Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Does it matter if the child plays for the HS or if they are on a club team not affiliated with the HS?

you kinda want kids playing for the schools

I wish the US would adopt a European approach to scholastic sports. Schools should have nada to do with it, it just detracts from their missions. Leave the sports to clubs.

What is the European approach? I agree it needs to change.

What I just described. The schools don’t sponsor athletics. Kids can, should and do play sports, but all the leagues are run independently of schools.

The problem with this is its the selective colleges that go after athletes too. The privates are just trying to recruit the kids who can get accepted into them. Have to change sports at the college level and that ain't happening.

For good reason.
Study: College Athletes Have Better Academic, Life Outcomes

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/06/24/gallup-study-shows-positive-life-outcomes-college-athletes

I’m not saying don’t play sports. On the contrary, actually. It just shouldn’t be the schools sponsoring the teams. It’s the athletic kids and their parents who favor HS and colleges continuing to sponsor sports because it gives them a hook.

Do you understand how ingrained Friday night lights is in American culture? Didn't you ever pack a gym to cheer for your high school basketball team?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it matter if the child plays for the HS or if they are on a club team not affiliated with the HS?

you kinda want kids playing for the schools

I wish the US would adopt a European approach to scholastic sports. Schools should have nada to do with it, it just detracts from their missions. Leave the sports to clubs.

What is the European approach? I agree it needs to change.

What I just described. The schools don’t sponsor athletics. Kids can, should and do play sports, but all the leagues are run independently of schools.

The problem with this is its the selective colleges that go after athletes too. The privates are just trying to recruit the kids who can get accepted into them. Have to change sports at the college level and that ain't happening.

For good reason.
Study: College Athletes Have Better Academic, Life Outcomes

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/06/24/gallup-study-shows-positive-life-outcomes-college-athletes

This is confusing causality.

Participation in demanding travel sports, often required from a young age correlates to as wealthy supportive parents (often a SAHM to shuffle kids to all those early practices and many weekend games) to encourage sports; as well being successful at sports often includes greater height. Fit people are perceived as more attractive so advantages in labor and dating market.

If the controlled for those parameters, (FOB wealth, height, weight) I bet the sports advantage dwindles precipitously.

I disagree OP. I think you are using an old college trope + misplacing it on HS + lower. Often, the best athletes aren't known until they are in h.s. (depending on the sport, of course).

What academic records? Kids nowadays don’t even take real tests until upper school and are told the ERBs don’t matter since their schools covers what it wants not the ERB standards or topics. Report cards merely say what the class as a whole did on a couple units, and some individual progress or national standards stuff, and then they mainly hand out Bs once those letter grades are finally introduced. You have to really be buttering up a teacher that his or her subject is your calling and putting in the time with work above and beyond to get an A-. They just don’t give a lot of those out no matter what the work product.

My kid is at a progressive school that touted no homework / homework is bad since K. He’d flip out at a test, let alone a timed test! This is not serving him well.

Anonymous wrote:

Team sport kids also must communicate real time on a field. Their situational awareness is also superior, especially on a fast ball sport like basketball. Can’t see the play, get in position, block, get a rebound, catch a ball? Go do something slow. No problem.

THIS plus time management plus commitment (time, energy, effort) plus leadership skills plus dedication plus drive to achieve and win plus ability to learn on the fly...

Parents complaining about athletes getting preference just don't get it. Our DS, year-round AAU/travel basketball player for several years and soccer player, dedicates a lot of time to his sport practicing with his team at least two evenings per week for 2 hours at a time, skills training, travel for tournaments, and practicing on his own on off days. Twice a week after school we drive 45+ minutes in traffic each way to bring him to a 2-hour practice, then back home late to clean up, eat full dinner, finish homework, study, etc. which makes for a very long day. While he is training, his friends are probably spending more time on homework and playing video games. DS is smart but if he had more time to study every day, he would likely get excellent grades, but he does well and learns so the trade-off is worth it.

