Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 23:03     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:OP—it sounds like you want the SW to explain to your parents that they cannot live alone and that they need to sell their home in order to pay for care.

If I’m incorrect, what is it you want the SW to do that they are not doing?


Problem is solved. My parents are watching how badly my aunt is having it with medicare due to her terminal diagnosis and now understand that they do NOT want to lose control of their own future.

They finally learned that what the government giveth, the government taketh away.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 22:24     Subject: Re:For those well-meaning social workers
OP, I'm really sorry that there are people on this thread taking shots at you/telling you that you need anger management/saying you're not a nice person/whatever. They haven't been there, and they don't know what it is like. And I totally get how hard it can be to talk to the SW who is the professional who is supposed to be helping your parents and to have that professional unwilling to recognize that the parents are making a very bad choice that affects the whole family, not just them.

It's easy to say "hire help" but then the parents reject the help or bully the help. I've had people quit on my elderly relative after one afternoon and tell their managers that they will never set foot in her house again. Out there just isn't money for help. People have no idea how expensive it is. And as the child, what are your options? It's fine to say "it's the parents' money and the parents' choice and if they go bankrupt that's their choice," but the truth is that you as the child will feel enormous internal and external pressure to start paying their bills.

I'm really sorry - this stuff is so difficult. Hang in there.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 21:11     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.


The reaction to OP is because she expects social workers to solve family problems. Her parents are competent but made decisions that OP doesn’t like. OP wants the social workers to do what OP wants and is ranting against them because they are doing exactly what they are legally obligated to do.


I don’t understand what she even wants the social workers to do. They can set up a nursing home and transport her parents there, but it sounds like they will just leave and go home. (From what I’m reading, OP will probably pick them up and drive them home, then be upset at the nursing home staff.)



A hospital or hospice social worker can set up a nursing home but not transport.


They can set up transport. What they cannot do is force them to stay or promise the SNF that they will be paid (by people who don’t want to pay them.)
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 19:20     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I lived through a similar situation with my parents and it almost ruined my own health. I really think that the government needs to help elderly people who are sick and broke. The resources of a family are rarely enough to care for sick, aging parents. Other countries take better care of elderly through government resources, the US is failing the elderly.


That’s what social security is for. Granted for many it’s insufficient to maintain the lifestyle that they want. But the government does provide aid.

Money isn't the only thing that elderly people need. My parents are very well-off financially, but I worry about their ability to take care of themselves physically and maintain their home.


You hire help. Simple.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 19:19     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP. I don't get the vitriol towards you. You are in a difficult and stressful situation and of course you can't shut down your whole life to save unwilling adults. Your parents are reaping the harvest of years of poor decisions. You need a therapist or some other support to help you figure out what emotional and logistical support you are able to offer so you can spend the remaining time you have with them in peace.


The reaction to OP is because she expects social workers to solve family problems. Her parents are competent but made decisions that OP doesn’t like. OP wants the social workers to do what OP wants and is ranting against them because they are doing exactly what they are legally obligated to do.


I don’t understand what she even wants the social workers to do. They can set up a nursing home and transport her parents there, but it sounds like they will just leave and go home. (From what I’m reading, OP will probably pick them up and drive them home, then be upset at the nursing home staff.)



A hospital or hospice social worker can set up a nursing home but not transport.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 19:18     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Sister is handling it day to day or is just ignoring it. Sister flys in and really does't want to help and is complaining about it. Just let your sister deal with it. Problem solved.

She can hire them help till they need to be move and then move them to a nursing home.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 19:13     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:Hard to understand all the issues. The OP lives out of town. She is now in the city where her parents are and also her aunt. A few questions: Is your sister local to your parents? Does the aunt have children of her own?

I am sorry your parents are not being cooperative. They (your parents) think they are okay, but you and your sister don’t think they are. Do I have this right? You and your sister need to have an intervention of sorts to steer your parents to a retirement home either in your area or your sister’s. The reality is that your parents aren’t going to improve. This can be a difficult time when parents are local. Out of town makes it impossible.


