Anonymous wrote:I think, as the cost of those so-called top-tier colleges keeps increasing, More and more parents of really strong students are just not willing to pay these outrageous prices, or we are unwilling to pay them. People are unwilling to take on debt to pay 40, 50, 60, $70,000 a year. A lot of parents right here on DC urban mounts managed to save a full tuition for their kids, but in the rest of the world most of us have not. As a result we are steering our kids to more reasonably priced state colleges. This makes state schools more competitive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The current situation is that colleges have become less predictable in whom they accept, in part due to test-optional admissions. It's not so much that college admission is more selective across the board, although it has certainly become so at the top universities and colleges, but that students are forced to widen their search and apply to more schools to ensure admission at one of them. And tuition increases every year, faster than salaries can keep up.

And that's a very bad thing. It puts the burden on the student and their family to navigate an extremely complex, non-transparent, process. Colleges and universities profit from the murkier admissions criteria ("holistic" and "equitable" my foot) to cherry-pick the class that suits them that year, to sculpt their brand and image. Profit, in the form of reputation and money, is the end goal, at the expense of individual students.

No other wealthy nation does this to its young people.

No, but their way is worse. Only the top 10% on one test will get into college in some Asian countries. That's it. If you didn't feel well on test day or were tired or stressed, oh well. I'd much prefer our way where there are schools for every student. My kid is having a pretty low-stress high school experience because we are realistic. He will end up at a SLAC surrounded by students who didn't kill themselves trying to get into top 20 schools. The rankings I care about are which schools retain the highest number of students, 4 year graduation rate and happiest students.

Anonymous wrote:Selectivity ≠ quality

How many kids whose dream school is Michigan really will hit the academic (or social or whatever) ceiling at Kansas (admit rate >90%)? 1%? 5%? Surely not 10%. Same is true for Williams rejects at St. Lawrence (admit rate almost 50%) or Whitman (admit rate >50%). Or Vandy rejects at Miami of Ohio (admit rate >90%). Or Carleton rejects at Wooster (admit rate >60%). Etc., etc., etc.

Kids (and especially their parents!) just need to recognize that they can be admitted to a school that will fit them and offer a great education--and get over that it might not appear on the first page of some ridiculous "ranking" list.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The current situation is that colleges have become less predictable in whom they accept, in part due to test-optional admissions. It's not so much that college admission is more selective across the board, although it has certainly become so at the top universities and colleges, but that students are forced to widen their search and apply to more schools to ensure admission at one of them. And tuition increases every year, faster than salaries can keep up.

And that's a very bad thing. It puts the burden on the student and their family to navigate an extremely complex, non-transparent, process. Colleges and universities profit from the murkier admissions criteria ("holistic" and "equitable" my foot) to cherry-pick the class that suits them that year, to sculpt their brand and image. Profit, in the form of reputation and money, is the end goal, at the expense of individual students.

No other wealthy nation does this to its young people.

Disagree with this. There is an old article (maybe Economist) titled “the one shot society “ (about South Korea).

South Korea is quantitate though. High stress yes, but it's not subject to the hidden whims of AOs. I predict students within two years will be applying to 30 schools. My DC applied to 17 and it wasn't enough with all the random decision making.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The current situation is that colleges have become less predictable in whom they accept, in part due to test-optional admissions. It's not so much that college admission is more selective across the board, although it has certainly become so at the top universities and colleges, but that students are forced to widen their search and apply to more schools to ensure admission at one of them. And tuition increases every year, faster than salaries can keep up.

And that's a very bad thing. It puts the burden on the student and their family to navigate an extremely complex, non-transparent, process. Colleges and universities profit from the murkier admissions criteria ("holistic" and "equitable" my foot) to cherry-pick the class that suits them that year, to sculpt their brand and image. Profit, in the form of reputation and money, is the end goal, at the expense of individual students.

No other wealthy nation does this to its young people.

Disagree with this. There is an old article (maybe Economist) titled “the one shot society “ (about South Korea).

