Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 16:45     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Please. Many of the faculty that the colleges hire now are non tenure track already. The over supply of PhD's is the cause of this. Tenure track positions are getting fewer and fewer in academia.


Great! Then you certainly agree that the free market is efficiently handling this and there is no need for governmental intervention! Perfect!


Anonymous wrote:Plus, for years academia has ignored the virtual congregation of the woke cabal in their ranks who thumb the noses at the outside world and continue to indoctrinate students with nonsensical woke filth, under the protection of tenure. Tenure is an anachronism. Get rid of it. No other industry has it and innovation and excellence happens everywhere even without it.


Ahh, spoke too soon. There you go with your hypocrisy.


Please don't expose your ignorance. These Universities are State universities. They are funded by the immense oil deposits under Texas lands that fatten their endowments. The proposal is not to enforce these decisions on Rice university and other private universities. UT is supposed to serve the needs of Texas, not the sensibilities of coastal elites. It's very clear whata majority of Texas likes, even if liberals detest it. It's not your money.


The words you typed have nothing to do with the post You are responding to
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 16:45     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I believe this will happen in more states. Great! Tenure protects ineffective and lazy professors.


Do you know how hard it is to a) get a tenure track job? b) earn tenure? Once you've completed a PhD (avg. 6 years) post-doc (2 years) gotten a tenure track position (maybe 1 -2 years visiting prof before you get it) you have to be an excellent teacher and a producer of research that is valued in the field and are judged at the 6 year point whether you get tenure. So basically, tenure comes in after 16 years of committing to the field. They are not lazy people.


And in years 17 - 35, once tenure is secured, they spend the rest of their career avoiding the classroom, resting on their laurels, trying to get away with teaching one class a week. They aren’t lazy during the pursuit and acquisition of tenure. They are lazy after.


This is a stereotype and it is far and away not the norm. I've been in or adjacent to academia nearly my entire life and there are just as many crappy VAP or pre-tenure professors as there are post-tenure professors.

The issue isn't post-tenure professors, it's the same issue as in *any* field -- professors who are, like, 80 years old and refuse to retire. Hardly unique to academia.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 16:39     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I believe this will happen in more states. Great! Tenure protects ineffective and lazy professors.


Do you know how hard it is to a) get a tenure track job? b) earn tenure? Once you've completed a PhD (avg. 6 years) post-doc (2 years) gotten a tenure track position (maybe 1 -2 years visiting prof before you get it) you have to be an excellent teacher and a producer of research that is valued in the field and are judged at the 6 year point whether you get tenure. So basically, tenure comes in after 16 years of committing to the field. They are not lazy people.


And in years 17 - 35, once tenure is secured, they spend the rest of their career avoiding the classroom, resting on their laurels, trying to get away with teaching one class a week. They aren’t lazy during the pursuit and acquisition of tenure. They are lazy after.



Tenure is a problem. No other field has something like it. Even partners in law firms are shown the door when they can't bring in new clients.


Partners are paid 10 times more than a law professor. In general people who choose the academic route take a huge pay cut. If you eliminate tenure you’ll have to pay double, triple for same level of professors. Let alone tenure provides the last bastion for free speech and academic freedom.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 16:27     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I believe this will happen in more states. Great! Tenure protects ineffective and lazy professors.


Do you know how hard it is to a) get a tenure track job? b) earn tenure? Once you've completed a PhD (avg. 6 years) post-doc (2 years) gotten a tenure track position (maybe 1 -2 years visiting prof before you get it) you have to be an excellent teacher and a producer of research that is valued in the field and are judged at the 6 year point whether you get tenure. So basically, tenure comes in after 16 years of committing to the field. They are not lazy people.


And in years 17 - 35, once tenure is secured, they spend the rest of their career avoiding the classroom, resting on their laurels, trying to get away with teaching one class a week. They aren’t lazy during the pursuit and acquisition of tenure. They are lazy after.



Tenure is a problem. No other field has something like it. Even partners in law firms are shown the door when they can't bring in new clients.


