Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 14:57     Subject: Re:Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Some people want to move to the suburbs and get the nice big house, the top schools, and a highly convenient location along with some cute walkable retail blocks that will slightly remind them of a city neighborhood and make them feel better about living in the suburbs.

If this is you, remember: McLean. Does. Not. Care. About. Your. Feelings.

Or, more accurately, the Montgomery family that owns three of the major strip malls in central McLean doesn't care about your feelings. They'll redevelop their properties and take advantage of the up-zoning approved by the county when they are ready, not when you are ready. Or maybe never, since most of their properties are leased and have paying tenants.

That's why it's best for people who live in McLean to never expect anything to change, and then just be pleasantly surprised when it does.

"We're getting a Chipotle? Great."

"Chopt and Cava moved in? Yeah."

"Santini's opened up? Fine."

"Divan, that new Persian place? Have to try it sometime."

"Matchbox is coming? Sounds good."
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 12:05     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:McLean is the most convenient place on earth. No clue what OP is talking about. They have the nicest Giant I've ever seen, Balducci's grocery, The Organic Butcher, Santinis subs, Starbucks, Cava, a ton of restaurants, Total Wine, a nice hardware store, Sherwin Williams, Ben Moore, dry cleaners, a toy store, a ton of salons, two 7-11s, and it's right by both Tysons malls. What more do you want???


The most convenient place on earth? Ok.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 11:08     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:And why are there no ice cream shops?? Seems like there should be some quaint homemade ice cream place.

Yes, there are. Starnut gourmet is one.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 10:51     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:And why are there no ice cream shops?? Seems like there should be some quaint homemade ice cream place.


Several of the sandwich/salad/coffee and bakery places have ice cream or gelato. If you crave a Blizzard you will have to go to Vienna.

Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 09:59     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:And why are there no ice cream shops?? Seems like there should be some quaint homemade ice cream place.


Why are there no workhouses? That would be a great way to staff the ice cream shop!
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 09:31     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
And why are there no ice cream shops?? Seems like there should be some quaint homemade ice cream place.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 09:29     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The ultra wealthy don’t really care about the same things you care about.



The ultrawealthy in cosmopolitan cities want amenities. Maybe not in backwoods Virginia.


Except backwoods Virginia is pretty much from where they originated.



Yet they moved on
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 09:16     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry noob question here as I just moved. Isn’t Mclean supposed to be an ultra wealthy area?


They've been trying to redevelop downtown McLean for a couple of decades but the surrounding homeowners associations/residents have been aggressive about petitioning for limitations. Primarily around height restrictions for the new buildings, traffic/parking, density (impact on already crowded schools) and requirements for public space in the plan.

We moved here 5 years ago and while there are some nice aspects of downtown McLean, it is clearly in need of substantial revitalization. We can walk downtown and I for one would welcome many changes. It feels like the old (and well funded) guard, and I mean that literally as the majority we hear/see complaining are 70+, are doing what they can to control the terms of McLean's business development. The whole "McLean small not Tyson's Tall" brigade... While I agree with some of their arguments, it feels like they are just too much overall and discouraging potential developers from stepping into the mix. Its a generalization, but many of the older residents seem to like that its a small and sleepy downtown... which I might be ok with if it was at least modernized. The run down strip malls and vacant storefronts like the old burger joint next to the butchers, are just ugly and don't attract new and interesting businesses/restaurants.

FWIW, we briefly lived in FCC years ago and there were similar issues there... but they eventually worked through them. Just my opinion as a ~45 yo living within walking distance to downtown that is hopeful that there are some improvements in the next decade.


Bethesdan here who happened to be in McLean today. It strikes me as very car-centric, not very walkable.

Frankly, I’m surprised the older residents were listened to. People from Bethesda and Chevy Chase protested the redevelopment of Bethesda, but the County Council could care less.


That sounds more like a criticism of local government in Montgomery County than a criticism of McLean.

Fairfax County amended the zoning for McLean this year to allow greater density. It’s really up to the big property owners to decide whether and when they think redevelopment in the central area would be economically viable. They would be competing with new developments in Tysons/McLean already under development.

In the meanwhile the central area has all the basic amenities and you can get around without dealing with as much congestion as in many nearby areas.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 08:26     Subject: Re:Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
There’s basically one developer that owns downtown McLean and until the County creates a plan that developer likes, nothing is going to happen. I don’t think it’s a matter of the County listening to old residents. Haggling over building heights in the plan may ultimately be moot when who knows what aspects of the plan the developer sees as dealbreakers. It could be any number of things and is a total mystery.

I’d love mixed use development there but I’m guessing the only thing that would be profitable is luxury apartments since that’s all that developers want to put anywhere. Density doesn’t bother me if here are actual amenities that come with it like parks/playgrounds, shops, and restaurants. But if it’s just cramming a bunch of people into tall buildings, ugh.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 08:00     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If it were redeveloped, there would be lots of mixed use. Which means apartments where poor people might live. And the poor people would send their kids to the local schools. The rich wealthy people do not want this.


Yup.


McLean is full of apartments and condos with low income kids who are already in the schools. The only difference is that most of the low income kids are mostly Asians because the elementary schools feed into Longfellow Middle School which at one time had a good admission rate to TJ. Not sure how popular those buildings will be now that TJ has skewed its admittance policies. But kids can still go to McLean or Langley which are both good schools.


McLean downtown has one? Apartment building and it is filled with retirees.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 07:53     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:McLean is notable not for being wealthier than other wealthy enclaves in the DC area, but for having very few middle class or lower families.