Anonymous wrote:I read who gets in and why too, and while very insightful, I’m not sure it gives a magic formula.

What I took away from WGIAW it was:

Be very smart and get an A and 5 on BC Calc junior year (especially if female as this illustrates high quant IQ.)
Take the other hardest courses at your school and get As
Apply ED and EA
Be full pay
Be recruited for a sport
Most importantly, admission officers are human and make many seemingly random decisions

Anyway, this “recipe” is not possible for most kids. For my kids, we are going to do a lot of rolling and EA schools and be happy with those schools. We are not getting attached to any one perfect school. I am encouraging my kid to apply to schools they fit their areas of interest but have admission rates above 50%. Maybe they will try for one harder to get into school for ED but that will be balanced with others that are more likely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The current situation is that colleges have become less predictable in whom they accept, in part due to test-optional admissions. It's not so much that college admission is more selective across the board, although it has certainly become so at the top universities and colleges, but that students are forced to widen their search and apply to more schools to ensure admission at one of them. And tuition increases every year, faster than salaries can keep up.

And that's a very bad thing. It puts the burden on the student and their family to navigate an extremely complex, non-transparent, process. Colleges and universities profit from the murkier admissions criteria ("holistic" and "equitable" my foot) to cherry-pick the class that suits them that year, to sculpt their brand and image. Profit, in the form of reputation and money, is the end goal, at the expense of individual students.

No other wealthy nation does this to its young people.

This is an odd thing to say. Very few state schools act like this toward their instate students. What you describe is mostly the practice of private schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Let your kid be themselves— but the best version of themselves. If you have an all arounder who can get 4s and 5s across all 5 cores in AP— great. But that’s not the only path. If your kid is pointy, use it to set them apart.

My kid got into a Tier 1 VA school this year with 2 AP foreign languages, a foreign language summer intensive in a third language and all of the English, History, Social Science APs offered except psych. 11 APs. But — 3 years of honors science, no senior science, no science APs. And standard math starting in A2, standard Calc, not AP. She loved her classes and had great grades. And was applying for a humanities major. She also did some unusual ECs in her major, and applied to continue with one EC . And because she enjoys it, her primary EC was a highly technical STEM— which every school discussed in an interview because it stood out. Plus, she had strong ACTs in science and math. So, she demonstrated she could do STEM, then specialized elsewhere.

Most kids can’t win the 14 APs across 5 core plus Eagle Scout and athlete race. So have your kid run their race.

2. Remember your kid may get 5 minutes of an AO’s attention. So take the time to package them— for their major and the school. Reference a specific program, specific research, a specific observation for why this school. Put the common App together so your kid’s high school tells a story, where classes plus ECs plus anything else all gel. Make it easy for the AO to read the app and quickly see why your kid wants their school, what they will contribute, and that they have the academic chops.

3. For instate VA, take ED if it’s an option. It can definately push middle of the pack kids into accept. We talked to DD and decided she would ED spring of junior year. So, her deadline was always October. So, she went through the whole research process— just sooner than most kids.

4. Don’t waste ED on a 1% chance. If you are in a position to ED, submit to a high match/ low reach and not Brown. Which was my DD’s original first choice. Then we checked Naviance. A sea of 4.5/1580 rejections (and she was not a 4.5) and one 3.7/1200 acceptance (which would be a seriously hooked kid)— in the last ten years. Brown? No realistic. Use ED to reach some. To turn a school that would be a WL in RD into an acceptance. But, be realistic.

Nice post!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read who gets in and why too, and while very insightful, I’m not sure it gives a magic formula.

What I took away from WGIAW it was:

Be very smart and get an A and 5 on BC Calc junior year (especially if female as this illustrates high quant IQ.)
Take the other hardest courses at your school and get As
Apply ED and EA
Be full pay
Be recruited for a sport
Most importantly, admission officers are human and make many seemingly random decisions

Anyway, this “recipe” is not possible for most kids. For my kids, we are going to do a lot of rolling and EA schools and be happy with those schools. We are not getting attached to any one perfect school. I am encouraging my kid to apply to schools they fit their areas of interest but have admission rates above 50%. Maybe they will try for one harder to get into school for ED but that will be balanced with others that are more likely.

