability. Also know that even if they got all As and took 7 APs each year and a 1580 SAT, there is still a good chance they wont get into a T20 school. It's a lottery, their scores/hard work earn them the chance to purchase a lottery ticket, but ultimately, 90-95% of the highly qualified students get turned down at these schools. Buying a ticket to all 20 only increases your chances slightly (same as buying 1 vs 20 tickets in a $500M powerball lottery---not much difference). If you raised your kids right, they know their worth and would have planned to have amazing Targets and Safety schools, would get into 75%+ of those (if done right) and would have excellent choices. If you focus on just the elite schools you are setting your DC up for disappointment, which is just sad.

My own DC did not get into the 2 T30 school they applied to. Got waitlisted at the T30 and rejected in RD after being deferred ED. But they got into ALL of their targets and safeties and had an excellent list to choose from. In many ways, I think they will be happier at their choice than they might have been at the other 2 (it's a better fit than the WL school). My DC is going to a T40 school (only ranked 4 below the WL'd school if rankings matter--they don't really for me). They didn't have to "settle" because they found true targets to apply to that they wanted to attend.

If rankings don't matter to you, why even mention that your DC wound up at a T40 school ranked only 4 spots below the WL school? It wasn't at all necessary to do so for the valid points you made.

Anonymous wrote:This thread depresses me. The notion that one bad grade or a handful of Bs derails kids’ chances when they are otherwise strong applicants is really a bummer for these kids. Yes, there is more to life than top-ranked colleges and they will all be fine regardless, but given that rising seniors have spent most of their high school years in a pandemic, it would be nice if they could just catch a break without having to justify why one grade doesn’t reflect who they are as a student.

But realistically-the kid with straight As through high school and the kid with a handful of Bs or a D are fundamentally different students. I have both in my family (in fact they're twins) and they're very, very different kids and frankly they shouldn't be going to the same college. their work ethics, academic inclinations, etc are quite different.

Anonymous wrote:This thread depresses me. The notion that one bad grade or a handful of Bs derails kids’ chances when they are otherwise strong applicants is really a bummer for these kids. Yes, there is more to life than top-ranked colleges and they will all be fine regardless, but given that rising seniors have spent most of their high school years in a pandemic, it would be nice if they could just catch a break without having to justify why one grade doesn’t reflect who they are as a student.

So pick a university that is not "top-ranked/elite" and outside of the T20 and the one grade won't "derail them". The fact is there are way more qualified people applying for a limited number of spots at these top universities; so nothing is a high probability. Also know that even if they got all As and took 7 APs each year and a 1580 SAT, there is still a good chance they wont get into a T20 school. It's a lottery, their scores/hard work earn them the chance to purchase a lottery ticket, but ultimately, 90-95% of the highly qualified students get turned down at these schools. Buying a ticket to all 20 only increases your chances slightly (same as buying 1 vs 20 tickets in a $500M powerball lottery---not much difference). If you raised your kids right, they know their worth and would have planned to have amazing Targets and Safety schools, would get into 75%+ of those (if done right) and would have excellent choices. If you focus on just the elite schools you are setting your DC up for disappointment, which is just sad.

My own DC did not get into the 2 T30 school they applied to. Got waitlisted at the T30 and rejected in RD after being deferred ED. But they got into ALL of their targets and safeties and had an excellent list to choose from. In many ways, I think they will be happier at their choice than they might have been at the other 2 (it's a better fit than the WL school). My DC is going to a T40 school (only ranked 4 below the WL'd school if rankings matter--they don't really for me). They didn't have to "settle" because they found true targets to apply to that they wanted to attend.

This thread depresses me. The notion that one bad grade or a handful of Bs derails kids’ chances when they are otherwise strong applicants is really a bummer for these kids. Yes, there is more to life than top-ranked colleges and they will all be fine regardless, but given that rising seniors have spent most of their high school years in a pandemic, it would be nice if they could just catch a break without having to justify why one grade doesn’t reflect who they are as a student.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why you’d want to try and explain this on the application. Unless someone died or they had an illness. The rest of the world gets bad grades occasionally and doesn’t make up excuses. You base college applications on where you fit in, which is not a top school.

Clicked on this thread because DD had a similar bad grade issue just happen her junior year (looks like the final grade will be a C-, but that's still pretty low). Other grades should be B or higher, but most of those grades should have been A's. The issue for her was a medical issue that happened right at the end of first semester that caused serious emotional distress and tanked her grades (and also was and will be a recurring issue, although the current treatment seems to be working). Just wondering how she's supposed to explain this in her apps - she's not aiming for Ivys or anything, but really hoping to get into state flagship (and 9th and 10th grade GPA was almost 4.0 unweighted). Will high test scores compensate? They're currently only ok, but she'll retake in the fall.

There is a section for additional information on the common app. She could put it there or better would be to have the finale or mention medical issues and how she overcame them in the recommendation.

Thank you!

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

Mine got all As and a couple Bs. Had very rigorous curriculum in magnet though. Got into 3 Ivies/T10.

Would you share which magnet? Mine got a B last year and people keep acting like it’s not even worth applying to ivys with that. I really don’t know how much to adjust for the magnet factor.

Blair. But, we did know other kids w/ straight As who didn't get into any. DD had excellent ECs and nat'l awards. Probably should have mentioned that, but I just wanted to say that a couple Bs aren't necessarily a dealbreaker.

It might depend in part on other things, like what program he is applying to. For an unhooked boy applying for CS, one low grade will matter. For a boy applying for humanities, it might not. Similarly, a kid applying for theater can get away with lower grades. Point is, some majors are more competitive than others and for some demographics matter a lot.

What is this notion that a kid in theatre can have lower grades. That is ridiculous unless it is an audition based bfa possibly.

