Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious folks: is there a "heaven"? And do you get in only if you're saved? Yes or no? There's a lot of wiggling and waffling on this in the above posts. I'm just trying to understand.

My answer from a background of protestantism that I have evolved for myself:

No there is no heaven. So no, salvation has no meaning to something that does not exist.

Cool. Thank-you. I wonder why the Lord's Prayer starts out "Our father who art in heaven...

^ just to add: the next line is "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." So I guess some people would say there is a heaven

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious folks: is there a "heaven"? And do you get in only if you're saved? Yes or no? There's a lot of wiggling and waffling on this in the above posts. I'm just trying to understand.

My answer from a background of protestantism that I have evolved for myself:

No there is no heaven. So no, salvation has no meaning to something that does not exist.

Cool. Thank-you. I wonder why the Lord's Prayer starts out "Our father who art in heaven...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Religious folks: is there a "heaven"? And do you get in only if you're saved? Yes or no? There's a lot of wiggling and waffling on this in the above posts. I'm just trying to understand.

My answer from a background of protestantism that I have evolved for myself:

No there is no heaven. So no, salvation has no meaning to something that does not exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m Catholic, and I have been told that there is only one person that we can be certain is not in Heaven, and that is Judas, and I have been told that there is no one we can be certain is not in Heaven.

There are many people that the Catholic Church recognizes as saints who have died and gone to Heaven, but I have never heard of the opposite of that, namely people we know for sure are not in Heaven.

So, while baptism places a mark on your soul that you are part of the Church, it doesn’t mean that you are bound for Heaven or that others are not. There is no way to know that.

There is no way to know almost everything about religion. It is a question of belief.

I personally view baptism as a symbolic expression- much like all of the sacraments. Baptism is a symbolic expression of joining a faith and dedicating oneself (or a parent dedicating the baby to it I guess). The same goes with marriage and communion.

None of them are determinative regarding salvation or "getting into heaven."

So then there’s really no importance attached to being “saved”?

Yeah, now I'm confused too. So is getting into "heaven" different from having "eternal life?" Cuz that's what John 3:16 says you'll have if you believeth in Him.

It isn't really about death. It is about fear of death, and having meaning in life.

? what is. The question was is heaven the same as eternal life? Whatever you're trying to say is totally non-responsive.

I'll elaborate. I believe that the phrase and concept of "eternal life" in Christianity is not really about heaven. It is about an approach to life while you live it- a sense of security and purpose in that life.
So, no. Eternal life is not the same as heaven as a "place" you go to after you die.

Anonymous wrote:Religious folks: is there a "heaven"? And do you get in only if you're saved? Yes or no? There's a lot of wiggling and waffling on this in the above posts. I'm just trying to understand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m Catholic, and I have been told that there is only one person that we can be certain is not in Heaven, and that is Judas, and I have been told that there is no one we can be certain is not in Heaven.

There are many people that the Catholic Church recognizes as saints who have died and gone to Heaven, but I have never heard of the opposite of that, namely people we know for sure are not in Heaven.

So, while baptism places a mark on your soul that you are part of the Church, it doesn’t mean that you are bound for Heaven or that others are not. There is no way to know that.

There is no way to know almost everything about religion. It is a question of belief.

I personally view baptism as a symbolic expression- much like all of the sacraments. Baptism is a symbolic expression of joining a faith and dedicating oneself (or a parent dedicating the baby to it I guess). The same goes with marriage and communion.

None of them are determinative regarding salvation or "getting into heaven."

So then there’s really no importance attached to being “saved”?

Yeah, now I'm confused too. So is getting into "heaven" different from having "eternal life?" Cuz that's what John 3:16 says you'll have if you believeth in Him.

It isn't really about death. It is about fear of death, and having meaning in life.

? what is. The question was is heaven the same as eternal life? Whatever you're trying to say is totally non-responsive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m Catholic, and I have been told that there is only one person that we can be certain is not in Heaven, and that is Judas, and I have been told that there is no one we can be certain is not in Heaven.

There are many people that the Catholic Church recognizes as saints who have died and gone to Heaven, but I have never heard of the opposite of that, namely people we know for sure are not in Heaven.

