Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God did not send the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus without Mary’s consent; Mary’s full verbal consent was required and obtained before Jesus was conceived. God waited for consent; and it was not “implied” or “presumed” consent. Luke 1:38 is clearly Mary’s full consent to God’s plan.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. 39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; 40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and asaluted Elisabeth.

Dude, read Luke 1:31-33. It was a done deal, she really had no say in the matter. This assumes of course Luke, whoever that was, could possibly have known what circumstances led to Jesus's birth since he wasn't there at the time and could not possibly have known what the angel said to Mary.

BTW, not to put to fine a point on this, but she was likely 14 or 15 at the time.

Anonymous wrote:I was the victim of physical and sexual abuse by my (then) husband. I went to the pastor. He told me (1) Suffering leads to righteousness (2) I should be more submissive (3) I need to make my husband feel like the head if the household (4) I should be more available to meet his needs (5) Divorce is never an option for a Christian. It nearly destroyed my faith. And he later tried to take my life.

This was a southern baptist church in Virginia.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God did not send the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus without Mary’s consent; Mary’s full verbal consent was required and obtained before Jesus was conceived. God waited for consent; and it was not “implied” or “presumed” consent. Luke 1:38 is clearly Mary’s full consent to God’s plan.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. 39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; 40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and asaluted Elisabeth.

Dude, read Luke 1:31-33. It was a done deal, she really had no say in the matter. This assumes of course Luke, whoever that was, could possibly have known what circumstances led to Jesus's birth since he wasn't there at the time and could not possibly have known what the angel said to Mary.

Plus, in those days, no one asked a woman what she wanted. They simply told her want was going to happen to her.

Here is the account of Mary learning that she'll be the mother of Christ, as told in the first chapter of Luke's gospel:

In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."

And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?"

And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God." And Mary said, "Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

The literal words in the Bible (across various translations) make clear that the angel Gabriel's words at the Annunciation convey to Mary what will happen, not what has happened, a future conception not a past one.

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/let-it-be-marys-radical-declaration-of-consent/266616/

What about the selling of young girls to old men as is common in Islam? Forced marriages between girls who are 9 years old to elderly men?

How is that evil ignored in this thread?

What part of the word you will conceive do you not understand? This was an announcement. She wasn't being asked.

Wrong. Mary asked how she would possibly conceive since she was a virgin, and was told the Holy Spirit would come upon her. She was asking how it would happen. It wasn’t an announcement, it was an answer to her question.

She consented.

NO. She was told you will conceive. Then she asked how. Luke 1:31

She consented? Really. She was about 15 years old if that. And after being told God is going to impregnate you, she reasonably concluded from this statement that it was inevitable. Like she's going to tell the most powerful entity in the universe "no."?

Anonymous wrote:As a Christian AND a sexual assault survivor I am beyond offended by this thread.

I was assaulted by a sinner, a flawed man, not the church or the Bible. Christianity does not "allow" sexual assault. Some Christians might. Just like some atheists might. Or some Muslims might. You can't classify an entire group of people based on the actions or views of a few.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God did not send the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus without Mary’s consent; Mary’s full verbal consent was required and obtained before Jesus was conceived. God waited for consent; and it was not “implied” or “presumed” consent. Luke 1:38 is clearly Mary’s full consent to God’s plan.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. 39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; 40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and asaluted Elisabeth.

Dude, read Luke 1:31-33. It was a done deal, she really had no say in the matter. This assumes of course Luke, whoever that was, could possibly have known what circumstances led to Jesus's birth since he wasn't there at the time and could not possibly have known what the angel said to Mary.

Plus, in those days, no one asked a woman what she wanted. They simply told her want was going to happen to her.

Here is the account of Mary learning that she'll be the mother of Christ, as told in the first chapter of Luke's gospel:

In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."

And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?"

And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God." And Mary said, "Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

The literal words in the Bible (across various translations) make clear that the angel Gabriel's words at the Annunciation convey to Mary what will happen, not what has happened, a future conception not a past one.

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/let-it-be-marys-radical-declaration-of-consent/266616/

What about the selling of young girls to old men as is common in Islam? Forced marriages between girls who are 9 years old to elderly men?