Struck a nerve I guess. It absolutely does matter the program/major and some are less competitive and more grade reliant than others. Be happy your DC got into a good school for theater but that absolutely does not mean a kid with similar grades would get in for CS. And audition based programs like CMU are 80% based on audition and academic portfolio makes up only 20%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

Mine got all As and a couple Bs. Had very rigorous curriculum in magnet though. Got into 3 Ivies/T10.

Would you share which magnet? Mine got a B last year and people keep acting like it’s not even worth applying to ivys with that. I really don’t know how much to adjust for the magnet factor.

Blair. But, we did know other kids w/ straight As who didn't get into any. DD had excellent ECs and nat'l awards. Probably should have mentioned that, but I just wanted to say that a couple Bs aren't necessarily a dealbreaker.

It might depend in part on other things, like what program he is applying to. For an unhooked boy applying for CS, one low grade will matter. For a boy applying for humanities, it might not. Similarly, a kid applying for theater can get away with lower grades. Point is, some majors are more competitive than others and for some demographics matter a lot.

You are certainly screwed if an Asian boy trying to get in CS/STEM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

Mine got all As and a couple Bs. Had very rigorous curriculum in magnet though. Got into 3 Ivies/T10.

Would you share which magnet? Mine got a B last year and people keep acting like it’s not even worth applying to ivys with that. I really don’t know how much to adjust for the magnet factor.

Blair. But, we did know other kids w/ straight As who didn't get into any. DD had excellent ECs and nat'l awards. Probably should have mentioned that, but I just wanted to say that a couple Bs aren't necessarily a dealbreaker.

It might depend in part on other things, like what program he is applying to. For an unhooked boy applying for CS, one low grade will matter. For a boy applying for humanities, it might not. Similarly, a kid applying for theater can get away with lower grades. Point is, some majors are more competitive than others and for some demographics matter a lot.

What is this notion that a kid in theatre can have lower grades. That is ridiculous unless it is an audition based bfa possibly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Btw, a D, even in a rigorous class, is not a good thing for anyone. But I agree that retaking course senior year shows perseverance. Student (and counselor) need to come up with a viable explanation for why it happened. It wont stop you from getting into most schools, but it will for the T20-30/elite schools, unless there is a really good reason (family death, major illness, etc).

DCUM wisom on minimum acceptable grades in rigorous classes?

Not sure the question?

No one can really tell "how bad of a grade is too bad". However, most T20-T30/elite schools have admission rates of 5-10%. So they do not need to accept someone who gets a D or C in a rigorous course. There are plenty of students who never get below a B even in rigorous courses to select from; heck there are plenty who never get below an A/A-. And there are plenty of students who manage this while taking 4-7 AP/IB courses in a single year. Unless your student can truly "own the grade" and has a truly valid reason for why it happened (ie. Parent was ill/student was ill/ major family issues etc that were the direct cause), the grade WILL impact them in college admissions. That's just where we are in life. However, I'd argue that it's been that way for a long time. Even 30 years ago, a C/D on your transcript would impact you at elite colleges.
However, there are still plenty of GREAT schools your student will get into. It's not the end of the world as DCUM would make it out to be.

I'd argue that if your kid cannot get at least a B-/B in a "rigorous course in HS", that perhaps they are not cut out for a T20 school and that is OK. Because for example, IB calculus or AP Calculus BC are just the beginning of "rigorous courses", and Calc 3/4/Diff EQ and beyond are much harder courses and you can still get a sucky professor at a Top University (had plenty myself along with really good ones too).

I should have been clearer in my question: I meant to ask what DCUM's wisdom was on the question of minimum acceptable grades in rigorous courses for a student to still be competitive at T10/T20 colleges. But this is a very informative response. Thanks! Rising Sophomore DC is not heading in a STEM direction for college and is unsure as to whether to take on the "most rigorous courses" throughout in HS in Math/Science for admissions purposes (standard problem for many parents, I guess).

For T10-20 from public school all As (maybe an A- or two).

Mine got all As and a couple Bs. Had very rigorous curriculum in magnet though. Got into 3 Ivies/T10.

Would you share which magnet? Mine got a B last year and people keep acting like it’s not even worth applying to ivys with that. I really don’t know how much to adjust for the magnet factor.

Blair. But, we did know other kids w/ straight As who didn't get into any. DD had excellent ECs and nat'l awards. Probably should have mentioned that, but I just wanted to say that a couple Bs aren't necessarily a dealbreaker.

It might depend in part on other things, like what program he is applying to. For an unhooked boy applying for CS, one low grade will matter. For a boy applying for humanities, it might not. Similarly, a kid applying for theater can get away with lower grades. Point is, some majors are more competitive than others and for some demographics matter a lot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why you’d want to try and explain this on the application. Unless someone died or they had an illness. The rest of the world gets bad grades occasionally and doesn’t make up excuses. You base college applications on where you fit in, which is not a top school.

Clicked on this thread because DD had a similar bad grade issue just happen her junior year (looks like the final grade will be a C-, but that's still pretty low). Other grades should be B or higher, but most of those grades should have been A's. The issue for her was a medical issue that happened right at the end of first semester that caused serious emotional distress and tanked her grades (and also was and will be a recurring issue, although the current treatment seems to be working). Just wondering how she's supposed to explain this in her apps - she's not aiming for Ivys or anything, but really hoping to get into state flagship (and 9th and 10th grade GPA was almost 4.0 unweighted). Will high test scores compensate? They're currently only ok, but she'll retake in the fall.

There is a section for additional information on the common app. She could put it there or better would be to have the finale or mention medical issues and how she overcame them in the recommendation.

if you are aiming for T20, of course it matters, even DC with all A's in magnet, very high SAT and above average EC is not keeping his hope up for those schools.