Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:49
Subject: How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
My son plays all the rec league sports all year long plus one travel sport, which works for him and for me because I'm an introvert and I work a lot.
Will this approach work for my younger daughter? Say she does ballet and gymnastics plus we put her in team sports throughout the year? Is that enough for girls to form a social group? I literally hate organizing playdates and my limited time off. We usually spend our weekends at our older kid's sports games, or skiing or hiking.
Will this approach work for my younger daughter? Say she does ballet and gymnastics plus we put her in team sports throughout the year? Is that enough for girls to form a social group? I literally hate organizing playdates and my limited time off. We usually spend our weekends at our older kid's sports games, or skiing or hiking.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:43
Subject: Re:How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
I have a middle schooler who much to my shock has become "cool" in middle school. He's in 7th grade. He was not cool in elementary school. He's not sporty.
He's tall. I am not tall so I am shocked by how much that seems to help. He's nice looking. He's very comfortable talking to all different kinds of people. He's pretty fun and silly and has a good sense of humor. Has always been very comfortable talking to girls. The boys who can talk to and be friends with girls in middle school get a lot of social points.
I think it's a terrible thing to focus on or for them to focus on and I wish my kid just had a nice group of friends and that was the end of it. But they all notice and it's a lot to ask them not to care about it. I think and hope they grow out of caring.
He's tall. I am not tall so I am shocked by how much that seems to help. He's nice looking. He's very comfortable talking to all different kinds of people. He's pretty fun and silly and has a good sense of humor. Has always been very comfortable talking to girls. The boys who can talk to and be friends with girls in middle school get a lot of social points.
I think it's a terrible thing to focus on or for them to focus on and I wish my kid just had a nice group of friends and that was the end of it. But they all notice and it's a lot to ask them not to care about it. I think and hope they grow out of caring.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:37
Subject: Re:How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
I think it's pretty different in elementary vs middle school/high school.
Elementary it's sports bros and girls who have figured out how to navigate group social dynamics. High EQ. And some parental dynamics at play.
In middle school it becomes a lot more about looks, honestly. Being good looking and being able to attract the attention of and interact successfully with the opposite sex becomes more important. And of course the basics of being relatively outgoing, friendly, confident, charisma, etc.
Elementary it's sports bros and girls who have figured out how to navigate group social dynamics. High EQ. And some parental dynamics at play.
In middle school it becomes a lot more about looks, honestly. Being good looking and being able to attract the attention of and interact successfully with the opposite sex becomes more important. And of course the basics of being relatively outgoing, friendly, confident, charisma, etc.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:37
Subject: How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
In my observation, they often have older siblings, so learn about things before younger kids might on their own.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:34
Subject: Re:How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
Anonymous wrote:I was very much NOT cool, and was surprised to have daughters who are. I will focus on my oldest, because that's when it surprised me (after her, I figured I just produce cool kids, like some people produce lefties). I learned she was cool in 1st grade when we were walking down the hallway in her school at the end of the day and a 5th grader said goodbye to her from down the hall. How did a 5th grader know her?! Who was that girl?! "That's my friend."
- not super sensitive. You got the piece of paper that's someone else's favorite color? DD will trade so you can have it, no problem and doesn't care that she got navy blue or dark brown (colors hard to color on).
- she's kind in meaningful ways . You don't have anywhere to sit because there's no room? She'll get everyone to smush over to make room for you. You were in a rush this morning and don't have lunch? She'll share hers.
- she's confident deep in her soul. Walking into a room of kids she doesn't know, doesn't phase her. She'd march right in and walk up to some kid and say "You're wearing my favorite color! You love purple too?" and in ten minutes you'd think they'd been friends for three years the way they're giggling together.
- she can defuse tense situations by using humor. she could stop bullying, smooth over embarrassing moments, etc.
- she has a couple of cool skills - she is very good at art and if someone was sad she'd sometimes draw them a picture. she's very good at imitating people and would do imitations of people's moms, a sub who was old and from the deep South, etc. people like people who can do tricks.
We were poor and sometimes her clothes looked poor. At one point her backpack was held together with duct tape. So it wasn't being rich or having a lot of fancy stuff. I think the younger girls, while also confident and having a lot of the same qualities listed above that the oldest has, also benefitted by being related to her. "Oh, you're R's little sister? She's cool, so you're cool too." They were popular by association.
Yup. I have three kids, and one is objectively cool. He has these traits, too. I hope they keep using their powers for good!
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:31
Subject: Re:How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
Anonymous wrote:My DS is in 4th and there is definitely a cool group, particularly for girls. For the girls, it has nothing to do with their parents or social engineering. They're the girls who appear to be aware of their looks (not in a sexual or precocious way or anything but in more a groomed fashion way) sooner and have grasped group dynamic skills faster. I think it's mainly the group dynamics skills. I personally was late bloomer to those skills and it showed.
