Anonymous wrote:OP how do you both work full time with split schedules AND watch the baby?

Also, who watches your kids in the summer? After school?

DH starts work at 5am. He ends at 2:30. I start late morning. End around 5 or 6. That leaves a short time when we are both working, when the baby usually naps.
Summer camp.
Also, we have a babysitter help do drop offs most morning for the two older kids

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you thought about what would happen if one of you could not work from home?

I agree with others….renting is throwing money away.

Your older children will not have access to hand me downs like little ones do.

Umm.. How can you predict that? Will my cousin's kids automatically stop growing? Will they stop over-buying nice quality clothes? Will they stop offering to pass them on to us? ....no.

I think OP is wise. If you want to have 4 kids, it is smart to do it young, to lower the risk.

For the people who say she is throwing money away in rent—no, she receives something in exchange, which is housing.

Plus—and I think this is the very clever part of her strategy—by living in DC she has a short commute, making it possible to cover childcare just the parents, and living in DC, they get paid maternity leave and free pre-k starting at 3. And by staying in their jobs, they earn their salary and pension and good health insurance, and the forgiven 100k in student loans is a great bonus.

How much is that all worth? 4 kids times 4 years of full time daycare in DC, you’re looking at 400k, easily. Add in the forgiven loans, and they save 500k with their plan and they have four adorable kids.

OP how do you both work full time with split schedules AND watch the baby?

Also, who watches your kids in the summer? After school?

OP, have you thought about what would happen if one of you could not work from home?

I agree with others….renting is throwing money away.

Your older children will not have access to hand me downs like little ones do.

I mean you have a poverty mentality because you don’t see how dumb it is to plan to flush 500K in rent away down the toilet every month for over a decade. I mean poverty mentality because you fail to see how purchasing a home now means you could spend the same 3000 per month on a mortgage on a 700K house that will be worth over 1mm in 15 years and you’ll have 15 years left to pay it off and then you own it instead of owning nothing in 15 years and having wasted half a million dollars. You’re trying to sound breezy and international but you just sound immature and unrealistic about what it takes to achieve long term financial security. Many of us on here grew up with less and want to give our kids more. Your 3-4 kids will not be ok with moving in a decade, they won’t want to wear used clothes, and they won’t be pleased about taking out over 100K in student loans that will be an albatross for their young adult lives because you didn’t plan for their futures. But sure, keep having kids and let the hormones keep dictating your life choices. At a minimum if you’re so fiscally responsible you should have college savings plans for your kids.

It’s easy to have this mindset of wanting a lot of kids and being able to care for a lot of kids when your kids are so little and adorable and your postpartum hormones are speaking to you and your kids are fine w going along w whatever works for you for the most part bc they’re too little to have or voice their opinions or interests.

I have kids in elementary and preschool and let me tell you it gets harder as kids get older. Bigger kids, bigger problems, as they say. They have opinions, they have interests, they have lives outside the home. You’ll likely wind up spending a lot of time taking them all over for activities/extra curriculars, they will have friends and need help navigating social lives, they’ll have homework, they’ll have issues at school they need help with, they probably won’t always be happy to share a room and hang out w their siblings. They become their own people. Right now, their whole world is focused on you: their parents, their family unit. So it’s easier for you to manage them. It won’t always be that way. They’ll grow up and want different things and not be content to play at home w their siblings and parents all the time.

Life gets a lot harder as a parent once your kids get older and I know it’ll only continue getting harder in many ways once they’re pre-teens and teens.

Also, a PP is right that kids hate moving. Believe me. We moved last summer to a bigger house in a great neighborhood we love but it’s been a TOUGH adjustment for our kids. So renting and possibly moving around often doesn’t sound great for kids. Again, it’s probably fine when they’re really little and have a short memory and a life centered only on their family unit but it gets harder as they’re in school, have friends, know the neighbors, care about where they live.

All that said, I think you should do what you feel is best. Kids are wonderful and in an ideal world I’d have 4-5 of them too. But it’s not very practical in the real world.

Okay not sure who this PP is ^^
Do you have a house on the market or something? You want me to buy it?

