Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why all the rushing and pushing? Looking back, as an MD for the past almost 20 years, I am really glad I took time between college and med school to explore other interests, do other things. There is so much burnout in medicine that I am concerned about these young ones putting so much pressure on themselves in high school to get into X college to get into Y med school to get Z residency. Med school and residency were by far the most diverse educational experiences I had with students and residents from a really wide array of education, paths, geographic and ethnic backgrounds. Those who had taken a little time in between had more maturity and perspective and resilience to handle the intensity of med school and residency.

Tons of reasons. Not everyone has the luxury financially of taking time off. Some women may want to finish up residency while they’re still in child bearing age. Heck, my husband was 33 when he finished and became staff with a family to support and he didn’t take any time off.

The Brown program in some ways protects against burnout. There are a few minimal premed requirements, but undergrads are not required to prepare for the MCAT, pursue research/shadowing, or be a STEM major. All of these choices, if made, are purely student driven. Additionally, many PLME students take a gap year between undergrad and med school to decompress or volunteer during which their spot is saved for them.

Regarding admissions, I would like to emphasize that BS MD programs would like to see shadowing hours. I have research experience (2 publications) and strong extracurriculars. These got me into Yale/Brown. I was not accepted into any BS MD programs (including PLME). I am a singular data point, but I do believe my lack of shadow experience due to Covid was a major factor.

I was lucky enough to be admitted to an ivy with the plans of pursuing an MD-PhD. There is a strong premed cohort on campus and a Dean to advise us, but there are a great number of expectations for grades/classwork/volunteering/shadowing/researching in preparation for applying for med school. If one is not careful, college can become a four year bootcamp for med school applications like high school was in some ways geared towards college applications. I do believe admission to a BSMD program may have made the process less stressful. That said, I am quite grateful for the support and opportunities I have today.

Anonymous wrote:Why all the rushing and pushing? Looking back, as an MD for the past almost 20 years, I am really glad I took time between college and med school to explore other interests, do other things. There is so much burnout in medicine that I am concerned about these young ones putting so much pressure on themselves in high school to get into X college to get into Y med school to get Z residency. Med school and residency were by far the most diverse educational experiences I had with students and residents from a really wide array of education, paths, geographic and ethnic backgrounds. Those who had taken a little time in between had more maturity and perspective and resilience to handle the intensity of med school and residency.

Tons of reasons. Not everyone has the luxury financially of taking time off. Some women may want to finish up residency while they’re still in child bearing age. Heck, my husband was 33 when he finished and became staff with a family to support and he didn’t take any time off.

Anonymous wrote:Other than Brown PLME, Northwestern HPME that does not exisy, VCU, and a program in Boston, are the other BS/ MD programs equally good? For my DD who is a junior and doing a few ECA's similar to what was described by other OP's, she would like to try for such a program. I am not sure if she is stellar to get into the very top programs. She is from an MCPS school (not magnet IB etc.) but taking rigorous courses with straight A's, GPA 4.0 UW, taken AP's with 4 and 5's, will take more this year. She is also doing shadowing with a physician since freshman year over the weekends, collects donations for gifts to pediatric cancer patients and in the Tacy program singing at hospitals. She does not have any national or international awards. She is applying for a research internship this summer. What are her chances? Which are the lower tier schools in the 7 year/ 8 year program that she could look into. I understand that all these combined programs are extremely competitive.

University of Connecticut has one.

Anonymous wrote:Other than Brown PLME, Northwestern HPME that does not exisy, VCU, and a program in Boston, are the other BS/ MD programs equally good? For my DD who is a junior and doing a few ECA's similar to what was described by other OP's, she would like to try for such a program. I am not sure if she is stellar to get into the very top programs. She is from an MCPS school (not magnet IB etc.) but taking rigorous courses with straight A's, GPA 4.0 UW, taken AP's with 4 and 5's, will take more this year. She is also doing shadowing with a physician since freshman year over the weekends, collects donations for gifts to pediatric cancer patients and in the Tacy program singing at hospitals. She does not have any national or international awards. She is applying for a research internship this summer. What are her chances? Which are the lower tier schools in the 7 year/ 8 year program that she could look into. I understand that all these combined programs are extremely competitive.

University of Miami has one too.

Other than Brown PLME, Northwestern HPME that does not exisy, VCU, and a program in Boston, are the other BS/ MD programs equally good? For my DD who is a junior and doing a few ECA's similar to what was described by other OP's, she would like to try for such a program. I am not sure if she is stellar to get into the very top programs. She is from an MCPS school (not magnet IB etc.) but taking rigorous courses with straight A's, GPA 4.0 UW, taken AP's with 4 and 5's, will take more this year. She is also doing shadowing with a physician since freshman year over the weekends, collects donations for gifts to pediatric cancer patients and in the Tacy program singing at hospitals. She does not have any national or international awards. She is applying for a research internship this summer. What are her chances? Which are the lower tier schools in the 7 year/ 8 year program that she could look into. I understand that all these combined programs are extremely competitive.

The joint programs/guaranteed admit/combo programs admitting out of HS at most of the "top"* schools are going away or have faded away.*** Both Northwestern and WashU ended their programs in the last few years. Case Western's 8-year conditional admit program comes with oodles of stipulations AND still requires application, interview, and does not conditionally admit into the Cleveland Clinic "med school within the med school" research program. Tufts has a program, but it's limited to Tufts sophomores for entry and requires a 3.7 in the pre-med courses to apply (Northwestern also offers this approach now). Pitt still has the 4+4, but requires a 3.75 in pre-med requirements @ Pitt to stay eligible. Texas has its own program, but it's only for Texans. Besides Brown, Rochester (4+4) and BU (3+4, very specific required curriculum sequencing) are probably the other programs of note. Brown gives kids more flexibility and has fewer requirements, so it's the leader in my book.

The program that I personally think is the best (note that my definition of best and yours are probably different) "early assurance" type program is the Mt. Sinai FlexMed pathway that is open to college sophomores. You don't have to be a science major to become a doctor, folks! In fact, it's probably better if you aren't! Humanities majors actually have a higher admission rate to med school than science majors (https://www.aamc.org/media/6061/download).

***You should ask medical school admissions deans what they think about picking out future physicians from groups of 17-year-olds. "The teenagers who are hellbent on becoming doctors, and are doing everything possible on some checklist to become one, aren't always the people you want as physicians."

Anonymous wrote:Why all the rushing and pushing? Looking back, as an MD for the past almost 20 years, I am really glad I took time between college and med school to explore other interests, do other things. There is so much burnout in medicine that I am concerned about these young ones putting so much pressure on themselves in high school to get into X college to get into Y med school to get Z residency. Med school and residency were by far the most diverse educational experiences I had with students and residents from a really wide array of education, paths, geographic and ethnic backgrounds. Those who had taken a little time in between had more maturity and perspective and resilience to handle the intensity of med school and residency.

It's significantly harder to get into med school now, so the guaranteed programs are very popular. I'm European and it's getting insanely competitive there too - it's a global trend. Some programs have admission rates in the 1.3 % - 1.6% range now.