I used to think like this too before I dealt with my challenging aging parents and inlaws. I am sure there are some where an "intervention" works. Usually they insist on doing as they dam well please and are determined to age in place. The lose all ability to empathize with what it is to deal with all the emergencies and it's all about their needs and wants like a toddler, but with guilt trips and scary rage, but I digress. Good luck OP!!
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 18:26     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Hard to understand all the issues. The OP lives out of town. She is now in the city where her parents are and also her aunt. A few questions: Is your sister local to your parents? Does the aunt have children of her own?

I am sorry your parents are not being cooperative. They (your parents) think they are okay, but you and your sister don’t think they are. Do I have this right? You and your sister need to have an intervention of sorts to steer your parents to a retirement home either in your area or your sister’s. The reality is that your parents aren’t going to improve. This can be a difficult time when parents are local. Out of town makes it impossible.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 18:14     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I flew cross-country in the middle of a pandemic thinking my mother was on death's door. She (thankfully) survived and is at the end of acute rehab and going home tomorrow. My aunt lives nearby and is in end-stage cancer. I didn't know how end-stage it was until I got here (she sounds better on the phone then she actually is). So I've been bouncing for the past two weeks between rehab and my aunt's home. The first thing my mother says when I get here is "oh good, now your sister can continue to work". Um, I had to close my business to come here on an open-ended timeframe.

My mother and father are still under the delusion they can live alone, far from family, because she's afraid to change. The social workers are all "oh, your mother is afraid"... in other words...feeeeeellinnnnngs. Me: "My father had a stroke years ago and needs some caretaking himself. They are out of money. They can feel any way they want but they can't afford this anymore. They have to sell the house". Social worker: Bunch of caring words but no practical solutions. Me: "I understand she's scared. That does not change the reality of being out of money and not being able to afford living alone anymore. It's not safe. My sister cannot do to the heavy lifting required to take care of two frail people, one heavy-set". Social worker: "But they don't waaanttt toooo leaaaaveeeee". Me: "Can you or the state provide them with full-time care that they can't afford to pay for?" Social worker: "But they have family". Me: "Family who can't physically do the work and financially can't afford to pay someone out of pocket for that full-time care". Social worker: "Silence".

On top of that, I overheard the home hospice manager telling the NP that I am the freaking primary caregiver for my aunt. I followed her out and said that simply wasn't true, that I am from out of state, and that I can only stay a week more at most, and that I came to help with my mother. I laid it all out that I am not certified to do hospice work, that they are to provide the full benefits she's entitled to. They had no qualms dumping this all on me.

I told my sister today that if our parents remain delusional, I plan to get back on a plane and never come back. There are many solutions here and my parents refuse to entertain ANY of them, or pretend to, then change their mind. My mother and father can pass the cognitive tests but are physically dependent and my mother's emotional maturity is now that of a child most times. That is never taken into consideration by any 'well-meaning' social worker, doctor, elder-care lawyer, etc.



I think the social worker is perhaps trying to find some glimmer of compassion in you. Maybe it comes across as harsh for you to label your mother and father "delusional," so she is gently trying to make you understand that "they are just scared."

TBH, for someone who is so down on emotions, you sound pretty angry and impatient.

Try having a CALM discussion with the social worker. Compose a list of topics, with your sister, that you could send the social work in advance. Tell her that you hope to address them at a meeting. Say that you are seeking their help with practical needs that will be challenging, given your family's limited bandwidth/resources. Make your list specific (like someone strong enough to lift the heavy parent: can she write a referral for a hoist for example).

You need to approach the social worker from a respectful place. You sound very dismissive. Your parents are her clients. She is advocating for them.

You have every right to set limits. But you should appreciate the professionals who are trying to support your parents in their twilight years.

If ALL of the professionals involved in their care are on a different page than you, it is time for some self-reflection.


