Anonymous wrote:I'm worried that it is not, in fact, milder than "regular" covid/delta. People jumped on that as a beacon of hope but the data is not there to support this yet. I'm also concerned that I have read that children may be more likely to get omicron. Yes, they are more likely to be okay, but having had a little one who was very sick last week with just a "regular" cold, and who lost weight, stopped eating, etc., it's worrisome.

See, e.g.:

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/584223-top-south-african-expert-says-omicron-is-surging-among-children

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/96078

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/17/no-evidence-that-covid-omicron-variant-less-severe-than-delta-uk-study.html

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Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why more parents of young children aren't up-in-arms over the ridiculous quarantine policies that daycares and preK programs have. One of the most vulnerable groups to disruptions, while being one of the lowest risk groups from COVID, has been forced to deal with the most restrictive policies. This is absurd. And with the failure of the vaccine trial, there's no end in sight without forcing a political change to state/county policies.

You don't understand the need to stop a highly contagious virus. This is why covid is peaking again.

I'm not saying don't do mitigation measures. But choose ones that work while limiting the collateral damage.

Take quarantine policies as a simple example. Some places are still requiring 14-day quarantines, while others have at least dropped that to 10 days. But why aren't we more broadly allowing the same shortened quarantine policies that have been available to school-aged kids? Particularly returning with a negative PCR taken 5 days after an exposure. And why aren't more parents pushing for a test-to-stay option?

Masks are another issue. I'm not strictly opposed to a mask mandate continuing through the Omicron wave, but do you realize the US is the odd one out on masks for kids 5 and under? The WHO explicitly recommends against mask mandates for kids 5 and under. The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control doesn't recommend masks on kids until they're in secondary schools. Young kids very, very often aren't consistently wearing well-fitting masks. Plus they're regularly taking them off throughout the day. Masks in preK/childcare aren't doing much.

The CDC endorsed this one day ago, so... I think we'll get there eventually.

And honestly, the main reason I haven't been worried about quarantine requirements is that we have had ZERO covid exposures the entire time my kid has been in daycare, and just one in a different room. So yes, the class might close for 10 days instead of letting kids return after 5 days with negative PCRs, but it is just an abstract concept at this point. If it were regularly happening, I'd feel more pressure to "fix" it.

Masks, I would guess that at least half the parents still want their kids masked. I'm not one of them, and think it is dumb (especially outside!), but I'm not concerned enough to be an anti-mask advocate. My kid is developing completely fine and does not mind her mask. If this is still going on next fall, I'll maybe reconsider. We also should have a crisper view of the data on masking.

DP well as long as your child is ok, we're good right

Well, I'm good.....Am I supposed to talk to your daycare about their policies? OR am I supposed to call the CDC? Seriously, what do you want me to do?

Maybe don't ramble on for two paragraphs about how you got yours

There should be discrepancies between daycare policies if they're certified by the state because the regulated by the state and the State health department so there should be no differences within daycare policies

Maryland doesn't have masking/testing/quarantine requirements for preschools and child care facilities. Local orders and the local health departments determine those.

That's interesting because our preschool sent us direct link from MDOH which is what they follow

Yes, MDH/MSDE has guidelines, but they're specifically not requirements. Did you read the document? I did, and I talked to the head of Early Childhood Development in MSDE about them.

And they said the guidelines aren't mandatory? It's just suggestive?

To quote Steven Hicks, "This is guidance. Child care programs and schools should follow the directive of their local health department."

Further, the MDH/MSDE document itself says:
"By law, each local school system, nonpublic school, and child care program may set their own policies and procedures for their schools, students/children, teachers, and staff. However, MDH and MSDE strongly recommend that these entities work with local health departments to implement the layered prevention strategies needed to protect students/children, teachers, and staff in their setting and adopt policies consistent with the recommendations in this guidance."

It is not a directive. They are enforcing it with orders from the governor if need be to close down childcare facilities that don’t listen to them.

