Anonymous wrote:As far as athletics at a W school, I am often in sticker shock as to what parents are expected to pay so our child can participate on a team and the range of expense per sport. Cheer was about $500 with uniforms, bows, shoes, etc. Football was $350 but that included pregame meals but didn’t include equipment costs that were an additional $200. Banquet tickets were always extra and were usually $100 per parent.

We do have a small portion of section 8 families in our school, so I often wonder if they feel discouraged to participate because of the high cost to participate.

My DC was in the selective All-County Chorus. Students were instructed to wear their choral "uniforms" from their home school. I have to admit - I was impressed that the male Whitman singers wore tails! I don't begrudge them this, but I am sure that they are expensive and not economically accessible to students from many other MCPS schools. I loved hearing our students sing together, however.

DP. Sigh. You just don't get it. I have an opinion that goes like this:

Has nothing to do with W's getting more resources (they don't). MCPS already tips the scales to Title I's, Focus Schools, and the SS and Poolesville area as far as extra resources go.

And when teachers leave a Title I or Focus School it has nothing to do with money. It's normally about the administration, covid, crime / safety, and whether they're getting through to the kids or not. Ex. Teachers have it easier at a W because there are fewer kids out of control.

However, the main difference between schools are the parents. Parents with the funds pay for tutoring, extracurriculars, etc. Parents that are well educated stress education at home.

On the other hand, schools with parents on drugs, partying late on school nights, subjecting kids to abuse at home, leaving the kids outside after dark, in trouble with the law themselves - these are issues the teachers just can't deal with.

By all means - go ahead and bus or redistrict to bring "equity" to all schools. Ship all the poor delinquent kids to the W's or wherever. You know what's going to happen then? For the academically inclined kids, everything will be fine. For the violent kids, the fastest school-to-jail pipeline ever. The rest, the meh kids, will just be isolated and shunned at the school. Why? It has nothing to do with race or poverty folks. You can't force or mandate respect - it has to be earned.

If you put kids with mediocre grades and not much academic motivation at home into a class full of super competitive kids, it won't make the mediocre kids smarter - it will make them want to drop out of school altogether. Most schools pretty much have the same material up until Middle School. If the kids don't have the motivation to study evenings and weekends to be in Algebra by 7th on their own, do you really think you're doing a kid a favor by moving them into a different school?

Same goes with parents with resources. Well-resourced parents protect their children with those resources. Lawyers, lobbyists, private investigators, ads, news stories and whatever else it legally takes to protect their children from school safety issues or interfering with how their children are raised.

So don't blame the teachers for leaving if they don't want to deal with the B.S. plans written by the Central Office crackpots. They know better than to drink the kool-aid.

Think I'm wrong? Go ahead. Sounds like a great idea. I dare the board and the sup to do it. Let's see what happens.

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between what MCPS is required to provided vs parental expectation of what should be provided.

For instance Marching Band isn’t a requirement, its a nice to music extra curricular activity that most families expect to be present. After school enrichment programs, again not required but a nice to have that builds community and provides something for kids to do/learn. “Extra teaching supplies beyond curriculum or agreed to class projects Is another nice to have.

Involved parents and communities have a great impact on what becomes of a school. Involved communities w/ money can do even more.

Not all schools have Marching Band. Churchill is an example of a school parents have asked for years to have Marching Band but there still is not the opportunity. DCC schools have Marching Band. They have opportunities a W school doesn’t have.

Yes, there are many inequities in MCPS and it’s not in the direction OP falsely believes.

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Impressive!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

Wheaton has a new building, two excellent STEM magnets, and an AP participation rate much higher than 2%.

Yes. For Wheaton's class of '21, 61% took at least one AP exam.

There is a big difference between what MCPS is required to provided vs parental expectation of what should be provided.

For instance Marching Band isn’t a requirement, its a nice to music extra curricular activity that most families expect to be present. After school enrichment programs, again not required but a nice to have that builds community and provides something for kids to do/learn. “Extra teaching supplies beyond curriculum or agreed to class projects Is another nice to have.

Involved parents and communities have a great impact on what becomes of a school. Involved communities w/ money can do even more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

Wheaton has a new building, two excellent STEM magnets, and an AP participation rate much higher than 2%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W schools may have more money from boosters and some nicer things for athletics (but it is becoming more even), but take a look at the Wheaton High School matriculation list this year and any jealousy might disappear (it’s pretty amazing — CalTech, a couple MITs, Harvard, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Swathmore and many more. It is an impressive list).

Super Jealous of Wheaton by looking at the few kids who made it though one can totally overlook the 50% FARMS rate, poor test scores, almost unmeasurable AP participation rate (2%),high dropout and suspension rate. It's a Gem

The point I think the PP was making is that your child would have a much better chance to shine instead of the miniscule chance they have among the strivers of a W school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as athletics at a W school, I am often in sticker shock as to what parents are expected to pay so our child can participate on a team and the range of expense per sport. Cheer was about $500 with uniforms, bows, shoes, etc. Football was $350 but that included pregame meals but didn’t include equipment costs that were an additional $200. Banquet tickets were always extra and were usually $100 per parent.

We do have a small portion of section 8 families in our school, so I often wonder if they feel discouraged to participate because of the high cost to participate.

Apologies to any hockey parents who read that.

Hockey is a club sport, not an official MCPS sport.

Club or not, why is PP shocked?

Breaking news: kids are expensive!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Make no mistake, MCPS talks a big game about equity but they cave a lot to the squeakiest wheels which are wealthy white parents.