Tenure is about increasing academic freedom and productivity as well as encouraging the foremost academic minds to be available for 5, 10, 15, 20 years for each new generation of students.

Without tenure you lose your best-and-brightest academics to the next highest paying institution, company, or government agency. Brain drain is exactly what many fields (outside of education) in Europe are experiencing as their brightest minds come to the U.S. for opportunities. Similarly companies have a problem keeping competitive talent.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 16:19     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I believe this will happen in more states. Great! Tenure protects ineffective and lazy professors.


Do you know how hard it is to a) get a tenure track job? b) earn tenure? Once you've completed a PhD (avg. 6 years) post-doc (2 years) gotten a tenure track position (maybe 1 -2 years visiting prof before you get it) you have to be an excellent teacher and a producer of research that is valued in the field and are judged at the 6 year point whether you get tenure. So basically, tenure comes in after 16 years of committing to the field. They are not lazy people.


And in years 17 - 35, once tenure is secured, they spend the rest of their career avoiding the classroom, resting on their laurels, trying to get away with teaching one class a week. They aren’t lazy during the pursuit and acquisition of tenure. They are lazy after.



Tenure is a problem. No other field has something like it. Even partners in law firms are shown the door when they can't bring in new clients.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 15:17     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Please. Many of the faculty that the colleges hire now are non tenure track already. The over supply of PhD's is the cause of this. Tenure track positions are getting fewer and fewer in academia.


Great! Then you certainly agree that the free market is efficiently handling this and there is no need for governmental intervention! Perfect!


Anonymous wrote:Plus, for years academia has ignored the virtual congregation of the woke cabal in their ranks who thumb the noses at the outside world and continue to indoctrinate students with nonsensical woke filth, under the protection of tenure. Tenure is an anachronism. Get rid of it. No other industry has it and innovation and excellence happens everywhere even without it.


Ahh, spoke too soon. There you go with your hypocrisy.


Please don't expose your ignorance. These Universities are State universities. They are funded by the immense oil deposits under Texas lands that fatten their endowments. The proposal is not to enforce these decisions on Rice university and other private universities. UT is supposed to serve the needs of Texas, not the sensibilities of coastal elites. It's very clear whata majority of Texas likes, even if liberals detest it. It's not your money.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 13:11     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Another state whose leadership aims to destroy public education in their state.



What will happen if this passes:
Complete inability for Texas to recruit new science professors who are able to compete in the market of ideas.
Those smart faculty will head to other states - or other countries. (Britain, China would love to have them.)

If this happens I wouldn't send my kids to Texas universities - because Texas universities won't get the best faculty.

We have a modern global talent economy, and if a state education system is anti-intellectual, why would I want my kids to go to school there?



I'm not a Republican and have voted for them zero times but this is one proposal I can stand behind. I can understand tenure when the supply of teachers is low. I keep hearing that it's the oppisite. Too many PhDs looking for too few jobs. Kill tenure and hire the best. If old geezer wants to leave because his tenure is gone, he's welcome. Don't think research funding will be impacted by this.


Sure, a university full of newly minted PhDs who have zero experience will be a great. /s
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 12:58     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
We both left academe and tenure; it was the best career move and most lucrative choice we made.

Being yelled at by administrators to pass students who don't bother to study or do the work is not as fun as it sounds.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 12:13     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Undermining education is a core component of the new GOP.

They want the country to be fat and dumb.


Also, college towns are notoriously liberal. From Houston to Austin.


Austin has the highest anti-vaxxer rate in the state and in the country. 'Liberal' in Texas doesn't mean much when over 50% of your school children in places like Austin don't take vaccines.

Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:10     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:Undermining education is a core component of the new GOP.

They want the country to be fat and dumb.


Also, college towns are notoriously liberal. From Houston to Austin.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 09:09     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:Please. Many of the faculty that the colleges hire now are non tenure track already. The over supply of PhD's is the cause of this. Tenure track positions are getting fewer and fewer in academia.