No, they're not. I quoted the person that heads the division responsible for regulating child care and preschool in Maryland. These aren't requirements, and weren't intended to be. But I understand that many providers and counties view them as requirements. That disconnect is a problem.

Right- the CDC recommends as well. Our center specifically cites the state and CDC guidance as the reason they require masks. I think it’s hard because there is clearly a segment of parents who do want masks, so I don’t really blame directors for going with what is recommended. The guidance needs to change at the top.

Dr. Gayles insisted on masking for every over 2 from the beginning and now that is the expectation. A parent or child care provider that pushes back against it risks alienating people who think masks for little kids are saving everyone from Covid. It really does have to come from the top and it needs to explicitly recommend against masking children under 6 as the WHO does.

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Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why more parents of young children aren't up-in-arms over the ridiculous quarantine policies that daycares and preK programs have. One of the most vulnerable groups to disruptions, while being one of the lowest risk groups from COVID, has been forced to deal with the most restrictive policies. This is absurd. And with the failure of the vaccine trial, there's no end in sight without forcing a political change to state/county policies.

You don't understand the need to stop a highly contagious virus. This is why covid is peaking again.

I'm not saying don't do mitigation measures. But choose ones that work while limiting the collateral damage.

Take quarantine policies as a simple example. Some places are still requiring 14-day quarantines, while others have at least dropped that to 10 days. But why aren't we more broadly allowing the same shortened quarantine policies that have been available to school-aged kids? Particularly returning with a negative PCR taken 5 days after an exposure. And why aren't more parents pushing for a test-to-stay option?

Masks are another issue. I'm not strictly opposed to a mask mandate continuing through the Omicron wave, but do you realize the US is the odd one out on masks for kids 5 and under? The WHO explicitly recommends against mask mandates for kids 5 and under. The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control doesn't recommend masks on kids until they're in secondary schools. Young kids very, very often aren't consistently wearing well-fitting masks. Plus they're regularly taking them off throughout the day. Masks in preK/childcare aren't doing much.

The CDC endorsed this one day ago, so... I think we'll get there eventually.

And honestly, the main reason I haven't been worried about quarantine requirements is that we have had ZERO covid exposures the entire time my kid has been in daycare, and just one in a different room. So yes, the class might close for 10 days instead of letting kids return after 5 days with negative PCRs, but it is just an abstract concept at this point. If it were regularly happening, I'd feel more pressure to "fix" it.

Masks, I would guess that at least half the parents still want their kids masked. I'm not one of them, and think it is dumb (especially outside!), but I'm not concerned enough to be an anti-mask advocate. My kid is developing completely fine and does not mind her mask. If this is still going on next fall, I'll maybe reconsider. We also should have a crisper view of the data on masking.

DP well as long as your child is ok, we're good right

Well, I'm good.....Am I supposed to talk to your daycare about their policies? OR am I supposed to call the CDC? Seriously, what do you want me to do?

Maybe don't ramble on for two paragraphs about how you got yours

There should be discrepancies between daycare policies if they're certified by the state because the regulated by the state and the State health department so there should be no differences within daycare policies

Maryland doesn't have masking/testing/quarantine requirements for preschools and child care facilities. Local orders and the local health departments determine those.

That's interesting because our preschool sent us direct link from MDOH which is what they follow

Yes, MDH/MSDE has guidelines, but they're specifically not requirements. Did you read the document? I did, and I talked to the head of Early Childhood Development in MSDE about them.

And they said the guidelines aren't mandatory? It's just suggestive?

To quote Steven Hicks, "This is guidance. Child care programs and schools should follow the directive of their local health department."

Further, the MDH/MSDE document itself says:
"By law, each local school system, nonpublic school, and child care program may set their own policies and procedures for their schools, students/children, teachers, and staff. However, MDH and MSDE strongly recommend that these entities work with local health departments to implement the layered prevention strategies needed to protect students/children, teachers, and staff in their setting and adopt policies consistent with the recommendations in this guidance."

It is not a directive. They are enforcing it with orders from the governor if need be to close down childcare facilities that don’t listen to them.

