Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mass shootings are less than 1% of violence and there are evidence based ways to reduce those. That doesn’t include an SRO although there is significant data showing SRO presence reduces the number of killed.

Mass shootings (planned, indiscriminate attacks) may be less than 1% of "violence" but I would like to know what percent of in-school murders they represent, for one. I don't think it's nearly as low. For two, I have found no significant data showing SRO presence reduces the number killed in a mass shooting, and not for lack of trying. Please share yours. What I have found is data showing the exact opposite. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2776515 The kind of shooter who comes to school intending to kill indiscriminately is not deterred by an SRO/armed guard, because they know full well they're unlikely to get out alive and are often suicidal anyway. I know this is a comparatively rare scenario, and I take comfort in that, but I find the fact that they ever happen completely intolerable and want very much to take action that is actually helpful, and if SROs actually increase the danger to students in these scenarios just by existing in the school with a weapon that the shooter can fantasize about dying in a shootout with, then no thank you.

The absence of an SRO doesn’t mean a school shooter wouldn’t die in a shoot-out with police. The police will come to him. It just might take a while. Although the presence of an SRO oddly doesn’t seem to change that amount of time.

Other than that, I don’t really disagree with anything you said. But there seemed to be an implicit belief that SROs are primarily there to deal with school shootings. I haven’t seen any compelling evidence to suggest they help, nor have I seen convincing evidence that they hurt.

What I think John Oliver got right is that a large part of the problem is the criminalization of behavioral incidents at schools. But that’s tangential to SROs, as far as I can tell. While there appears to be a general trend towards criminalization in schools, is there good reason to think that’s actually accelerated by the presence of SROs? Or is the presence of SROs instead the response to an increased desire by school administrators to have the police handle behavioral issues? Because if it's the latter, SROs could serve as important checks-and-balances against administrators, assuming they could be trained to push back on ridiculous requests for arrests.

Anonymous wrote:Where do JO’s kids go to school?

I think they're still around preschool age.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please go watch last night's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and learn a little more about why SROs not only don't work but cause harm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgwqQGvYt0g

If only more people were informed...

We are very informed. We just don’t agree.

I’ve done extensive reading regarding SROs because this issue affects me personally and professionally. After all I’ve seen and heard, I am solidly in support of SROs. I’m always willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, but so far I haven’t heard anything (including the video posted above) that presents a solid argument against SROs.

I want SROs. I want more counselors. I want better social / emotional learning programs. It all works together. There is absolutely no reason we can’t have all of these pieces in place to protect our children.

If you disagree, you aren't informed.

I’m going to need you to bring something more to this discussion than this sophomoric response.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

These stories touting SROs always lack enough detail to tell whether they were actually necessary to the good outcome. A staff member found the gun - would they not have been able to safely confiscate it without the SRO? Would they not have been able to call police and tell them the situation? If the story was something like "a kid was bragging about their loaded gun so a teacher called police while the SRO engaged the student safely, using their police training" then I would get it, but that's not what it sounds like happened?

Teacher here. I have absolutely no training in guns. I wouldn’t know how to HOLD it properly. Frankly, that’s not my job. SROs have training I don’t have. I want them close, so they are only a minute away when I am alerted to a weapon in my classroom. I don’t want to have to call the police who then have to DRIVE to the school to help out.

Signed - a teacher who has had to call for an SRO to remove a weapon before

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please go watch last night's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and learn a little more about why SROs not only don't work but cause harm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgwqQGvYt0g

If only more people were informed...

We are very informed. We just don’t agree.

I’ve done extensive reading regarding SROs because this issue affects me personally and professionally. After all I’ve seen and heard, I am solidly in support of SROs. I’m always willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, but so far I haven’t heard anything (including the video posted above) that presents a solid argument against SROs.

I want SROs. I want more counselors. I want better social / emotional learning programs. It all works together. There is absolutely no reason we can’t have all of these pieces in place to protect our children.

If you disagree, you aren't informed.

Anonymous wrote:A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

These stories touting SROs always lack enough detail to tell whether they were actually necessary to the good outcome. A staff member found the gun - would they not have been able to safely confiscate it without the SRO? Would they not have been able to call police and tell them the situation? If the story was something like "a kid was bragging about their loaded gun so a teacher called police while the SRO engaged the student safely, using their police training" then I would get it, but that's not what it sounds like happened?

An SRO helped stop the Michigan school shooter. The more eyes watching out in schools, the better.

