Anonymous
Post 01/10/2022 09:24     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Yes, there are bad birthdays - there was a whole thread on this a few months ago. But there is also puberty. Which gives a big advantage to the kids who are going through it in swim and those that have yet to - which has nothing to do with age. Some of our team's best swimmers are the girls who are starting and have gone through puberty. We have a ten year old with an April birthday. Her times are faster than most of the 12s. She has a good birthday and also is going through puberty. Now there is a chance in a few years the others will all catch up and surpass. That is the nature of any sport.

Who is to say your kid in a few a years won't be in a better position that others.


This is true, and it renders times and rankings especially in the 11-12 age group nearly meaningless. But coaches know this. Anyway, once kids hit 13-14 and especially high school age, the birthday no longer matters. In fact, winter birthdays might be better although fall would generally be the best (except for maybe redshirted summer kids).


11-12 age group is a sh*t show and meaningless. You have puberty and huge disparities. I will take the kid making decent times at 11 that is nowhere near puberty over the kid making JO cuts that has already been through it. The second kid is done, they are not going to get much better. Meanwhile their peers will be improving and growing over the next few years. It is good to have bad years and not to be the best. Focus on technique and it evens out.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2022 08:27     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:

Yes, there are bad birthdays - there was a whole thread on this a few months ago. But there is also puberty. Which gives a big advantage to the kids who are going through it in swim and those that have yet to - which has nothing to do with age. Some of our team's best swimmers are the girls who are starting and have gone through puberty. We have a ten year old with an April birthday. Her times are faster than most of the 12s. She has a good birthday and also is going through puberty. Now there is a chance in a few years the others will all catch up and surpass. That is the nature of any sport.

Who is to say your kid in a few a years won't be in a better position that others.


This is true, and it renders times and rankings especially in the 11-12 age group nearly meaningless. But coaches know this. Anyway, once kids hit 13-14 and especially high school age, the birthday no longer matters. In fact, winter birthdays might be better although fall would generally be the best (except for maybe redshirted summer kids).
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2022 07:54     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday


Yes, there are bad birthdays - there was a whole thread on this a few months ago. But there is also puberty. Which gives a big advantage to the kids who are going through it in swim and those that have yet to - which has nothing to do with age. Some of our team's best swimmers are the girls who are starting and have gone through puberty. We have a ten year old with an April birthday. Her times are faster than most of the 12s. She has a good birthday and also is going through puberty. Now there is a chance in a few years the others will all catch up and surpass. That is the nature of any sport.

Who is to say your kid in a few a years won't be in a better position that others.
Anonymous
Post 01/10/2022 07:47     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:At least it's a good birthday for school. My kid was born in September and we could either make him the youngest in the class or one of the oldest. Can't say that swimming cutoff dates ever entered my mind.


Yep, us too. And we opted for the oldest and I have had good friends attack me that I was redshirting on purpose. First, not red shirting and second, I didn't want my kid going to college at 17. We moved around a lot too, and Virginia's cut off was just annoying.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 11:53     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Age always matters. It lessons when guys are in their 20s. For women it is a few years earlier. But it matters. Kids who are “top” in their group in any sport get access to better teams, events and coaching. Bill is better than Joe. But, Bill is eleven months older than Joe. When Joe is Bill’s age “now” Joe may be better than Bill, but Bill will be improved over where he was 11 months ago.

When kids are 10, an 11 month advantage in age makes the older kid about 10% older than the youngest competitors in the age group. It obviously makes a very big difference. A few years back, the US Soccer folks actually tried out a dual system so they would have “younger” kids working with “younger” kids, and “older” with “older”. You could look at birthdates for youth national team players (started at 15) and see that about half the kids on the national teams had birthdates between Jan 1 and March 31.






Didn’t Malcom Gladwell write an entire book about this?


Yes he did. Outliers.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 11:51     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:My swimmer daughter (13) with a "bad" swim birthday told me yesterday she plans for her kids to be born in August. I said hopefully not this coming August.


Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 10:54     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
There are more important things to get upset about.
Anonymous
Post 01/09/2022 10:48     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
My swimmer daughter (13) with a "bad" swim birthday told me yesterday she plans for her kids to be born in August. I said hopefully not this coming August.
Anonymous
Post 01/08/2022 11:46     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:Age always matters. It lessons when guys are in their 20s. For women it is a few years earlier. But it matters. Kids who are “top” in their group in any sport get access to better teams, events and coaching. Bill is better than Joe. But, Bill is eleven months older than Joe. When Joe is Bill’s age “now” Joe may be better than Bill, but Bill will be improved over where he was 11 months ago.

When kids are 10, an 11 month advantage in age makes the older kid about 10% older than the youngest competitors in the age group. It obviously makes a very big difference. A few years back, the US Soccer folks actually tried out a dual system so they would have “younger” kids working with “younger” kids, and “older” with “older”. You could look at birthdates for youth national team players (started at 15) and see that about half the kids on the national teams had birthdates between Jan 1 and March 31.






Didn’t Malcom Gladwell write an entire book about this?
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 23:47     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:^ It’s hard to tell exactly what you are trying to say, but you’re splitting hairs. The point is that winter birthdays approximately December-early March are at a huge disadvantage at the age group level as compared to say, an April birthday.