Not OP here, but defending OP. I don't get the sense you have a lot of experience with challenging parents. I do-my own. A friend who i used to commiserate literally watched her father die. Perhaps delusional is a word that offends, but the man who was deemed cognitively fit, insisted he was safe on the steps despite several previous falls. Right after the last time he told off his daughter, he fell down the steps for the last time and died. They had a case manager and there was nothing she legally do to force a chairlift or to have them move downstairs. A very young OT who came to the home was not very helpful either. This man did not even admit his gait was slow and unsteady. My mother had a pot on fire as she told me she was totally safe in the kitchen. She had poured olive oil onto the burner, yet she passed her cognitive tests.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 14:45     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:I flew cross-country in the middle of a pandemic thinking my mother was on death's door. She (thankfully) survived and is at the end of acute rehab and going home tomorrow. My aunt lives nearby and is in end-stage cancer. I didn't know how end-stage it was until I got here (she sounds better on the phone then she actually is). So I've been bouncing for the past two weeks between rehab and my aunt's home. The first thing my mother says when I get here is "oh good, now your sister can continue to work". Um, I had to close my business to come here on an open-ended timeframe.

My mother and father are still under the delusion they can live alone, far from family, because she's afraid to change. The social workers are all "oh, your mother is afraid"... in other words...feeeeeellinnnnngs. Me: "My father had a stroke years ago and needs some caretaking himself. They are out of money. They can feel any way they want but they can't afford this anymore. They have to sell the house". Social worker: Bunch of caring words but no practical solutions. Me: "I understand she's scared. That does not change the reality of being out of money and not being able to afford living alone anymore. It's not safe. My sister cannot do to the heavy lifting required to take care of two frail people, one heavy-set". Social worker: "But they don't waaanttt toooo leaaaaveeeee". Me: "Can you or the state provide them with full-time care that they can't afford to pay for?" Social worker: "But they have family". Me: "Family who can't physically do the work and financially can't afford to pay someone out of pocket for that full-time care". Social worker: "Silence".

On top of that, I overheard the home hospice manager telling the NP that I am the freaking primary caregiver for my aunt. I followed her out and said that simply wasn't true, that I am from out of state, and that I can only stay a week more at most, and that I came to help with my mother. I laid it all out that I am not certified to do hospice work, that they are to provide the full benefits she's entitled to. They had no qualms dumping this all on me.

I told my sister today that if our parents remain delusional, I plan to get back on a plane and never come back. There are many solutions here and my parents refuse to entertain ANY of them, or pretend to, then change their mind. My mother and father can pass the cognitive tests but are physically dependent and my mother's emotional maturity is now that of a child most times. That is never taken into consideration by any 'well-meaning' social worker, doctor, elder-care lawyer, etc.



I think the social worker is perhaps trying to find some glimmer of compassion in you. Maybe it comes across as harsh for you to label your mother and father "delusional," so she is gently trying to make you understand that "they are just scared."

TBH, for someone who is so down on emotions, you sound pretty angry and impatient.

Try having a CALM discussion with the social worker. Compose a list of topics, with your sister, that you could send the social work in advance. Tell her that you hope to address them at a meeting. Say that you are seeking their help with practical needs that will be challenging, given your family's limited bandwidth/resources. Make your list specific (like someone strong enough to lift the heavy parent: can she write a referral for a hoist for example).

You need to approach the social worker from a respectful place. You sound very dismissive. Your parents are her clients. She is advocating for them.

You have every right to set limits. But you should appreciate the professionals who are trying to support your parents in their twilight years.

If ALL of the professionals involved in their care are on a different page than you, it is time for some self-reflection.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 14:29     Subject: Re:For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think you aren’t getting it, OP. These aren’t just well-meaning words. The SW is trying to explain something to you. Your parents are adults, and they can make their own decisions about where to live and how to run their lives whether you agree with them or not. In fact, there is no other option. Medical professionals can’t force people to make better decisions about their health and finances.


If they are competent nothing can be done.


And if they aren’t competent, then what? OP is going to become their legal guardian?


My experience is someone can clearly be incompetent, but still be considered competent after an doctor evaluates. If that is the case, there is nothing you can do, though the relatives and unhelpful siblings will think you have a magic wand you can wave. If the person is declared incompetent then Health POA can make some choices, but good luck. Sometimes it takes a lot of meds to get the difficult ones to comply. It's pretty miserable. Sure you go for guardianship too. Someone on here kept saying how easy it was. Not for us.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 14:25     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I lived through a similar situation with my parents and it almost ruined my own health. I really think that the government needs to help elderly people who are sick and broke. The resources of a family are rarely enough to care for sick, aging parents. Other countries take better care of elderly through government resources, the US is failing the elderly.


