Anonymous
Post 01/13/2022 06:12     Subject: The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a big Catholic family and went to a church where the priests abused the kids. The Catholic church just wants an abundant fresh supply of kids and money from their parents. I could see thru the criminal enterprise at 13 and left the church at 18. I won't give them anymore kids or money.


I grew up in a big Catholic family and went to a church where this didn't happen.

Your experience, tragic and awful as it was, gives you no license to generalize.



Just because it didn't happen to you at your parish, your singular experience gives you no license to generalize.

All parishes are part of the pedo machine.


I didn't generalize. That's the point. Fail.


You did. You weren’t abused in your church so you generalized for all of the other kids at your church. You have no idea what really happened for every other kid there.
Anonymous
Post 01/13/2022 05:55     Subject: The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
Instead of calling people with one or no children selfish, perhaps the Pope should look at the larger issues that often influence a couple’s decision about the number of children they’ll have (e.g., an unequal economy that forces many people to work full-time or multiple jobs in order to make ends meet, overpopulation/overconsumption/environmental degradation).

Or, better yet, perhaps the Pope should mind his own business.

I’m not Catholic anymore, but I expected better from him.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 19:12     Subject: Re:The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
I became pregnant via IVF so know that personal h*ll and many people want kids, but for various circumstances can’t have them.
My personal experience is that some friends never married and they did not pursue single parenthood. Some (I think) would have loved to raise a family. Some maybe not.

There is a bizarre focus for some people on animals take the place of children. I love animals, domestic and wild but don’t equate them with a child, anyone’s child. I know a few people who equate their animal to the needs of a child.

Also, you can have multiple children and have less of a footprint than a family with 1 DC. The environmental issue would be better served with changes to our industry/ factory behaviors, food source changes, transportation changes, etc.

I do know some people who decided not to have kids who are pretty self-centered. I think the other thing he was getting at was the focus on the material items. I can only have one b/c we could give them all the material ‘things’. I don’t find this surprising coming from the Pope.

Personally, I think people should make their own decisions and not make this decision based on current norms or mores.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 17:06     Subject: The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
People who don't want children should not have children. I love my children (now adults) and I loved the experience of raising them but it was hard and would have been harder if I didn't totally want them in the first place. Being a parent is not for everyone and there should be no judgement when someone chooses not to have children.

That being said, my kids should hurry up and give me grandkids!!
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 17:00     Subject: Re:The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
So glad the Pope is judging me for only having one kid in our 8 years of marriage despite trying to conceive the entire time. Oh and the infertile should "just adopt." Is he going to give me $40k? I left Catholicism for theological reasons but being treated like a second-class citizen and constantly side-eyed made it very easy to leave.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:53     Subject: The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
Anonymous wrote:He’s got a point on the pet thing. People do spend enormous time and energy on pets, and seem to be getting more and more attached. Not that it’s a zero-sum game, but some of that energy could be spent on helping the poor, tutoring kids, etc. I also think it’s nuts that we slaughter millions of cows, chickens, and pigs annually to feed pets.


But you can make that argument about anything non-essential. People who go on vacation could spend that time, energy, and money on helping the poor etc. Or sub in any hobby for pets or vacation.

It's a pointless argument.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:45     Subject: Re:The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
He also criticized Trump’s wall on our southern border....even though the pope lives in a walled city. He’s a giant hypocrite.

He’s also not a true follower of Jesus. He lives the life of a king in fancy clothing and residing in a palace. A true follower would dedicate his life to serving others and living amongst the people.

Now he’s criticizing women for not having more kids when he didn’t have any himself. He’s terrible.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:45     Subject: Re:The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have Catholic friends who struggled silently with infertility for years and years. They're finally expecting their first at 41 and probably won't be able to have a second. It kills me that any busy bodies in their church community would use these words from the Pope to judge them as selfish for even a moment. They are already heartbroken that they'll never have a big family. The last thing they need is to be looked down upon or judged by their faith community, nor should they have to share their story of interventions, surgeries and miscarriages.


Huh? The Pope never said or implied that people who have fertility problems are selfish.