For the boys, it's mainly the sports bros. My own DS is not a sports bro but he's totally fine anyway.
While I am aware of this through his teacher and the school counselor (DS has ADHD and has contact with her), we're not at all concerned with it. It's all good.
This is what we have seen too, if we are talking about popular/alpha kids, which I think is a bit different from both “cool” and “well liked” kids. By 4th grade, there were a group of girls with good social skills focused on looks and group dynamics. This group picked the boys they wanted to spend time with, usually good-looking athletic ones, but sometimes also outgoing boys who were entertaining to be around. The boys often seemed pretty clueless about this dynamic. We were completely mystified in late ES and early MS when random girls would decide to ride the bus home with our son to hang out. He never initiated any of these meetups. We were very thankful to have a full time nanny at that point to make sure nothing but TV watching and homework happened.
I don’t think DS independently sought out girls he was interested in until HS.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:25
Subject: How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
Anonymous wrote:Parents and social engineering.
100%
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:12
Subject: How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
Read the book Queen Bee and Wannabees. Girls have an elaborate social structure, however mean it is. And it is the same one we had as kids.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:06
Subject: How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Parents and social engineering.
This is the answer. Although, my kids' school does not really have cool/popular to the extent others do. I think it has something to do with the fact that it is very, very diverse. The kids are (not perfect but) pretty accepting of each other.
However, I participate in this actively. For two reasons:
1. I like a certain group of moms. We became friends in K, our kids became friends, and now we're all becoming "family friends" which is lovely and a great way to grow up IMHO.
2. This kid group is somewhat nerdy. That's who I am, that's who my kids are, and I think that's the way for them to have the social support they need.
In a different school these kids may be considered dorky or unpopular, but I'd say even if popularity exists to some extent, they are close to the top. Idk why.
In case anyone is wondering, we are not UMC, I'd say solidly MC. We all work.
My only problem with this is that you're actively leaving out kids with families you don't know. It's sad for all the other kids. It's sad for parents like me who moved here after K or were really busy with work and didn't have a chance to participate in PTA/other activities until this year. I see that you're already friends and that even though I've tried, it's very clear that you're not interested in making new friends.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:02
Subject: Re:How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
Anonymous wrote:There's a heavy race/class component to this in our ES right now. Most of the kids don't seem that concerned yet or overly cliquish, but there is one group of girls that is playing with ranking/excluding others, defining themselves as a group and calling themselves "popular." I harbor no ill will-- they're just kids. But it's certainly notable that they are all of a certain class and virtually all of a certain race. I don't think this is even typical at our school, but it seems to have taken root in one year's cohort.
To answer the question about my school when I was that age, I think it was 1) preternatural social awareness (used for both good and ill), 2) genuine confidence, and 3) looks as a distant, but still significant, third. I remember there being 4 girls that were the solidly popular girls in the class (with 2-3 more on the periphery), and 3 of the 4 were quite pretty, but the ~Queen Bee just wasn't, really. Athletics didn't come into it at all, as I recall. There wasn't much correlation with stage of puberty, either.
As for the group at my kid's school, at least in her grade, I genuinely see no other connection, no other shared attributes or distinctions but race and class. I also don't know to what extent other kids actually consider them popular, though. I think their behavior/self-definition has had some influence, maybe slightly raised their social status on average, but the whole thing is probably ignored completely by half or more of the other kids.
That's 100% on their moms.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:02
Subject: How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
Anonymous wrote:Do any of you remember when you were in school? It's not a public vs. private school thing, there were cool kids and regular kids (even back in the OLD days!).
As to what makes cool kids cool might depend on what the school culture is like but in general these kids have charisma and confidence.
+1 And I generally think it's something they are born with.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 13:02
Subject: How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
Is this a small school with mostly high SES families? My kids' school is very diverse and has 4 or 5 classes per grade and I think it's hard to establish a "cool kids" group when there are that many kids from so many different backgrounds. I love that about our school.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 12:26
Subject: Re:How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
There's a heavy race/class component to this in our ES right now. Most of the kids don't seem that concerned yet or overly cliquish, but there is one group of girls that is playing with ranking/excluding others, defining themselves as a group and calling themselves "popular." I harbor no ill will-- they're just kids. But it's certainly notable that they are all of a certain class and virtually all of a certain race. I don't think this is even typical at our school, but it seems to have taken root in one year's cohort.