Same goes for kids who dedicate a lot of time to other intense activities like music, dance, theater. School admissions officers get it.

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Anonymous wrote:This isn’t true at either single sex school my kids attend. At the 9th grade level, you get a handful of kids there for athletic ability (maybe 4 at all girls, less than 10 at all boys ) and the rest of the new admits are solely there for their academic records.

The problem with this statement is that it implies academics and athletics are mutually exclusive. For the most part, the athletes are also strong academic applicants and their sport is what sets them apart from the next kid that only has academics going for them.

The OP recognizes that good academics and good athletics are not mutually exclusive. The question is, where academics are equal, why are athletics more highly valued than other ECs. Answer: money

I wasn’t talking about the OP. I was referring to PP that said, “This isn’t true at either single sex school my kids attend. At the 9th grade level, you get a handful of kids there for athletic ability (maybe 4 at all girls, less than 10 at all boys ) and the rest of the new admits are solely there for their academic records.

This implies that the athletes are only there for athletics and not for academics. I am the PP that has stated my kid is a 4.0 student that is also a very strong athlete.

I am the prior poster. My kids are at very academically rigorous schools and yes, the recruited athletes have to meet standards. But most of the kids coming in at 9 th grade are not particularly athletic. Freshman admits tend to be nerdier than the kids who are lifers.

Excuses there’s no BS like in every other achievement nowadays.

You can’t really turn around -absent doping or ref bribes- and say You didnt win that game! You didnt score that point or make that pass!

It’s counter the new american sub-culture of playing the victim, never competing, and blaming others for your lack of personal agency.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it matter if the child plays for the HS or if they are on a club team not affiliated with the HS?

you kinda want kids playing for the schools

I wish the US would adopt a European approach to scholastic sports. Schools should have nada to do with it, it just detracts from their missions. Leave the sports to clubs.

What is the European approach? I agree it needs to change.

What I just described. The schools don’t sponsor athletics. Kids can, should and do play sports, but all the leagues are run independently of schools.

The problem with this is its the selective colleges that go after athletes too. The privates are just trying to recruit the kids who can get accepted into them. Have to change sports at the college level and that ain't happening.

For good reason.
Study: College Athletes Have Better Academic, Life Outcomes

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/06/24/gallup-study-shows-positive-life-outcomes-college-athletes

I’m not saying don’t play sports. On the contrary, actually. It just shouldn’t be the schools sponsoring the teams. It’s the athletic kids and their parents who favor HS and colleges continuing to sponsor sports because it gives them a hook.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn’t true at either single sex school my kids attend. At the 9th grade level, you get a handful of kids there for athletic ability (maybe 4 at all girls, less than 10 at all boys ) and the rest of the new admits are solely there for their academic records.

The problem with this statement is that it implies academics and athletics are mutually exclusive. For the most part, the athletes are also strong academic applicants and their sport is what sets them apart from the next kid that only has academics going for them.

The OP recognizes that good academics and good athletics are not mutually exclusive. The question is, where academics are equal, why are athletics more highly valued than other ECs. Answer: money

Team sport kids also must communicate real time on a field. Their situational awareness is also superior, especially on a fast ball sport like basketball. Can’t see the play, get in position, block, get a rebound, catch a ball? Go do something slow. No problem.

Yes Op, many can see this and the trend towards some U.S. Colleges no longer requiring standardized tests, high schools dropping AP scope classes as well as rank and grades all in favor of some subjective teacher recommendations creates a real lack of info and merits.

Then here comes the ultimate test: a sport. Who cares if the kid learned from older kids on a dirt field many days after school and then got scooped up or was diligently driven to fencing class and competitions for years. They out in the time, learned to a teammmate,, are coachable (opposite of some prima donna self righteous kids), have good time Mgmt, and can prioritize. On top of their natural and practiced talents and abilities in and off the field or classroom.

Of course up schools, colleges asd employers want that kind of person. And they don’t have to sift through generic or exaggerated letters to do so.