- Yes we live in NW DC. No we do not plan to buy here. We have many options of different locations (we are not from here) and do not have a clear idea of where exactly we think we might live in the future. We are from international backgrounds, as I stated before. We work in the international realm. We both have lived in several countries. We would even be interested in the possibility of living overseas when our children are a little older. ***My family moved from the Midwest to southern Africa when I was 11 years old. So it can be done and can be a very enriching experience for the whole family!
- So no, I am not buying a house here right now just because some rando on DCUM cannot stand that I am not interested and wants so hard to convince me otherwise.

- I am not throwing away money by renting; I am enjoying the peace of mind of living below my means in an excellent neighborhood, in a wonderful place, with great neighbors and landlord. We don't have to spend more money on our own appliances. I'm pretty happy with our current living situation and hope to stay here as many years as possible.

- I have the opposite of a "poverty mentality," lol. I think you don't know what that means. It is not based on how much money or what you have. As the examples I gave above of my neighbors with the same number or fewer kids than mine, who complain about not having enough space in their (owned) homes, with each child having their own bedroom, finished basements, patios, etc., people can be happy with what they have, or have a "poverty mentality" meaning they always think they don't have enough. We have enough. We don't lack anything. I'm happy about that. And.... I am happily not owning a home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mother of 4. I get it, op.

But the greatest gift you can give your kids is not being a financial burden to them as you age. You should focus on buying a little home and building your retirement and savings.

I posted about buying a home and I agree with this. I’m glad you’re ok with not helping your kids pay for college but I wouldn’t be. DH and I spent 15 years saving and paying off 100K of student loans before we had kids ajd could buy a house. Student loans really hurt us for the majority of our adult years as we lived on such a tight budget we could not do the things many of our working peers could do because every month we were spending upwards of 800 on loan and interest payments. Student loans are an albatross for your kids - we would have even married and had kids earlier had we not been so fiscally strapped. At a minimum you should be contributing to your retirement accounts and have college funds set up and have at least 4-6 months of savings in cash plus more if you’re being financially responsible. Your budget and lifestyle don’t sound like you have economic stability. Can you absorb a financial shock? Don’t you want to give your kids better than you had? I don’t know about you but it’s important to me for my kids to have greater economic security than I had. I got through college on used clothes from my friends, fast food/freezer meals, and Pell grants and I want more for my kids.

OP here. We have financial stability. We save over 20% of our income. We have emergency savings, retirement savings, TSP, etc. At this point in our lives I prefer building up our savings and living simply, renting (no 200K+ down payment), and waiting until we really want to buy a home before we do it. Not because random other people think it is necessary for a growing family.
I do think eventually we'll buy. Like, maybe when the oldest is in high school. We should have a better idea of where we'd want to live long-term at that point.
I'm 100% not interested in buying a home in the next 5 years at least.

I get it that to many people, that's the #1 financial move you must make after when you're financially stable.
I also have friends with 2 young daughters close in age, who have separate rooms, complain about not having much space in their 4 bedroom row house with a finished basement which is used as a massive playroom.
Another family of 5 in a row house complaining about wanting to move to TX so they can have a bigger house.
I'm so not of that mindset.
My 2nd oldest brother lives in the Midwest with his wife in a tiny home they built. Honestly at some point if we wanted our own home we'd probably have someone like him build us a little home on our own land.
But, again, that's not in the near future. More likely 10-20 years from now. We're happy where we are (next to one of the best DC elementary schools) and have no desire to buy here anytime soon.

So when you’re 55 you will then be signing up for a 30 year mortgage? When your kids are going to college? And you are approaching retirement? You think the home you can afford now you will be able to afford then with the rise in housing costs? It sounds to me like you have very short term thinking. Having retirement is good but are you putting enough into it? Like 15 percent? Your money is far better invested into a house for 10-20 years where it will appreciate and grow interest and you will build equity than it will in a savings account with a lousy return. Your mentality just strikes me as not trying to improve your financial station in life, and short sighted.