How is that evil ignored in this thread?

What part of the word you will conceive do you not understand? This was an announcement. She wasn't being asked.

Wrong. Mary asked how she would possibly conceive since she was a virgin, and was told the Holy Spirit would come upon her. She was asking how it would happen. It wasn’t an announcement, it was an answer to her question.

She consented.

NO. She was told you will conceive. Then she asked how. Luke 1:31

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God did not send the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus without Mary’s consent; Mary’s full verbal consent was required and obtained before Jesus was conceived. God waited for consent; and it was not “implied” or “presumed” consent. Luke 1:38 is clearly Mary’s full consent to God’s plan.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. 39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; 40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and asaluted Elisabeth.

Dude, read Luke 1:31-33. It was a done deal, she really had no say in the matter. This assumes of course Luke, whoever that was, could possibly have known what circumstances led to Jesus's birth since he wasn't there at the time and could not possibly have known what the angel said to Mary.

Plus, in those days, no one asked a woman what she wanted. They simply told her want was going to happen to her.

Here is the account of Mary learning that she'll be the mother of Christ, as told in the first chapter of Luke's gospel:

In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."

And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?"

And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God." And Mary said, "Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

The literal words in the Bible (across various translations) make clear that the angel Gabriel's words at the Annunciation convey to Mary what will happen, not what has happened, a future conception not a past one.

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/let-it-be-marys-radical-declaration-of-consent/266616/

What about the selling of young girls to old men as is common in Islam? Forced marriages between girls who are 9 years old to elderly men?

How is that evil ignored in this thread?

What part of the word you will conceive do you not understand? This was an announcement. She wasn't being asked.

Wrong. Mary asked how she would possibly conceive since she was a virgin, and was told the Holy Spirit would come upon her. She was asking how it would happen. It wasn’t an announcement, it was an answer to her question.

She consented.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God did not send the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus without Mary’s consent; Mary’s full verbal consent was required and obtained before Jesus was conceived. God waited for consent; and it was not “implied” or “presumed” consent. Luke 1:38 is clearly Mary’s full consent to God’s plan.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. 39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; 40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and asaluted Elisabeth.

Dude, read Luke 1:31-33. It was a done deal, she really had no say in the matter. This assumes of course Luke, whoever that was, could possibly have known what circumstances led to Jesus's birth since he wasn't there at the time and could not possibly have known what the angel said to Mary.

Plus, in those days, no one asked a woman what she wanted. They simply told her want was going to happen to her.

Here is the account of Mary learning that she'll be the mother of Christ, as told in the first chapter of Luke's gospel:

In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!" But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."

And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?"

And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God. And behold, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son, and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren. For nothing will be impossible with God." And Mary said, "Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." And the angel departed from her.

The literal words in the Bible (across various translations) make clear that the angel Gabriel's words at the Annunciation convey to Mary what will happen, not what has happened, a future conception not a past one.

https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/let-it-be-marys-radical-declaration-of-consent/266616/

What about the selling of young girls to old men as is common in Islam? Forced marriages between girls who are 9 years old to elderly men?

How is that evil ignored in this thread?

What part of the word you will conceive do you not understand? This was an announcement. She wasn't being asked.

Anonymous wrote:Too many churches have had sex abuse scandals, particularly involving children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God did not send the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus without Mary’s consent; Mary’s full verbal consent was required and obtained before Jesus was conceived. God waited for consent; and it was not “implied” or “presumed” consent. Luke 1:38 is clearly Mary’s full consent to God’s plan.

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. 39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; 40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and asaluted Elisabeth.

Dude, read Luke 1:31-33. It was a done deal, she really had no say in the matter. This assumes of course Luke, whoever that was, could possibly have known what circumstances led to Jesus's birth since he wasn't there at the time and could not possibly have known what the angel said to Mary.

Anonymous wrote:I was the victim of physical and sexual abuse by my (then) husband. I went to the pastor. He told me (1) Suffering leads to righteousness (2) I should be more submissive (3) I need to make my husband feel like the head if the household (4) I should be more available to meet his needs (5) Divorce is never an option for a Christian. It nearly destroyed my faith. And he later tried to take my life.

This was a southern baptist church in Virginia.