Ok. Your kid has plenty of company. Can’t be helped. Move on.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 22:15     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
^ It’s hard to tell exactly what you are trying to say, but you’re splitting hairs. The point is that winter birthdays approximately December-early March are at a huge disadvantage at the age group level as compared to say, an April birthday.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 21:44     Subject: Re:Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one is going on and on about it. It may be mentioned by someone or someone’s but that’s it. It isn’t like this is raised every single time your kid practices.


Agree. And I’m doubtful that OP’s son is expressing any bad feelings about his birthday that is 2 months away. OP sounds a bit overly invested in this narrative.


Glad you two know more about what’s going on with my kid and how he’s feeling than I do. Especially since you’ve never met him.

Look, it sucks to see your 10 year old kid dreading his birthday. There is one coach in particular who only cares about winning age group champs, the rest are much better and focus on long term development. This coach seems almost angry with my son for aging up, because in general he is scoring tons of points for the team. Luckily aging up also means he will move to a new coach.

Not sure why I would make this stuff up. My point was that this is a sport, and it’s for fun, and there is zero need for a fifth grader to be made to feel bad for being born in February.


You’re the one saying parents and swimmers were also “all over him” about his Bday and aging up. The story, as presented initially, doesn’t ring true. What swim parents would go on and on about this unless taking your lead (and you’re raising it first)?


I don’t know what to tell you. I am not bringing it up but I had two parents approach me at pickup today after practice with sad faces and saying how much it sucks that my kid ages up before champs and won’t be with the current group placing top in age group. Then my son came out of practice feeling down about a comment from the coach. Aging up in swimming is a big deal and people talk about it. Just because you haven’t had the same experience doesn’t mean you know anything about what’s going on with a kid you’ve never met. What do you mean when you say, “ the story, as presented initially, doesn’t ring true?” It’s not a “story,” it’s what is going in in my kid’s life. I have no reason to lie about it.


Be thankful. My son has a worse birthday and you’ll see that from 13+ it is much, much harder.

Example:

10 and under jo cut for a boy, 50 free: 32.59
That’s about a second and a half slower than an A time.

11-12 year old boy jo cut, 50 free: 28.39
Slower than an A time

13-14 year old boy jo cut, 50 free 24.99
That’s faster than an A time, but slower than an AA time.

It is what it is. Why bemoan about this? Teach him how to handle it.


This doesn’t make sense for multiple reasons. First, how is the birthday worse? Early March? Doubt four weeks makes much difference when you’re talking 11 month differences. Second, if your kids is really good, it’s definitely not worse at 13+. Specific age starts to matter much less as they start to qualify for senior events. The best swimmers aren’t worried about age group cuts at 13-14.


Well, March is worse than February; using that theory, then January is just as bad as Feb. or March. We have travel meets where the cut is harder for a 14 year old than a 13 year old. This is completely different than a senior event where the cut is stagnant for all ages.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 21:06     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:Age always matters. It lessons when guys are in their 20s. For women it is a few years earlier. But it matters. Kids who are “top” in their group in any sport get access to better teams, events and coaching. Bill is better than Joe. But, Bill is eleven months older than Joe. When Joe is Bill’s age “now” Joe may be better than Bill, but Bill will be improved over where he was 11 months ago.

When kids are 10, an 11 month advantage in age makes the older kid about 10% older than the youngest competitors in the age group. It obviously makes a very big difference. A few years back, the US Soccer folks actually tried out a dual system so they would have “younger” kids working with “younger” kids, and “older” with “older”. You could look at birthdates for youth national team players (started at 15) and see that about half the kids on the national teams had birthdates between Jan 1 and March 31.






This is all true but for swimming, specifically, birthday does not matter in the same way once they get to high school except with regard to age in relation to school year, with “older for grade” kids having the advantage. Age group swimming is different in that kids are ranked based on age, not grade. At 15+, swimmers are ranked in “open” age groups and compared to cohorts in their graduating class. A February birthday is not the worst but it’s not great either, considering how many people redshirt summer birthdays. There is often a turning of the tables with late spring/summer non-redshirted birthdays who were the top of age group for age group champs but are young for grade.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 20:43     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Anonymous wrote:Maybe sports just aren’t for him then if it bothers him. He should grow thicker skin


Or change his focus to something more worthwhile.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 20:18     Subject: Tired of people telling my son he has a “terrible” birthday
Age always matters. It lessons when guys are in their 20s. For women it is a few years earlier. But it matters. Kids who are “top” in their group in any sport get access to better teams, events and coaching. Bill is better than Joe. But, Bill is eleven months older than Joe. When Joe is Bill’s age “now” Joe may be better than Bill, but Bill will be improved over where he was 11 months ago.

When kids are 10, an 11 month advantage in age makes the older kid about 10% older than the youngest competitors in the age group. It obviously makes a very big difference. A few years back, the US Soccer folks actually tried out a dual system so they would have “younger” kids working with “younger” kids, and “older” with “older”. You could look at birthdates for youth national team players (started at 15) and see that about half the kids on the national teams had birthdates between Jan 1 and March 31.