Haha no... Okay this is why I keep saying we obviously think and do very differently than most people around here.
No, we likely would never do a 30 year mortgage. 15, maybe. We don't like debt. I'm 33. So if all of you who are so focused on the BUY A HOUSE thing which I keep saying is not a huge factor in this at all for me... If this helps end this sentiment repeating, here is what my IDEAL home buying dream is:

Continue saving, living frugally, yes 3 kids can share a room at least until the oldest is a preteen. That's 8 years from now.
By then, our federal student loans will be forgiven as will both have been feds for over 10 years, making qualified payments.
Over the next several years we will have visited/checked out some options for where we might like to live when the kids are in high school (we don't really plan for our kids to go through all of middle or high school here. Elementary, yes, as we live 1 block away from one of the best).
We will have saved a lot for a hefty down payment and we have excellent credit.
So we'd likely buy a house. Then. In 8-15 years, when the kids are out of elementary school. Not now.
Hopefully that ends that. Lol.

It sounds like you have it all figured out in your mind and aren’t open to suggestions. But I’m telling you, you are making a huge mistake planning to rent for 8-15 more years and just then thinking you can jump into the housing market when your kids are in high school in a good school district. Kids of any age generally have difficulty moving. You think that somehow uprooting your 3 kids in middle school or high school is a good idea? Once they are settled and have a friend group, established activities, etc? And since you say you live in the best school district I’m guessing you probably live in NW DC and are a renter, which means at two fed salaries unless you can afford a 1.8 plus million house or more in 10 years time you’re going to have to relocate very far out to get a good school district because good schools in Maryland and Virginia that are close in have houses that are priced accordingly and those prices are rising faster than you can imagine. The housing market is so insane now even mediocre school districts have homes easily going for 700K or more. This will only get worse with time. The DC housing market is a rare animal - it’s always going up and you’d be a fool not to jump in the moment it’s humanly possible for you because you will literally lose hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting out.

Then there is just the sheer math of how much money you are literally flushing down the toilet in rent. Let’s say your rent for a family of 5 in your good school district is 3,000 a month. That’s 36K a year you are literally giving away and getting nothing back. Over 8 years that is 288,000. Over 15 years that is 540,000. And that is not even taking into account rent raises each year. You are literally telling me that you would rather live frugally and give away more than half a million dollars instead of buying a house and investing that money in yourself in an appreciable asset with a flat cost every month? Do you really think interest rates will stay this low forever?

You say that you don’t like debt, but you and your husband both have student loan debt so I’m guessing your smugness about not wanting to buy a house because of “debt” (which is a dumb argument - it doesn’t put you in the moral high ground like you seem to think it does) is really thinly veiled fear and jealousy that you cannot afford it. And while it is great that you love your kids, and want a big family, you are not doing them any favors by your poverty mentality. Don’t resign your kids to a future that isn’t any better than you. Speak to any kind of financial advisor or planner and they will tell you that planning to rent for 8-15 years is not a good way to ensure you and your family’s long term financial security.

Anonymous wrote:Tbh I think the type of people who love children and love raising them and caring for them in a stable home are exactly the kind of people that should have more. We have three and I love them, but I know I wouldn’t want more. The type of parents who look at three children and happily still want more are probably going to make great parents to more.

aaaw thank you!!
So true.
This thread has made me even more interested in fostering as an option in the future. I'd be able to say, "I'm done," with pregnancy and BFing, focus on our wonderful 3 children for now, but look forward to the possibility in the future of providing for another baby or child, when these ones are older.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mother of 4. I get it, op.

But the greatest gift you can give your kids is not being a financial burden to them as you age. You should focus on buying a little home and building your retirement and savings.

I posted about buying a home and I agree with this. I’m glad you’re ok with not helping your kids pay for college but I wouldn’t be. DH and I spent 15 years saving and paying off 100K of student loans before we had kids ajd could buy a house. Student loans really hurt us for the majority of our adult years as we lived on such a tight budget we could not do the things many of our working peers could do because every month we were spending upwards of 800 on loan and interest payments. Student loans are an albatross for your kids - we would have even married and had kids earlier had we not been so fiscally strapped. At a minimum you should be contributing to your retirement accounts and have college funds set up and have at least 4-6 months of savings in cash plus more if you’re being financially responsible. Your budget and lifestyle don’t sound like you have economic stability. Can you absorb a financial shock? Don’t you want to give your kids better than you had? I don’t know about you but it’s important to me for my kids to have greater economic security than I had. I got through college on used clothes from my friends, fast food/freezer meals, and Pell grants and I want more for my kids.

