Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We still have plenty of immigrants who are having kids.

Actually, this isn't true. Immigration over the past four years has dwindled dramatically. If anything, the labor "crisis" employers are facing is due to not having immigrants flowing into the work force combined with a large swatch of working class people who died of COVID.

I have NO IDEA why people don't realize this or admit it. But it's evidence. Numbers don't lie.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think about, purely from a financial perspective, I am doing way, way worse than my friends who did not have kids (chosen not to or just couldn't because of biology, relationships, circumstances, etc).

It is an interesting thing to see right now since I'm in the thick of it, but US society doesn't encourage having children. If anything, there are economic disincentives built into the economy. No paid leave after having a child, an expensive childcare framework that is regulated to high hell by the government (for safety reasons, is unquestionably a good thing) with no financial support of the government (which people endless dispute as to whether it is shitty or not). Tax benefits are minimal. College savings programs aren't deductible federally and student loan interest is subject to income limits that drive people out of being able to take the deductions. Factor in the caps on SALT deductions (local property taxes pay for schools and surprise, the federal government DOESN'T want to encourage this I guess) and well...here we are.

This. We have policies that do not encourage having children. And we tell people that no one else should have to pay for their kids, and if you want kids, it's an individual lifestyle choice and you shouldn't expect anyone to help you. So, now that there is less social pressure to have kids (especially on women), I don't know why we'd be surprised that a lot of people aren't planning to have kids. We've basically said that having kids is only for rich people with a lot of support -- so people who aren't that are saying, "Okay."

I have well off friends in Canada who got paid for either six or 12 months of staying home after they had their kids (can't remember which). They went on some big trip during that time. It made having kids look so much more appealing than what I see here in the US - a measly few weeks of leave, all that time spent messy and depressed with no help unless you get super lucky and are rich enough for a nanny or have involved grandparents. Then there's daycare, endless sports, impossible to pay for college, etc.

I am 48 and chose not to have kids. I couldn't fathom how I'd ever ever ever realistically make it work. If I'd really wanted them I could have - my sibling has two, and we're similar enough that at least I have that model to go on - but it just seems to effing hard.

I’m Canadian, living in Toronto. The key words in your comment are “well off”. Yes, overall our policies are better, but having children is still very difficult for those who aren’t wealthy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think about, purely from a financial perspective, I am doing way, way worse than my friends who did not have kids (chosen not to or just couldn't because of biology, relationships, circumstances, etc).

It is an interesting thing to see right now since I'm in the thick of it, but US society doesn't encourage having children. If anything, there are economic disincentives built into the economy. No paid leave after having a child, an expensive childcare framework that is regulated to high hell by the government (for safety reasons, is unquestionably a good thing) with no financial support of the government (which people endless dispute as to whether it is shitty or not). Tax benefits are minimal. College savings programs aren't deductible federally and student loan interest is subject to income limits that drive people out of being able to take the deductions. Factor in the caps on SALT deductions (local property taxes pay for schools and surprise, the federal government DOESN'T want to encourage this I guess) and well...here we are.

This. We have policies that do not encourage having children. And we tell people that no one else should have to pay for their kids, and if you want kids, it's an individual lifestyle choice and you shouldn't expect anyone to help you. So, now that there is less social pressure to have kids (especially on women), I don't know why we'd be surprised that a lot of people aren't planning to have kids. We've basically said that having kids is only for rich people with a lot of support -- so people who aren't that are saying, "Okay."

I have well off friends in Canada who got paid for either six or 12 months of staying home after they had their kids (can't remember which). They went on some big trip during that time. It made having kids look so much more appealing than what I see here in the US - a measly few weeks of leave, all that time spent messy and depressed with no help unless you get super lucky and are rich enough for a nanny or have involved grandparents. Then there's daycare, endless sports, impossible to pay for college, etc.

I am 48 and chose not to have kids. I couldn't fathom how I'd ever ever ever realistically make it work. If I'd really wanted them I could have - my sibling has two, and we're similar enough that at least I have that model to go on - but it just seems to effing hard.

I’m Canadian, living in Toronto. The key words in your comment are “well off”. Yes, overall our policies are better, but having children is still very difficult for those who aren’t wealthy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think about, purely from a financial perspective, I am doing way, way worse than my friends who did not have kids (chosen not to or just couldn't because of biology, relationships, circumstances, etc).