No, they're not. I quoted the person that heads the division responsible for regulating child care and preschool in Maryland. These aren't requirements, and weren't intended to be. But I understand that many providers and counties view them as requirements. That disconnect is a problem.

Right- the CDC recommends as well. Our center specifically cites the state and CDC guidance as the reason they require masks. I think it’s hard because there is clearly a segment of parents who do want masks, so I don’t really blame directors for going with what is recommended. The guidance needs to change at the top.

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Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why more parents of young children aren't up-in-arms over the ridiculous quarantine policies that daycares and preK programs have. One of the most vulnerable groups to disruptions, while being one of the lowest risk groups from COVID, has been forced to deal with the most restrictive policies. This is absurd. And with the failure of the vaccine trial, there's no end in sight without forcing a political change to state/county policies.

You don't understand the need to stop a highly contagious virus. This is why covid is peaking again.

I'm not saying don't do mitigation measures. But choose ones that work while limiting the collateral damage.

Take quarantine policies as a simple example. Some places are still requiring 14-day quarantines, while others have at least dropped that to 10 days. But why aren't we more broadly allowing the same shortened quarantine policies that have been available to school-aged kids? Particularly returning with a negative PCR taken 5 days after an exposure. And why aren't more parents pushing for a test-to-stay option?

Masks are another issue. I'm not strictly opposed to a mask mandate continuing through the Omicron wave, but do you realize the US is the odd one out on masks for kids 5 and under? The WHO explicitly recommends against mask mandates for kids 5 and under. The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control doesn't recommend masks on kids until they're in secondary schools. Young kids very, very often aren't consistently wearing well-fitting masks. Plus they're regularly taking them off throughout the day. Masks in preK/childcare aren't doing much.

The CDC endorsed this one day ago, so... I think we'll get there eventually.

And honestly, the main reason I haven't been worried about quarantine requirements is that we have had ZERO covid exposures the entire time my kid has been in daycare, and just one in a different room. So yes, the class might close for 10 days instead of letting kids return after 5 days with negative PCRs, but it is just an abstract concept at this point. If it were regularly happening, I'd feel more pressure to "fix" it.

Masks, I would guess that at least half the parents still want their kids masked. I'm not one of them, and think it is dumb (especially outside!), but I'm not concerned enough to be an anti-mask advocate. My kid is developing completely fine and does not mind her mask. If this is still going on next fall, I'll maybe reconsider. We also should have a crisper view of the data on masking.

DP well as long as your child is ok, we're good right

Well, I'm good.....Am I supposed to talk to your daycare about their policies? OR am I supposed to call the CDC? Seriously, what do you want me to do?

Maybe don't ramble on for two paragraphs about how you got yours

There should be discrepancies between daycare policies if they're certified by the state because the regulated by the state and the State health department so there should be no differences within daycare policies

Maryland doesn't have masking/testing/quarantine requirements for preschools and child care facilities. Local orders and the local health departments determine those.

That's interesting because our preschool sent us direct link from MDOH which is what they follow

Yes, MDH/MSDE has guidelines, but they're specifically not requirements. Did you read the document? I did, and I talked to the head of Early Childhood Development in MSDE about them.

And they said the guidelines aren't mandatory? It's just suggestive?

To quote Steven Hicks, "This is guidance. Child care programs and schools should follow the directive of their local health department."

Further, the MDH/MSDE document itself says:
"By law, each local school system, nonpublic school, and child care program may set their own policies and procedures for their schools, students/children, teachers, and staff. However, MDH and MSDE strongly recommend that these entities work with local health departments to implement the layered prevention strategies needed to protect students/children, teachers, and staff in their setting and adopt policies consistent with the recommendations in this guidance."

It is not a directive. They are enforcing it with orders from the governor if need be to close down childcare facilities that don’t listen to them.

No, they're not. I quoted the person that heads the division responsible for regulating child care and preschool in Maryland. These aren't requirements, and weren't intended to be. But I understand that many providers and counties view them as requirements. That disconnect is a problem.