OP here. We have financial stability. We save over 20% of our income. We have emergency savings, retirement savings, TSP, etc. At this point in our lives I prefer building up our savings and living simply, renting (no 200K+ down payment), and waiting until we really want to buy a home before we do it. Not because random other people think it is necessary for a growing family.
I do think eventually we'll buy. Like, maybe when the oldest is in high school. We should have a better idea of where we'd want to live long-term at that point.
I'm 100% not interested in buying a home in the next 5 years at least.

I get it that to many people, that's the #1 financial move you must make after when you're financially stable.
I also have friends with 2 young daughters close in age, who have separate rooms, complain about not having much space in their 4 bedroom row house with a finished basement which is used as a massive playroom.
Another family of 5 in a row house complaining about wanting to move to TX so they can have a bigger house.
I'm so not of that mindset.
My 2nd oldest brother lives in the Midwest with his wife in a tiny home they built. Honestly at some point if we wanted our own home we'd probably have someone like him build us a little home on our own land.
But, again, that's not in the near future. More likely 10-20 years from now. We're happy where we are (next to one of the best DC elementary schools) and have no desire to buy here anytime soon.

So when you’re 55 you will then be signing up for a 30 year mortgage? When your kids are going to college? And you are approaching retirement? You think the home you can afford now you will be able to afford then with the rise in housing costs? It sounds to me like you have very short term thinking. Having retirement is good but are you putting enough into it? Like 15 percent? Your money is far better invested into a house for 10-20 years where it will appreciate and grow interest and you will build equity than it will in a savings account with a lousy return. Your mentality just strikes me as not trying to improve your financial station in life, and short sighted.

Haha no... Okay this is why I keep saying we obviously think and do very differently than most people around here.
No, we likely would never do a 30 year mortgage. 15, maybe. We don't like debt. I'm 33. So if all of you who are so focused on the BUY A HOUSE thing which I keep saying is not a huge factor in this at all for me... If this helps end this sentiment repeating, here is what my IDEAL home buying dream is:

Continue saving, living frugally, yes 3 kids can share a room at least until the oldest is a preteen. That's 8 years from now.
By then, our federal student loans will be forgiven as will both have been feds for over 10 years, making qualified payments.
Over the next several years we will have visited/checked out some options for where we might like to live when the kids are in high school (we don't really plan for our kids to go through all of middle or high school here. Elementary, yes, as we live 1 block away from one of the best).
We will have saved a lot for a hefty down payment and we have excellent credit.
So we'd likely buy a house. Then. In 8-15 years, when the kids are out of elementary school. Not now.
Hopefully that ends that. Lol.

Tbh I think the type of people who love children and love raising them and caring for them in a stable home are exactly the kind of people that should have more. We have three and I love them, but I know I wouldn’t want more. The type of parents who look at three children and happily still want more are probably going to make great parents to more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mother of 4. I get it, op.

But the greatest gift you can give your kids is not being a financial burden to them as you age. You should focus on buying a little home and building your retirement and savings.

I posted about buying a home and I agree with this. I’m glad you’re ok with not helping your kids pay for college but I wouldn’t be. DH and I spent 15 years saving and paying off 100K of student loans before we had kids ajd could buy a house. Student loans really hurt us for the majority of our adult years as we lived on such a tight budget we could not do the things many of our working peers could do because every month we were spending upwards of 800 on loan and interest payments. Student loans are an albatross for your kids - we would have even married and had kids earlier had we not been so fiscally strapped. At a minimum you should be contributing to your retirement accounts and have college funds set up and have at least 4-6 months of savings in cash plus more if you’re being financially responsible. Your budget and lifestyle don’t sound like you have economic stability. Can you absorb a financial shock? Don’t you want to give your kids better than you had? I don’t know about you but it’s important to me for my kids to have greater economic security than I had. I got through college on used clothes from my friends, fast food/freezer meals, and Pell grants and I want more for my kids.