A student brought a loaded gun to a pgps the other day. Staff member found it, alerted sro, who confiscated it and called police. Seems the presence of sro might have helped police know the situation they were going to encounter. The SRO may also have had knowledge of kid/situation which seems like it would be useful.

Anonymous wrote:Mass shootings are less than 1% of violence and there are evidence based ways to reduce those. That doesn’t include an SRO although there is significant data showing SRO presence reduces the number of killed.

Mass shootings (planned, indiscriminate attacks) may be less than 1% of "violence" but I would like to know what percent of in-school murders they represent, for one. I don't think it's nearly as low. For two, I have found no significant data showing SRO presence reduces the number killed in a mass shooting, and not for lack of trying. Please share yours. What I have found is data showing the exact opposite. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2776515 The kind of shooter who comes to school intending to kill indiscriminately is not deterred by an SRO/armed guard, because they know full well they're unlikely to get out alive and are often suicidal anyway. I know this is a comparatively rare scenario, and I take comfort in that, but I find the fact that they ever happen completely intolerable and want very much to take action that is actually helpful, and if SROs actually increase the danger to students in these scenarios just by existing in the school with a weapon that the shooter can fantasize about dying in a shootout with, then no thank you.

Anonymous wrote:Please go watch last night's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and learn a little more about why SROs not only don't work but cause harm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgwqQGvYt0g

Every single High School principal at MCPS wanted to keep the SROs. All of them. Those of you who keep demonizing SROs at MCPS have no clue. My kid goes to a high school (that everyone here sh*ts on) where there are fights on a regular basis and yes, most of the victims are black or brown kids. Teachers and staff can't be expected to constantly break up these fights. I saw a video recently how one teacher was hit on the face trying to break up one. Maybe you all go to some fancy school where these fights aren't tolerated or don't occur but perhaps you should actually look at the MCPS data and listen to the actual parents, staff, and kids at the schools where these incidents are actually happening instead of reading studies or watching videos that are irrelevant to MCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please go watch last night's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and learn a little more about why SROs not only don't work but cause harm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgwqQGvYt0g

If only more people were informed...

We are very informed. We just don’t agree.

I’ve done extensive reading regarding SROs because this issue affects me personally and professionally. After all I’ve seen and heard, I am solidly in support of SROs. I’m always willing to listen to opposing viewpoints, but so far I haven’t heard anything (including the video posted above) that presents a solid argument against SROs.

I want SROs. I want more counselors. I want better social / emotional learning programs. It all works together. There is absolutely no reason we can’t have all of these pieces in place to protect our children.

Anonymous wrote:Please go watch last night's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and learn a little more about why SROs not only don't work but cause harm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgwqQGvYt0g

If only more people were informed...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think an SRO will protect my kid from a school shooter situation. But I think they are needed to deal with in school regular violence so that that does not fall to the teachers or other staff.

All the evidence suggests otherwise and SROs just make things worse.

So, again, then why do Principals want SROs in school? And it's not to absolve themselves of responsibility as a PP has already proven to be otherwise. The vast vast majority of the times when cops were called were initiated by the school admin. They clearly felt that whatever security they had was not adequate enough to deal with the situation.

Nothing MCPS has done has reduced the violence, either.

All the principals I know think it's a terrible idea. Where do you get the idea that they're for this?

"All the principals I know"

I asked the principals at both my kids schools about it at PTA meetings and they more or less stated it wasn't necessary or helpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think an SRO will protect my kid from a school shooter situation. But I think they are needed to deal with in school regular violence so that that does not fall to the teachers or other staff.

All the evidence suggests otherwise and SROs just make things worse.

So, again, then why do Principals want SROs in school? And it's not to absolve themselves of responsibility as a PP has already proven to be otherwise. The vast vast majority of the times when cops were called were initiated by the school admin. They clearly felt that whatever security they had was not adequate enough to deal with the situation.

Nothing MCPS has done has reduced the violence, either.

All the principals I know think it's a terrible idea. Where do you get the idea that they're for this?

"All the principals I know"

Anonymous wrote:Please go watch last night's episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver and learn a little more about why SROs not only don't work but cause harm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgwqQGvYt0g

One major problem with his characterization of the problem is an implicit assumption that the bad acts by police and school administrators wouldn’t happen if not for SROs.

Namely, principals are still going to call the police for ridiculous things regardless of whether or not there’s already an officer in the building. Better administrators and policies are important, but better-trained police are important, too. And the only to have a real chance at that is to have an SRO program with specific training for that role.