Actually, he did. He said those people need to adopt.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:41     Subject: Re:The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have Catholic friends who struggled silently with infertility for years and years. They're finally expecting their first at 41 and probably won't be able to have a second. It kills me that any busy bodies in their church community would use these words from the Pope to judge them as selfish for even a moment. They are already heartbroken that they'll never have a big family. The last thing they need is to be looked down upon or judged by their faith community, nor should they have to share their story of interventions, surgeries and miscarriages.


Huh? The Pope never said or implied that people who have fertility problems are selfish.

How does anyone know if an only child is by choice? People make assumptions and judge.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:38     Subject: The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
I wonder how many unmarked chills graves exist on church property. I’d love to hear the pope expound on how the church, and it’s authorities, values those lives
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:33     Subject: Re:The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
Anonymous wrote:I have Catholic friends who struggled silently with infertility for years and years. They're finally expecting their first at 41 and probably won't be able to have a second. It kills me that any busy bodies in their church community would use these words from the Pope to judge them as selfish for even a moment. They are already heartbroken that they'll never have a big family. The last thing they need is to be looked down upon or judged by their faith community, nor should they have to share their story of interventions, surgeries and miscarriages.


Huh? The Pope never said or implied that people who have fertility problems are selfish.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:31     Subject: The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a big Catholic family and went to a church where the priests abused the kids. The Catholic church just wants an abundant fresh supply of kids and money from their parents. I could see thru the criminal enterprise at 13 and left the church at 18. I won't give them anymore kids or money.


I grew up in a big Catholic family and went to a church where this didn't happen.

Your experience, tragic and awful as it was, gives you no license to generalize.



Just because it didn't happen to you at your parish, your singular experience gives you no license to generalize.

All parishes are part of the pedo machine.


I didn't generalize. That's the point. Fail.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:20     Subject: The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
Anonymous wrote:These remarks by the pope are simply indefensible. What a disgrace:

"Today we see a form of selfishness. We see that people do not want to have children, or just one and no more. And many, many couples do not have children because they do not want to, or they have just one -- but they have two dogs, two cats ... Yes, dogs and cats take the place of children," the Pope told an audience at the Vatican Wednesday.
"This denial of fatherhood or motherhood diminishes us, it takes away our humanity," he added.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/09/opinions/pope-wrong-about-having-children-currie/index.html

So people who cannot afford to have children are "selfish"? People who are worried about known genetic problems are "selfish"? People who have faced the heartache of fertility problems should just try, try again and not stop trying because that would be "selfish"? People still dealing with the trauma of childhood abuse, neglect or parents with addiction problems are "selfish"? Parents who cannot physically have more than one child, or who cannot afford more than one child, or who are focused on caring for a child with special needs or another difficult diagnosis are "selfish"?

What an un-Christian, immoral thing to say. Especially from someone who made a CHOICE not to be a parent...a career-related choice. And he said it during a pandemic, when many have lost their jobs. He said it as the planet is unstable from the affects of climate change, and a future for any child is likely to be difficult and uncertain.

I can't believe anyone still sees this person as a moral authority.


I mean, it's pretty clear that he's talking about people who are childfree by actual choice, not because of genetic problems or fertility issues or lack of resources. But regardless, I agree that it's silly. For the most part, people have kids bc they want to, or stay childfree bc they want to. Neither is more "selfish" than the other.

That said, are you surprised that he feels this way? It's the Catholic Church's position, and has been for centuries. Consider not caring what the Pope says about anything...I have been doing it for my whole life with great results
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:20     Subject: Re:The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
I have Catholic friends who struggled silently with infertility for years and years. They're finally expecting their first at 41 and probably won't be able to have a second. It kills me that any busy bodies in their church community would use these words from the Pope to judge them as selfish for even a moment. They are already heartbroken that they'll never have a big family. The last thing they need is to be looked down upon or judged by their faith community, nor should they have to share their story of interventions, surgeries and miscarriages.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 13:07     Subject: The pope calls child-free people/parents of only children 'selfish'
Anonymous wrote:I would prefer that people refrain from having children they do not willing to sacrifice anything personally to raise. You cannot work 50 plus hours per week and be a present parent. I'd rather people be selfish on the front end by deciding not to have children than having children and being selfish about living their own life like they never had kids.


You think most people working 50 hours a week are doing it for fun? And not, say, because they earn a low wage and need the money to feed and clothe their kids?