OP here. We have financial stability. We save over 20% of our income. We have emergency savings, retirement savings, TSP, etc. At this point in our lives I prefer building up our savings and living simply, renting (no 200K+ down payment), and waiting until we really want to buy a home before we do it. Not because random other people think it is necessary for a growing family.
I do think eventually we'll buy. Like, maybe when the oldest is in high school. We should have a better idea of where we'd want to live long-term at that point.
I'm 100% not interested in buying a home in the next 5 years at least.

I get it that to many people, that's the #1 financial move you must make after when you're financially stable.
I also have friends with 2 young daughters close in age, who have separate rooms, complain about not having much space in their 4 bedroom row house with a finished basement which is used as a massive playroom.
Another family of 5 in a row house complaining about wanting to move to TX so they can have a bigger house.
I'm so not of that mindset.
My 2nd oldest brother lives in the Midwest with his wife in a tiny home they built. Honestly at some point if we wanted our own home we'd probably have someone like him build us a little home on our own land.
But, again, that's not in the near future. More likely 10-20 years from now. We're happy where we are (next to one of the best DC elementary schools) and have no desire to buy here anytime soon.

So when you’re 55 you will then be signing up for a 30 year mortgage? When your kids are going to college? And you are approaching retirement? You think the home you can afford now you will be able to afford then with the rise in housing costs? It sounds to me like you have very short term thinking. Having retirement is good but are you putting enough into it? Like 15 percent? Your money is far better invested into a house for 10-20 years where it will appreciate and grow interest and you will build equity than it will in a savings account with a lousy return. Your mentality just strikes me as not trying to improve your financial station in life, and short sighted.

I think you need to think ahead. A lot of your reasoning won’t work as the kids get older. You are fine with kids sharing a room now, but is that going to work when they are teenagers? It’s a lot harder when they are bigger and need more space and crave privacy. Hand me downs are great, but they become harder to use as kids get older and have (1) stronger opinions on what they want to wear, (2) different body shapes from the people giving you the clothes, and (3) specific clothes they need for specific events. Right now the kids all play together and laugh together, but as they get older they’ll spend more time with friends and doing their own activities. And some of those activities are really expensive. You make your own food and breastfeed now, but that’s not going to work as the kids get older. And teenage boys eat a TON of food. Just make sure you understand how it’s going to look like as the kids get older, because your needs and your kids’ needs will change drastically.

Anonymous wrote:I have 3 kids, and would love a 4th, but I’m leaning towards not. My main reasons are that I think the benefit of the 4th kid is mostly for me (and my DH), and less of a benefit for my 3 kids now. If we don’t have a 4th there is more space in our house for them, more individual attention from parents, more money for my kids to do activities and to help pay for college/grad school, we’ll have more $ to travel and will be able to take cooler trips sooner, etc etc. My kids already have two siblings, so it’s not like they are missing out on that if we decide to have a 4th. Having a 4th seems like a purely selfish decision by the parents who love having a new baby and enjoy getting to know another new person. I still love the idea of a 4th, but I can’t get past the idea that it really isn’t what is best for my existing children.

OP here. I agree with you! I honestly feel this too. Like, we have everything our children need. Oldest is in free PreK, this fall the 2nd will also be, and then we have the baby to raise... They have each other and they're happy. The selfish aspect is that we are baby crazy and thi k our babies are the most adorable things in the world. LOL.
I am increasingly leaning towards just stopping at 3. It will be kind of a relief when we just make that decision, and I will feel more mentally ready to focus on myself again (it may sound weird to some, but knowing I'd have more kids definitely made me feel like there wasn't much of a point in really getting back in shape before the next one).

Then I just have to convince DH to get a vasectomy. That will likely be another post, LOL!!! (I keep bringing it up and he kind of brushes it off... But if he doesn't do something soon we could end up with Baby #4 no matter what we decide!!!)