It is an interesting thing to see right now since I'm in the thick of it, but US society doesn't encourage having children. If anything, there are economic disincentives built into the economy. No paid leave after having a child, an expensive childcare framework that is regulated to high hell by the government (for safety reasons, is unquestionably a good thing) with no financial support of the government (which people endless dispute as to whether it is shitty or not). Tax benefits are minimal. College savings programs aren't deductible federally and student loan interest is subject to income limits that drive people out of being able to take the deductions. Factor in the caps on SALT deductions (local property taxes pay for schools and surprise, the federal government DOESN'T want to encourage this I guess) and well...here we are.

This. We have policies that do not encourage having children. And we tell people that no one else should have to pay for their kids, and if you want kids, it's an individual lifestyle choice and you shouldn't expect anyone to help you. So, now that there is less social pressure to have kids (especially on women), I don't know why we'd be surprised that a lot of people aren't planning to have kids. We've basically said that having kids is only for rich people with a lot of support -- so people who aren't that are saying, "Okay."

I have well off friends in Canada who got paid for either six or 12 months of staying home after they had their kids (can't remember which). They went on some big trip during that time. It made having kids look so much more appealing than what I see here in the US - a measly few weeks of leave, all that time spent messy and depressed with no help unless you get super lucky and are rich enough for a nanny or have involved grandparents. Then there's daycare, endless sports, impossible to pay for college, etc.

I am 48 and chose not to have kids. I couldn't fathom how I'd ever ever ever realistically make it work. If I'd really wanted them I could have - my sibling has two, and we're similar enough that at least I have that model to go on - but it just seems to effing hard.

Anonymous wrote:Who is going to buy all this real estate that is the main investment for most families? Declining population is not helpful to a healthy real estate market.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think about, purely from a financial perspective, I am doing way, way worse than my friends who did not have kids (chosen not to or just couldn't because of biology, relationships, circumstances, etc).

It is an interesting thing to see right now since I'm in the thick of it, but US society doesn't encourage having children. If anything, there are economic disincentives built into the economy. No paid leave after having a child, an expensive childcare framework that is regulated to high hell by the government (for safety reasons, is unquestionably a good thing) with no financial support of the government (which people endless dispute as to whether it is shitty or not). Tax benefits are minimal. College savings programs aren't deductible federally and student loan interest is subject to income limits that drive people out of being able to take the deductions. Factor in the caps on SALT deductions (local property taxes pay for schools and surprise, the federal government DOESN'T want to encourage this I guess) and well...here we are.

This. We have policies that do not encourage having children. And we tell people that no one else should have to pay for their kids, and if you want kids, it's an individual lifestyle choice and you shouldn't expect anyone to help you. So, now that there is less social pressure to have kids (especially on women), I don't know why we'd be surprised that a lot of people aren't planning to have kids. We've basically said that having kids is only for rich people with a lot of support -- so people who aren't that are saying, "Okay."

Anonymous wrote:And yet my OB practice is busier than ever… can’t even get regular appointments with my regular doctor.

Anonymous wrote:If you think about, purely from a financial perspective, I am doing way, way worse than my friends who did not have kids (chosen not to or just couldn't because of biology, relationships, circumstances, etc).

It is an interesting thing to see right now since I'm in the thick of it, but US society doesn't encourage having children. If anything, there are economic disincentives built into the economy. No paid leave after having a child, an expensive childcare framework that is regulated to high hell by the government (for safety reasons, is unquestionably a good thing) with no financial support of the government (which people endless dispute as to whether it is shitty or not). Tax benefits are minimal. College savings programs aren't deductible federally and student loan interest is subject to income limits that drive people out of being able to take the deductions. Factor in the caps on SALT deductions (local property taxes pay for schools and surprise, the federal government DOESN'T want to encourage this I guess) and well...here we are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted children. But a larger and larger number of us can't afford either IVF or adoption and to make a good like for the child once they are here.

So when I couldn't get pregnant naturally, I have up entirely. Had I lived in an area where it was easier to adopt from foster care, I might have done that.

I can certainly see where, in a time if limiting reproductive rights, more younger people would chose to get sterilized or have a vasectomy at an earlier and earlier age. That way, no unhappy surprises they can't afford to pay for.

Ivf could be next on the chopping block with abortion. They are flip sides of the same coin.

And then there will be fewer children.

My parents (white, hundreds of years in the US, because someone always says I am a recent immigrant) discouraged me from dating and only encouraged academics. By the time I moved several states away from them and married, apparently it was already too late.

Conservatives will end up with almost no population growth of non-immigrants if they keep this up. Between limiting control of reproduction, sky high public college tuitions and loans, high housing costs, no support for parents or new moms and dads, "pro life" essentially ending IVF, all the chemicals they want to continue releasing into the air and water, and pro business policies that hurt workers...means that more and more Americans won't be having kids, unless they are recent immigrants who are used to a lower standard of living.