PP. I don’t think the book gives a formula. I kind of gleaned one from the book and from anecdotes of friends and neighbors. It worked for us. Not saying it would work for others. But maybe it’s helpful for some who like to think in a “what helps” way. Lots of things don’t help. Some things do. Play those cards right and you improve your odds. That’s all I meant.

PP Can you tell us what you gleaned from it? What matters and what does not?

PP here. Yes! It’s grades, rigor, SAT/ACT, ECs, and applications. I also want to make clear that it isn’t at all about getting into a Top 20 college. It’s about aiming for what you think is best for your DC. You get the formula, maximize the variables in it, and that improves your odds for colleges that you’re targeting. It’s so simple people will think it’s stupid. But we just took each variable in turn during junior year and used our limited time and money on what mattered most, each of those variables. Like we said, we can’t control everything, but for the next 2 montres, we’re focusing on maximizing SAT score. Check. Next.

What I got out of the book was partly how many totally qualified students they see, and how they have to prune hard to get to a reasonably sized class. It helped me see that my kid's experience of being put on many waitlists was actually a sign of being qualified but just not having some (likely unchangeable) attributes desired by the school for that particular class.

Also how important it is to tell a coherent story about the student. Want to major in subject X but have showed no interest in it before (through classes, extracurriculars, etc.)? Not a great look. Say you couldn't do extracurriculars because of family obligations but then don't give enough detail about the time commitment? You haven't proven your case and it's hard to tell if you're an involved older sibling or just a slacker.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Let your kid be themselves— but the best version of themselves. If you have an all arounder who can get 4s and 5s across all 5 cores in AP— great. But that’s not the only path. If your kid is pointy, use it to set them apart.

My kid got into a Tier 1 VA school this year with 2 AP foreign languages, a foreign language summer intensive in a third language and all of the English, History, Social Science APs offered except psych. 11 APs. But — 3 years of honors science, no senior science, no science APs. And standard math starting in A2, standard Calc, not AP. She loved her classes and had great grades. And was applying for a humanities major. She also did some unusual ECs in her major, and applied to continue with one EC . And because she enjoys it, her primary EC was a highly technical STEM— which every school discussed in an interview because it stood out. Plus, she had strong ACTs in science and math. So, she demonstrated she could do STEM, then specialized elsewhere.

Most kids can’t win the 14 APs across 5 core plus Eagle Scout and athlete race. So have your kid run their race.

2. Remember your kid may get 5 minutes of an AO’s attention. So take the time to package them— for their major and the school. Reference a specific program, specific research, a specific observation for why this school. Put the common App together so your kid’s high school tells a story, where classes plus ECs plus anything else all gel. Make it easy for the AO to read the app and quickly see why your kid wants their school, what they will contribute, and that they have the academic chops.

3. For instate VA, take ED if it’s an option. It can definately push middle of the pack kids into accept. We talked to DD and decided she would ED spring of junior year. So, her deadline was always October. So, she went through the whole research process— just sooner than most kids.

4. Don’t waste ED on a 1% chance. If you are in a position to ED, submit to a high match/ low reach and not Brown. Which was my DD’s original first choice. Then we checked Naviance. A sea of 4.5/1580 rejections (and she was not a 4.5) and one 3.7/1200 acceptance (which would be a seriously hooked kid)— in the last ten years. Brown? No realistic. Use ED to reach some. To turn a school that would be a WL in RD into an acceptance. But, be realistic.

Nice post!

Anonymous wrote:1. Let your kid be themselves— but the best version of themselves. If you have an all arounder who can get 4s and 5s across all 5 cores in AP— great. But that’s not the only path. If your kid is pointy, use it to set them apart.