This is hysterical [NOT], as my children are at a W, and we get ignored by MCPS and the BOE. They cave to everything for TP/SS. If we want something done, we have to fund it ourselves, which are fortunate to be able to do. But it has nothing to do with MCPS caving to us, and everything to do with parents spending money on things that should have been provided.

Please describe the things that MCPS should have provided, that the parents provided instead.

I'd like to see the response to this as well. I was PTA president at a non-W/ non-Title I school and there were quite a few things that the county was supposed to provide, and would have provided, had the principal been willing to push hard enough. But MCPS makes it so hard to get certain materials and services that it's easier to just have the PTA/parents fund it so they can get it done quicker and circumvent the system. I'm not saying this is always the case but I saw it happen over and over again at my kids' school. We had a good fundraising program in place so the money wasn't an issue but it's hard to convince the school administration to fight with the central office when the PTA is willing/able to be an ATM.

Okay. Can you describe the items or services that MCPS should have provided to your school, that the PTA did instead?

Paper towels, disinfecting wipes, landscaping supplies/mulch/groundskeeping labor. Off the top of my head.

My kid is at a FOCUS school in the DCC and the PTA also has to dredge up money for these things. As well as playground balls and after school programs and all sorts of other things that you probably take for granted will be paid for by your PTA or otherwise provided.

MCPS is required to provide certain things to the schools. Unfortunately, "extra" classroom supplies are often not provided and teachers go into their own pockets if the PTA doesn't step in. Ditto some of the other things they see as "extra." Now, this is a problem! But these are not things-- again, unfortunately-- that they are required to provide, and it is not an issue that disproportionately affects wealthier schools.

What is not happening (for the most part) is that things MCPS is actually required to provide are being provided to poorer schools and not wealthier ones, except where the requirements for different schools differ based on county policy for things like FARMS rates (e.g., more teachers to keep smaller class sizes).

So poor schools don't get art teachers for free from MCPS, but rich schools have to raise money to pay an art teacher. Poor schools don't get beautiful new desks every 3 years, but rich schools have to raise money for them.

The difference is that, for the things MCPS doesn't have to provide, the poor schools mostly go without. The rich schools have them, but have to pay for them out of pocket.

For the things MCPS does have to provide to all schools, the rich schools are more likely to receive them in a timely manner than the poor schools IME, because of the parents' greater political and economic influence.

For things MCPS has to provide specifically to poor schools, sure, poor schools are more likely to have them. Oh, well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as athletics at a W school, I am often in sticker shock as to what parents are expected to pay so our child can participate on a team and the range of expense per sport. Cheer was about $500 with uniforms, bows, shoes, etc. Football was $350 but that included pregame meals but didn’t include equipment costs that were an additional $200. Banquet tickets were always extra and were usually $100 per parent.

We do have a small portion of section 8 families in our school, so I often wonder if they feel discouraged to participate because of the high cost to participate.

Apologies to any hockey parents who read that.

Hockey is a club sport, not an official MCPS sport.

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, some wealthier PTA’s give hundreds of dollars to teachers to purchase supplies, have grants for larger purchases, support teachers with food, messages, awards etc. The boosters make sure the sports teams and music programs have the best equipment and uniforms. I don’t think there is much difference in teaching overall, but anything outside of the classroom has a big difference between wealthy and poor schools. Over time staff end up gravitating to schools easier to commute to more than anything else. Poorer neighborhoods don’t have a lot of good overall housing/location for teachers. If a poor school is getting more money it is going to special programs and staffing that high most achieving students are not part of.

...how much money do you think teachers make that you think they are more likely to live in wealthier areas? I live in SS/TP and we have a ton of neighbors who teach in the wealthier MCPS schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make no mistake, MCPS talks a big game about equity but they cave a lot to the squeakiest wheels which are wealthy white parents.

This is hysterical [NOT], as my children are at a W, and we get ignored by MCPS and the BOE. They cave to everything for TP/SS. If we want something done, we have to fund it ourselves, which are fortunate to be able to do. But it has nothing to do with MCPS caving to us, and everything to do with parents spending money on things that should have been provided.

What do they cave to for "TP/SS"? Yes, MCPS is required to use Title I dollars for Title I schools. It also receives additional funding from the state based on FARMS, ESOL and special education enrollment, much (but not all of which) goes to serve those students, because those students have additional needs that our policymakers have decided to provide some funding for. Are you begrudging those programs? Or what else is "TP/SS" getting that your "W" is not?

IKR? "MCPS gives more resources to poorer students with greater needs, and I for one am outraged that my very well-resourced kids go to an 'academically stronger' school where the parents who can afford it make sure the school is well-supplied!"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make no mistake, MCPS talks a big game about equity but they cave a lot to the squeakiest wheels which are wealthy white parents.

This is hysterical [NOT], as my children are at a W, and we get ignored by MCPS and the BOE. They cave to everything for TP/SS. If we want something done, we have to fund it ourselves, which are fortunate to be able to do. But it has nothing to do with MCPS caving to us, and everything to do with parents spending money on things that should have been provided.

What do they cave to for "TP/SS"? Yes, MCPS is required to use Title I dollars for Title I schools. It also receives additional funding from the state based on FARMS, ESOL and special education enrollment, much (but not all of which) goes to serve those students, because those students have additional needs that our policymakers have decided to provide some funding for. Are you begrudging those programs? Or what else is "TP/SS" getting that your "W" is not?

One more domain of inequity is awareness of and access to services for various health needs (disruptive behavior disorders, vision/hearing problems, etc.), especially early in childhood. Such disparities are likely to have impact at both the individual and classroom level.