There are many many wealthy families and neighborhoods in NWDC, Bethesda, Old Town Alexandria, etc, but those areas are much more diverse than McLean. McLean is where you go if you have the money AND don’t want to share a zip code with anyone who is not similarly well off.


McLean is also where boomers went because they want bigger yards, bigger houses and they want to be able to drive everywhere and park easily. None of these old folks care about being "walking distance" to downtown. That is not why anybody moved to McLean (ever).
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 07:02     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
McLean is notable not for being wealthier than other wealthy enclaves in the DC area, but for having very few middle class or lower families.

There are many many wealthy families and neighborhoods in NWDC, Bethesda, Old Town Alexandria, etc, but those areas are much more diverse than McLean. McLean is where you go if you have the money AND don’t want to share a zip code with anyone who is not similarly well off.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 01:19     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry noob question here as I just moved. Isn’t Mclean supposed to be an ultra wealthy area?


They've been trying to redevelop downtown McLean for a couple of decades but the surrounding homeowners associations/residents have been aggressive about petitioning for limitations. Primarily around height restrictions for the new buildings, traffic/parking, density (impact on already crowded schools) and requirements for public space in the plan.

We moved here 5 years ago and while there are some nice aspects of downtown McLean, it is clearly in need of substantial revitalization. We can walk downtown and I for one would welcome many changes. It feels like the old (and well funded) guard, and I mean that literally as the majority we hear/see complaining are 70+, are doing what they can to control the terms of McLean's business development. The whole "McLean small not Tyson's Tall" brigade... While I agree with some of their arguments, it feels like they are just too much overall and discouraging potential developers from stepping into the mix. Its a generalization, but many of the older residents seem to like that its a small and sleepy downtown... which I might be ok with if it was at least modernized. The run down strip malls and vacant storefronts like the old burger joint next to the butchers, are just ugly and don't attract new and interesting businesses/restaurants.

FWIW, we briefly lived in FCC years ago and there were similar issues there... but they eventually worked through them. Just my opinion as a ~45 yo living within walking distance to downtown that is hopeful that there are some improvements in the next decade.


FCC is a terror now. It's gotten even uglier since being redeveloped in the last 15 years or so. Back then it was somewhat cute, in parts, but now ... yikes. The old Joe's Organic Burger is an eyesore, I'll give you that.
Anonymous
Post 12/23/2021 01:01     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry noob question here as I just moved. Isn’t Mclean supposed to be an ultra wealthy area?


They've been trying to redevelop downtown McLean for a couple of decades but the surrounding homeowners associations/residents have been aggressive about petitioning for limitations. Primarily around height restrictions for the new buildings, traffic/parking, density (impact on already crowded schools) and requirements for public space in the plan.

We moved here 5 years ago and while there are some nice aspects of downtown McLean, it is clearly in need of substantial revitalization. We can walk downtown and I for one would welcome many changes. It feels like the old (and well funded) guard, and I mean that literally as the majority we hear/see complaining are 70+, are doing what they can to control the terms of McLean's business development. The whole "McLean small not Tyson's Tall" brigade... While I agree with some of their arguments, it feels like they are just too much overall and discouraging potential developers from stepping into the mix. Its a generalization, but many of the older residents seem to like that its a small and sleepy downtown... which I might be ok with if it was at least modernized. The run down strip malls and vacant storefronts like the old burger joint next to the butchers, are just ugly and don't attract new and interesting businesses/restaurants.

FWIW, we briefly lived in FCC years ago and there were similar issues there... but they eventually worked through them. Just my opinion as a ~45 yo living within walking distance to downtown that is hopeful that there are some improvements in the next decade.


Bethesdan here who happened to be in McLean today. It strikes me as very car-centric, not very walkable.

Frankly, I’m surprised the older residents were listened to. People from Bethesda and Chevy Chase protested the redevelopment of Bethesda, but the County Council could care less.
Anonymous
Post 12/22/2021 22:26     Subject: Why downtown Mclean is such a drab?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If it were redeveloped, there would be lots of mixed use. Which means apartments where poor people might live. And the poor people would send their kids to the local schools. The rich wealthy people do not want this.


Yup.


The rich wealthy people do not send their kids to the local publics. They send their kids to Potomac, Sidwell, St. Albans, Georgetown Prep, etc.

The UMC people in McLean know that all the multi-family housing units in Tysons already go to Marshall HS and McLean HS; that any further multi-family housing in central McLean would go to McLean HS; and that the current School Board member has made sure none of it goes to Langley HS. And they also know that they current School Board isn't doing anything to expand McLean HS, which currently has 2361 kids in a building with fewer than 2000 permanent seats.

On the other hand, FCPS now has plans to expand Falls Church HS, which currently has an enrollment of under 2000 students, to 2500 seats. So, if there were more apartments and condos in central McLean, what would likely happen is that kids in less expensive apartments off Lee Highway in Merrifield would get bumped from McLean HS to Falls Church HS, and McLean HS would pick up kids from the more expensive new condos and apartments instead (along with a small number of affordable housing unit set-asides).

So it would actually play out rather differently than you suggest.


A cursory glance at the Langley High School parking lot would tell a different story. But thanks for playing.


Always possible that what counts as rich and wealthy in McLean and what strikes you as wealthy looking at a parking lot are different things. Most of the serioudly wealthy in McLean send their kids to privates.

But either way people at Langley aren’t worried about who might live in future mixed-use developments in central McLean, because they already know those kids would go to McLean, not Langley.