My kid got into a Tier 1 VA school this year with 2 AP foreign languages, a foreign language summer intensive in a third language and all of the English, History, Social Science APs offered except psych. 11 APs. But — 3 years of honors science, no senior science, no science APs. And standard math starting in A2, standard Calc, not AP. She loved her classes and had great grades. And was applying for a humanities major. She also did some unusual ECs in her major, and applied to continue with one EC . And because she enjoys it, her primary EC was a highly technical STEM— which every school discussed in an interview because it stood out. Plus, she had strong ACTs in science and math. So, she demonstrated she could do STEM, then specialized elsewhere.

Most kids can’t win the 14 APs across 5 core plus Eagle Scout and athlete race. So have your kid run their race.

2. Remember your kid may get 5 minutes of an AO’s attention. So take the time to package them— for their major and the school. Reference a specific program, specific research, a specific observation for why this school. Put the common App together so your kid’s high school tells a story, where classes plus ECs plus anything else all gel. Make it easy for the AO to read the app and quickly see why your kid wants their school, what they will contribute, and that they have the academic chops.

3. For instate VA, take ED if it’s an option. It can definately push middle of the pack kids into accept. We talked to DD and decided she would ED spring of junior year. So, her deadline was always October. So, she went through the whole research process— just sooner than most kids.

4. Don’t waste ED on a 1% chance. If you are in a position to ED, submit to a high match/ low reach and not Brown. Which was my DD’s original first choice. Then we checked Naviance. A sea of 4.5/1580 rejections (and she was not a 4.5) and one 3.7/1200 acceptance (which would be a seriously hooked kid)— in the last ten years. Brown? No realistic. Use ED to reach some. To turn a school that would be a WL in RD into an acceptance. But, be realistic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read who gets in and why too, and while very insightful, I’m not sure it gives a magic formula.

What I took away from WGIAW it was:

Be very smart and get an A and 5 on BC Calc junior year (especially if female as this illustrates high quant IQ.)
Take the other hardest courses at your school and get As
Apply ED and EA
Be full pay
Be recruited for a sport
Most importantly, admission officers are human and make many seemingly random decisions

Anyway, this “recipe” is not possible for most kids. For my kids, we are going to do a lot of rolling and EA schools and be happy with those schools. We are not getting attached to any one perfect school. I am encouraging my kid to apply to schools they fit their areas of interest but have admission rates above 50%. Maybe they will try for one harder to get into school for ED but that will be balanced with others that are more likely.

PP. I don’t think the book gives a formula. I kind of gleaned one from the book and from anecdotes of friends and neighbors. It worked for us. Not saying it would work for others. But maybe it’s helpful for some who like to think in a “what helps” way. Lots of things don’t help. Some things do. Play those cards right and you improve your odds. That’s all I meant.

PP Can you tell us what you gleaned from it? What matters and what does not?

PP here. Yes! It’s grades, rigor, SAT/ACT, ECs, and applications. I also want to make clear that it isn’t at all about getting into a Top 20 college. It’s about aiming for what you think is best for your DC. You get the formula, maximize the variables in it, and that improves your odds for colleges that you’re targeting. It’s so simple people will think it’s stupid. But we just took each variable in turn during junior year and used our limited time and money on what mattered most, each of those variables. Like we said, we can’t control everything, but for the next 2 montres, we’re focusing on maximizing SAT score. Check. Next.

What I got out of the book was partly how many totally qualified students they see, and how they have to prune hard to get to a reasonably sized class. It helped me see that my kid's experience of being put on many waitlists was actually a sign of being qualified but just not having some (likely unchangeable) attributes desired by the school for that particular class.

Also how important it is to tell a coherent story about the student. Want to major in subject X but have showed no interest in it before (through classes, extracurriculars, etc.)? Not a great look. Say you couldn't do extracurriculars because of family obligations but then don't give enough detail about the time commitment? You haven't proven your case and it's hard to tell if you're an involved older sibling or just a slacker.