To answer the question about my school when I was that age, I think it was 1) preternatural social awareness (used for both good and ill), 2) genuine confidence, and 3) looks as a distant, but still significant, third. I remember there being 4 girls that were the solidly popular girls in the class (with 2-3 more on the periphery), and 3 of the 4 were quite pretty, but the ~Queen Bee just wasn't, really. Athletics didn't come into it at all, as I recall. There wasn't much correlation with stage of puberty, either.
As for the group at my kid's school, at least in her grade, I genuinely see no other connection, no other shared attributes or distinctions but race and class. I also don't know to what extent other kids actually consider them popular, though. I think their behavior/self-definition has had some influence, maybe slightly raised their social status on average, but the whole thing is probably ignored completely by half or more of the other kids.
To answer the question about my school when I was that age, I think it was 1) preternatural social awareness (used for both good and ill), 2) genuine confidence, and 3) looks as a distant, but still significant, third. I remember there being 4 girls that were the solidly popular girls in the class (with 2-3 more on the periphery), and 3 of the 4 were quite pretty, but the ~Queen Bee just wasn't, really. Athletics didn't come into it at all, as I recall. There wasn't much correlation with stage of puberty, either.
As for the group at my kid's school, at least in her grade, I genuinely see no other connection, no other shared attributes or distinctions but race and class. I also don't know to what extent other kids actually consider them popular, though. I think their behavior/self-definition has had some influence, maybe slightly raised their social status on average, but the whole thing is probably ignored completely by half or more of the other kids.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 12:06
Subject: Re:How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
I was very much NOT cool, and was surprised to have daughters who are. I will focus on my oldest, because that's when it surprised me (after her, I figured I just produce cool kids, like some people produce lefties). I learned she was cool in 1st grade when we were walking down the hallway in her school at the end of the day and a 5th grader said goodbye to her from down the hall. How did a 5th grader know her?! Who was that girl?! "That's my friend."
- not super sensitive. You got the piece of paper that's someone else's favorite color? DD will trade so you can have it, no problem and doesn't care that she got navy blue or dark brown (colors hard to color on).
- she's kind in meaningful ways . You don't have anywhere to sit because there's no room? She'll get everyone to smush over to make room for you. You were in a rush this morning and don't have lunch? She'll share hers.
- she's confident deep in her soul. Walking into a room of kids she doesn't know, doesn't phase her. She'd march right in and walk up to some kid and say "You're wearing my favorite color! You love purple too?" and in ten minutes you'd think they'd been friends for three years the way they're giggling together.
- she can defuse tense situations by using humor. she could stop bullying, smooth over embarrassing moments, etc.
- she has a couple of cool skills - she is very good at art and if someone was sad she'd sometimes draw them a picture. she's very good at imitating people and would do imitations of people's moms, a sub who was old and from the deep South, etc. people like people who can do tricks.
We were poor and sometimes her clothes looked poor. At one point her backpack was held together with duct tape. So it wasn't being rich or having a lot of fancy stuff. I think the younger girls, while also confident and having a lot of the same qualities listed above that the oldest has, also benefitted by being related to her. "Oh, you're R's little sister? She's cool, so you're cool too." They were popular by association.
- not super sensitive. You got the piece of paper that's someone else's favorite color? DD will trade so you can have it, no problem and doesn't care that she got navy blue or dark brown (colors hard to color on).
- she's kind in meaningful ways . You don't have anywhere to sit because there's no room? She'll get everyone to smush over to make room for you. You were in a rush this morning and don't have lunch? She'll share hers.
- she's confident deep in her soul. Walking into a room of kids she doesn't know, doesn't phase her. She'd march right in and walk up to some kid and say "You're wearing my favorite color! You love purple too?" and in ten minutes you'd think they'd been friends for three years the way they're giggling together.
- she can defuse tense situations by using humor. she could stop bullying, smooth over embarrassing moments, etc.
- she has a couple of cool skills - she is very good at art and if someone was sad she'd sometimes draw them a picture. she's very good at imitating people and would do imitations of people's moms, a sub who was old and from the deep South, etc. people like people who can do tricks.
We were poor and sometimes her clothes looked poor. At one point her backpack was held together with duct tape. So it wasn't being rich or having a lot of fancy stuff. I think the younger girls, while also confident and having a lot of the same qualities listed above that the oldest has, also benefitted by being related to her. "Oh, you're R's little sister? She's cool, so you're cool too." They were popular by association.
Anonymous
03/29/2022 12:06
Subject: How do "cool kids" become "cool"?
Teach your daughter to stand on her own two feet and to be comfortable in her own skin. Teach her how to not find her sense of self esteem by being a member of a particular set of "popular" people. Do not make her feel like her self worth is contingent on running with a certain pack, or a certain person. I have a HS senior DD, and I've seen what happens to the girls whose mothers push "being popular" to the extreme, and make their DD's self worth continent on it. Don't do it.