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Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why more parents of young children aren't up-in-arms over the ridiculous quarantine policies that daycares and preK programs have. One of the most vulnerable groups to disruptions, while being one of the lowest risk groups from COVID, has been forced to deal with the most restrictive policies. This is absurd. And with the failure of the vaccine trial, there's no end in sight without forcing a political change to state/county policies.

You don't understand the need to stop a highly contagious virus. This is why covid is peaking again.

I'm not saying don't do mitigation measures. But choose ones that work while limiting the collateral damage.

Take quarantine policies as a simple example. Some places are still requiring 14-day quarantines, while others have at least dropped that to 10 days. But why aren't we more broadly allowing the same shortened quarantine policies that have been available to school-aged kids? Particularly returning with a negative PCR taken 5 days after an exposure. And why aren't more parents pushing for a test-to-stay option?

Masks are another issue. I'm not strictly opposed to a mask mandate continuing through the Omicron wave, but do you realize the US is the odd one out on masks for kids 5 and under? The WHO explicitly recommends against mask mandates for kids 5 and under. The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control doesn't recommend masks on kids until they're in secondary schools. Young kids very, very often aren't consistently wearing well-fitting masks. Plus they're regularly taking them off throughout the day. Masks in preK/childcare aren't doing much.

The CDC endorsed this one day ago, so... I think we'll get there eventually.

And honestly, the main reason I haven't been worried about quarantine requirements is that we have had ZERO covid exposures the entire time my kid has been in daycare, and just one in a different room. So yes, the class might close for 10 days instead of letting kids return after 5 days with negative PCRs, but it is just an abstract concept at this point. If it were regularly happening, I'd feel more pressure to "fix" it.

Masks, I would guess that at least half the parents still want their kids masked. I'm not one of them, and think it is dumb (especially outside!), but I'm not concerned enough to be an anti-mask advocate. My kid is developing completely fine and does not mind her mask. If this is still going on next fall, I'll maybe reconsider. We also should have a crisper view of the data on masking.

Anonymous wrote:All the adults in my family are vaxed and boosted. The children too young to be vaxed are also at the least risk from Covid. At this point I’m honestly more scared of constant childcare disruptions than I am of actually getting sick.

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. Hasn’t this convo gone off the rails?
Frankly, omicron scares me. If it doesn’t scare you, perhaps you aren’t reading the news.

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Anonymous wrote:All the adults in my family are vaxed and boosted. The children too young to be vaxed are also at the least risk from Covid. At this point I’m honestly more scared of constant childcare disruptions than I am of actually getting sick.

And are you doing anything about that? I can't even get state and local leaders to comment on preschool or child care. They're pretending it doesn't exist, or at least that there's no problem. I suspect they thought they could avoid the issue entirely until the vaccine solved the quarantine problem. But now we can't even count on that.

What do you mean when you say you can't get local and state leaders to comment on it? I mean I literally haven't seen anything other than articles and like vox about this issue and I'm real tired about hearing about vaccinations. There's plenty of opportunity for those that want to get vaccinated to be vaccinated. I don't want any more of my tax dollars going towards it.

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Anonymous wrote:All the adults in my family are vaxed and boosted. The children too young to be vaxed are also at the least risk from Covid. At this point I’m honestly more scared of constant childcare disruptions than I am of actually getting sick.

And are you doing anything about that? I can't even get state and local leaders to comment on preschool or child care. They're pretending it doesn't exist, or at least that there's no problem. I suspect they thought they could avoid the issue entirely until the vaccine solved the quarantine problem. But now we can't even count on that.

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Anonymous wrote:This is OP. Hasn’t this convo gone off the rails?
Frankly, omicron scares me. If it doesn’t scare you, perhaps you aren’t reading the news.

I have been reading the news. What’s your fear of omicron about? I understand it seems to spread more easily but it’s mild, especially for vaccinated people. We have tools to address this now that we didn’t have for prior waves. What is your fear?

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. Hasn’t this convo gone off the rails?
Frankly, omicron scares me. If it doesn’t scare you, perhaps you aren’t reading the news.