That’s what social security is for. Granted for many it’s insufficient to maintain the lifestyle that they want. But the government does provide aid.

Money isn't the only thing that elderly people need. My parents are very well-off financially, but I worry about their ability to take care of themselves physically and maintain their home.


Posting again. I so relate to this as well. If you are not health POA or financial POA it is not your issue. You simply make it the problem of the person who is. They can hire someone to manage the home and hire people to come to the home to monitor the parents. I made myself so ill and so angry obsessing over all my parents' stupid choices and how much safer they would be elsewhere. For my mental and physical health I had to to let go. A friend of mine had 2 small strokes dealing with her crazy elderly mother. That was the final straw that made me understand they could actually outlive me if I didn't detach more. (That friend actually moved away and somehow the uninterested siblings finally stepped up).

Let go of the idea of them dying peacefully in a luxurious residential facility where they enjoyed dining and going on day trips with friends. They may die falling down the steps all alone in their home after yet another aide quit because she could not take their verbal abuse and you could not lose your job to come fill in. They could die choking on food after spending all day on the sofa watching TV and calling their adult kids to leave guilt trippy messaged. If the person made the choice of sound mind, no matter how gruesome, at least their wishes were respected.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 14:16     Subject: Re:For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:The problem is that you keep bailing them out. You show up while saying you can’t show up. Moving your parents is an incredibly difficult feat if they do not consent. But showing up means there is no crisis so the social workers have no power.

The problem is your parents, not the social worker. And secondarily, your unwillingness to allow a crisis to occur which would allow a social worker to actually step in, you and your family show up. Your expectations are out of whack.


What this person is saying is something I had to learn too...You need to STOP enabling them. By showing up each time, you make it so no crisis forces their hand.I did it for many years. I relate to your rage and frustration. I made myself physically sick.

Forget about the judgment of relatives. You just calmly say your priorities. My child with SN needs me right now/husband is ill/job is overwhelming so I am only able to do y and Z. I hear your concern. What will you be doing to help out?" You have to put up an emotional shield to any guilt trips even the ones in your own mind. You also explain you have no control over your parent. "The experts are respecting their wishes. They are considered of sound mind. Please feel free to try to convince my parents to move to H if you think that is what needed."

You have to have boundaries. Yes, they could die and they would die on their own terms. I had to make peace with that too. Is it such a bad thing for a person to die earlier on their own terms then to do in your own health battling someone to follow your agenda so they can live 4 months, a year and 5 years longer? Stop fearing their death. You must intervene if they are harming others like driving when incapable, but if they want to juggle knives and the experts say they have the mental capacity to make a sound decision and it's legal then you have to let them juggle knives as long as an innocent bystander can't be harmed.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 13:21     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I lived through a similar situation with my parents and it almost ruined my own health. I really think that the government needs to help elderly people who are sick and broke. The resources of a family are rarely enough to care for sick, aging parents. Other countries take better care of elderly through government resources, the US is failing the elderly.


That’s what social security is for. Granted for many it’s insufficient to maintain the lifestyle that they want. But the government does provide aid.

Money isn't the only thing that elderly people need. My parents are very well-off financially, but I worry about their ability to take care of themselves physically and maintain their home.


Those are services that can be purchased. And once they run out of money they can apply for Medicaid and get nursing home services if they are truly incapable of caring for themselves. Or they can downsize to a place they can manage or to a assisted living. There are options especially for people like your parents who have money. They might not like them, but they exist.
Anonymous
Post 12/29/2021 13:21     Subject: For those well-meaning social workers
I'm a social worker and deal with situations like this frequently. OP, your expectations are way off. First of all - our job is to help our clients self determine. If you and I were having this conversation, I would be empathizing and validating your concerns but nothing else. Your family members don't want to do what you want them to do. As far as I can tell from your post they are competent and making their own decisions. So what you want really doesn't matter. If you want something to change, work with your family members directly. We social workers are not in the business of pushing our clients to do what their nasty/entitled/condescending relatives want them to do.

Also - our elder care system sucks and is lacking in so many ways.