Can’t tell you how many bad cut and paste jobs mediocre students get as recommendations. Sigh.

Anonymous wrote:The DMV privates, specifically talking about high-school level the most competitive 8-10* in our area, will always take the strong athlete over any other “extra talent” once a certain academic threshold is met. It’s just like college. These days the closest thing to a guarantee to getting in to a top private is to be a great athlete at many sports or a top player in one sport. It’s amazing how much athletic talent influences admissions these days. Other talents like music, art, acting, robotics, coding, etc… just don’t seem to matter much at all in helping with admissions. Why is this the case? Is it a rarer talent? Is it easier to use to boost a school’s profile? Are we just an athlete-obsessed culture?

* Sidwell, STA, Potomac, GDS, NCS, Holton, Maret, Landon, independent Catholic HS (GP, SR, Visi, Gonzaga).

OP, I think you are over stating it. Knowing many current DC Private HS students and recent Grads as I do, I'd share that these student athletes are more multi-faceted than you give them credit for.

In other words one kid is a Presidential scholar nominee AND editor of the school year book AND All Met and Nationally ranked in his sport AND captain of nationally ranked robotics team

and other kids are Valedictorian and All Met and Presidential scholar Finalist

These schools are small and the applicant pool is very large and pulls from 3 nearby states Its like a mini college admissions round at an Ivy as to who gets in

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is rather have a well rounded student that can do well in the classroom as well as show they sacrifice a lot of their time and bodies for their sport. Shows they are well-rounded and can deal with adversity. Many superior athletes spend 40+ hours a week on their sport. If they are also maintaining academic quality, that kid is going to be superior to a regular student any day of the week. Yes, even a regular student that can paint well. Those are not the same.

Superior because they play a sport? Are there other ways a student can excel outside the classroom? Deal with adversity? Be a leader? Why are athletes so very superior?

BTW, “a regular student who can paint well”? Really?

It’s our current culture to worship athletes.

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2014/aug/04/sport-at-university-do-athletes-make-better-students

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gallup-ncaa-student-athletes-thrive-in-life-after-graduation-301082384.html

Anonymous wrote:Is rather have a well rounded student that can do well in the classroom as well as show they sacrifice a lot of their time and bodies for their sport. Shows they are well-rounded and can deal with adversity. Many superior athletes spend 40+ hours a week on their sport. If they are also maintaining academic quality, that kid is going to be superior to a regular student any day of the week. Yes, even a regular student that can paint well. Those are not the same.

Superior because they play a sport? Are there other ways a student can excel outside the classroom? Deal with adversity? Be a leader? Why are athletes so very superior?

BTW, “a regular student who can paint well”? Really?

It’s our current culture to worship athletes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it matter if the child plays for the HS or if they are on a club team not affiliated with the HS?

you kinda want kids playing for the schools

I wish the US would adopt a European approach to scholastic sports. Schools should have nada to do with it, it just detracts from their missions. Leave the sports to clubs.

What is the European approach? I agree it needs to change.

What I just described. The schools don’t sponsor athletics. Kids can, should and do play sports, but all the leagues are run independently of schools.

The problem with this is its the selective colleges that go after athletes too. The privates are just trying to recruit the kids who can get accepted into them. Have to change sports at the college level and that ain't happening.

For good reason.
Study: College Athletes Have Better Academic, Life Outcomes

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/06/24/gallup-study-shows-positive-life-outcomes-college-athletes

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it matter if the child plays for the HS or if they are on a club team not affiliated with the HS?

you kinda want kids playing for the schools

I wish the US would adopt a European approach to scholastic sports. Schools should have nada to do with it, it just detracts from their missions. Leave the sports to clubs.

What is the European approach? I agree it needs to change.

What I just described. The schools don’t sponsor athletics. Kids can, should and do play sports, but all the leagues are run independently of schools.

The problem with this is its the selective colleges that go after athletes too. The privates are just trying to recruit the kids who can get accepted into them. Have to change sports at the college level and that ain't happening.