So, while baptism places a mark on your soul that you are part of the Church, it doesn’t mean that you are bound for Heaven or that others are not. There is no way to know that.

There is no way to know almost everything about religion. It is a question of belief.

I personally view baptism as a symbolic expression- much like all of the sacraments. Baptism is a symbolic expression of joining a faith and dedicating oneself (or a parent dedicating the baby to it I guess). The same goes with marriage and communion.

None of them are determinative regarding salvation or "getting into heaven."

So then there’s really no importance attached to being “saved”?

Yeah, now I'm confused too. So is getting into "heaven" different from having "eternal life?" Cuz that's what John 3:16 says you'll have if you believeth in Him.

It’s my understanding that everyone has eternal life. Whether or not that’s Heaven kind of depends on you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m Catholic, and I have been told that there is only one person that we can be certain is not in Heaven, and that is Judas, and I have been told that there is no one we can be certain is not in Heaven.

There are many people that the Catholic Church recognizes as saints who have died and gone to Heaven, but I have never heard of the opposite of that, namely people we know for sure are not in Heaven.

So, while baptism places a mark on your soul that you are part of the Church, it doesn’t mean that you are bound for Heaven or that others are not. There is no way to know that.

There is no way to know almost everything about religion. It is a question of belief.

I personally view baptism as a symbolic expression- much like all of the sacraments. Baptism is a symbolic expression of joining a faith and dedicating oneself (or a parent dedicating the baby to it I guess). The same goes with marriage and communion.

None of them are determinative regarding salvation or "getting into heaven."

So then there’s really no importance attached to being “saved”?

Yeah, now I'm confused too. So is getting into "heaven" different from having "eternal life?" Cuz that's what John 3:16 says you'll have if you believeth in Him.

It isn't really about death. It is about fear of death, and having meaning in life.

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous to put the Creative Consciousness of all that is, in a box. God is bigger than any sacrament. Does that mean sacraments aren’t important? No. They are outward expressions of our faith. But they are for us. Not God. God doesn’t care whether or not another human dunked you in or sprinkled you with water.

Just my opinion as a minister who has done hundreds of baptisms. It can be beautiful demonstration of faith. But, it’s most certainly not necessary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that anti-religion posters pose questions to make religion seem cruel, then flee and watch as people comment on their fake dilemma.

DP here. So let's say you are correct, for the sake of discussion.

Is that an illegitimate practice here? Is it possible OP feels religion is cruel, and wants to illustrate that in a religion forum? Is that not allowed?

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that anti-religion posters pose questions to make religion seem cruel, then flee and watch as people comment on their fake dilemma.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m Catholic, and I have been told that there is only one person that we can be certain is not in Heaven, and that is Judas, and I have been told that there is no one we can be certain is not in Heaven.

There are many people that the Catholic Church recognizes as saints who have died and gone to Heaven, but I have never heard of the opposite of that, namely people we know for sure are not in Heaven.

So, while baptism places a mark on your soul that you are part of the Church, it doesn’t mean that you are bound for Heaven or that others are not. There is no way to know that.

There is no way to know almost everything about religion. It is a question of belief.

I personally view baptism as a symbolic expression- much like all of the sacraments. Baptism is a symbolic expression of joining a faith and dedicating oneself (or a parent dedicating the baby to it I guess). The same goes with marriage and communion.

None of them are determinative regarding salvation or "getting into heaven."

So then there’s really no importance attached to being “saved”?

Yeah, now I'm confused too. So is getting into "heaven" different from having "eternal life?" Cuz that's what John 3:16 says you'll have if you believeth in Him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m Catholic, and I have been told that there is only one person that we can be certain is not in Heaven, and that is Judas, and I have been told that there is no one we can be certain is not in Heaven.

There are many people that the Catholic Church recognizes as saints who have died and gone to Heaven, but I have never heard of the opposite of that, namely people we know for sure are not in Heaven.

So, while baptism places a mark on your soul that you are part of the Church, it doesn’t mean that you are bound for Heaven or that others are not. There is no way to know that.

Correct -- a baptized person can sin after being baptized and go to hell for eternity for his/her sin while here on Earth.