Great! Then you certainly agree that the free market is efficiently handling this and there is no need for governmental intervention! Perfect!


Anonymous wrote:Plus, for years academia has ignored the virtual congregation of the woke cabal in their ranks who thumb the noses at the outside world and continue to indoctrinate students with nonsensical woke filth, under the protection of tenure. Tenure is an anachronism. Get rid of it. No other industry has it and innovation and excellence happens everywhere even without it.


Ahh, spoke too soon. There you go with your hypocrisy.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 07:06     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I believe this will happen in more states. Great! Tenure protects ineffective and lazy professors.


Do you know how hard it is to a) get a tenure track job? b) earn tenure? Once you've completed a PhD (avg. 6 years) post-doc (2 years) gotten a tenure track position (maybe 1 -2 years visiting prof before you get it) you have to be an excellent teacher and a producer of research that is valued in the field and are judged at the 6 year point whether you get tenure. So basically, tenure comes in after 16 years of committing to the field. They are not lazy people.


And in years 17 - 35, once tenure is secured, they spend the rest of their career avoiding the classroom, resting on their laurels, trying to get away with teaching one class a week. They aren’t lazy during the pursuit and acquisition of tenure. They are lazy after.


Now this I don't actually believe - most do work hard to uphold the responsibilities of their job. However, a minority do slack off, harass/sleep with students, lie and cheat, screw with the administration and issue threats, all the while claiming tenure protects them and they're the victims. Example = Florian Jagaer at University of Rochester, who will never be fired even though he sexually harassed dozens of students and the school had to pay out $10m to settle a federal lawsuit on his behalf. That's why tenure is broken.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 07:02     Subject: Re:Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Some professors are lazy A holes. This might help get rid of them. Now we need term imits for congress and the Supreme Court.


Only the top professors get tenure. It is very difficult. You don’t know what you are talking about.


Dude - I've seen plenty of half-assed, stupid, rich entitled white males with garbage research and spurious publishing get tenure - you're lying or fully ignorant if you think it's different than any other profession.


Its pretty tough to be a lazy asshole when your department is being gutted and you now have 200 majors in your department, 4 tenured professors, an army of adjuncts and no secretaries. We all have huge advising loads, letters of recommendation to write, committees and service responsibilities out the wazoo, new course preps, independent studies, students requiring various avcommodations, grant writing, research, new technologies to keep up with, etc. The days of professors sitting around drinking coffee ended like twenty years ago. Those politicians are so out of touch!


Incompetent people still get tenure regardless of the load/volunteer work/research/publishing - that's another subject altogether. It favors white males and those that are preferred by other white males in academia. The data/evidence is there. You painting it with a broad brush of "oh it's hard" shows you don't know what you're talking about.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2022 07:01     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Please. Many of the faculty that the colleges hire now are non tenure track already. The over supply of PhD's is the cause of this. Tenure track positions are getting fewer and fewer in academia.

Plus, for years academia has ignored the virtual congregation of the woke cabal in their ranks who thumb the noses at the outside world and continue to indoctrinate students with nonsensical woke filth, under the protection of tenure. Tenure is an anachronism. Get rid of it. No other industry has it and innovation and excellence happens everywhere even without it.
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2022 23:01     Subject: Texas proposal to eliminate tenure at universities: will destroy research in Texas.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I believe this will happen in more states. Great! Tenure protects ineffective and lazy professors.


Do you know how hard it is to a) get a tenure track job? b) earn tenure? Once you've completed a PhD (avg. 6 years) post-doc (2 years) gotten a tenure track position (maybe 1 -2 years visiting prof before you get it) you have to be an excellent teacher and a producer of research that is valued in the field and are judged at the 6 year point whether you get tenure. So basically, tenure comes in after 16 years of committing to the field. They are not lazy people.


And in years 17 - 35, once tenure is secured, they spend the rest of their career avoiding the classroom, resting on their laurels, trying to get away with teaching one class a week. They aren’t lazy during the pursuit and acquisition of tenure. They are lazy after.