Anonymous wrote:Sorry not much sympathy. I was just pregnant. There were so many resources if you were a smoker, drug addict or alcoholic to get you sober. There were hotlines to call and lots of free resources. This baby shouldn’t have had to suffer. I’m very pro choice and she should have had an abortion.

I'm sorry but she should not be arrested, sentenced and jailed for this. I cannot believe more people are not outraged. I, for one, and SHOCKED and frankly terrified. The state cannot prove that the drug use was the one and only reason for the miscarriage. Furthermore, what a GD slippery slope. Clearly, this is because she is a POC but can conservative red states like OK, TX, etc. now apply the same rationale to women who miscarry after having gone skiing, been drinking, gone to the sauna, and/or engaged in any other activity which the GOP deems as harmful to the fetus? Are we all to be arrested now for miscarriages because something we did may have caused it.

F THAT. I don't care what this woman did. There needs to be significantly more media coverage on this because this is TERRIFYING.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just glad that poor kid never had to be born to such a loser mom. At least she won’t be having another drug addicted baby for the next four years.

100% this

This is so stupid. Laws like these won’t hit home with UMC women until it’s too late.

Imagine a college boyfriend who’s angry you broke up with him retaliating by saying you were drinking so you caused your miscarriage. Or better yet, a contentious divorce. What better way to get everything than to put the ex-wife in jail? Have you ever taken medication for depression? Anxiety? A glass of wine? An edible? Deli meat? Sushi? Exercised?

Once you open the door to criminalizing miscarriages, all adult women can be a target any time.

Everything in your list is legal. Do you understand the difference between sushi and crystal meth? One is ordinary life, the other is illegal to possess.

This is a *really* naive view.

It might be, but you can't get to a misdemeanor without a misdemeanor.

Start with jaywalking or public intoxication or something like that. Not sushi.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m just glad that poor kid never had to be born to such a loser mom. At least she won’t be having another drug addicted baby for the next four years.

100% this

This is so stupid. Laws like these won’t hit home with UMC women until it’s too late.

Imagine a college boyfriend who’s angry you broke up with him retaliating by saying you were drinking so you caused your miscarriage. Or better yet, a contentious divorce. What better way to get everything than to put the ex-wife in jail? Have you ever taken medication for depression? Anxiety? A glass of wine? An edible? Deli meat? Sushi? Exercised?

Once you open the door to criminalizing miscarriages, all adult women can be a target any time.

Everything in your list is legal. Do you understand the difference between sushi and crystal meth? One is ordinary life, the other is illegal to possess.

This is a *really* naive view.

Anonymous wrote:Those of you yelling about how the woman deserves prison because her amphetamine use killed her baby -- did you actually read the article? In any detail? Do you have any ability at all to see legal nuance? I despair that people like you are opining on this without even attempting to acknowledge what is actually said in the article. You cherry-picked and read what you wanted to see, or didn't read at all and are just reacting to other posts.

Use your brains. Read the actual article. Are you fine with the district attorney making a medical decision re: cause of death? That's what happened here:

Brittney Poolaw, 20, was found guilty by a jury earlier this month after the Comanche County District Attorney's Office in Oklahoma said her methamphetamine use was the cause of the loss of her fetus.

However, the cause of death from the DA differed from the medical examiner.

Poolaw was between 15 and 17 weeks pregnant when she suffered a miscarriage on January 4, 2020, according to the medical examiners report viewed by USA TODAY.

The report said the miscarriage could have happened due to genetic anomaly or placenta abruption.

They did note there was evidence of Poolaw using methamphetamine as it was found in the baby's liver and brain, but the medical examiner did not assign a cause of death.

Later the article notes again that "the state," as in the DA, assigned a cause of death. A DA is not a medical examiner. The DA overstepped massively.

The article isn't clear. She was charged with misdemeanor murder, presumably possession is the misdemeanor. I think the article may have been overstating the cause required for felony murder or here, misdemeanor murder. It's also possible that the prosecutor, defense, and judge may not have been clear about that.

The article brings up a lot of legal questions. What is the standard for misdemeanor murder? Was this case well tried or were there some unclear issues? Were there jurisdictional issues at play?

Those of you yelling about how the woman deserves prison because her amphetamine use killed her baby -- did you actually read the article? In any detail? Do you have any ability at all to see legal nuance? I despair that people like you are opining on this without even attempting to acknowledge what is actually said in the article. You cherry-picked and read what you wanted to see, or didn't read at all and are just reacting to other posts.

Use your brains. Read the actual article. Are you fine with the district attorney making a medical decision re: cause of death? That's what happened here:

Brittney Poolaw, 20, was found guilty by a jury earlier this month after the Comanche County District Attorney's Office in Oklahoma said her methamphetamine use was the cause of the loss of her fetus.

However, the cause of death from the DA differed from the medical examiner.

Poolaw was between 15 and 17 weeks pregnant when she suffered a miscarriage on January 4, 2020, according to the medical examiners report viewed by USA TODAY.

The report said the miscarriage could have happened due to genetic anomaly or placenta abruption.

They did note there was evidence of Poolaw using methamphetamine as it was found in the baby's liver and brain, but the medical examiner did not assign a cause of death.

Later the article notes again that "the state," as in the DA, assigned a cause of death. A DA is not a medical examiner. The DA overstepped massively.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry not much sympathy. I was just pregnant. There were so many resources if you were a smoker, drug addict or alcoholic to get you sober. There were hotlines to call and lots of free resources. This baby shouldn’t have had to suffer. I’m very pro choice and she should have had an abortion.

It’s easy and cheap to get an abortion in Oklahoma, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that drug addiction is an illness but I really don't feel bad for this woman. Maybe she can get clean in jail. My aunt was a NICU nurse and worked with too many inconsolable babies who were suffering, screaming and shaking from the symptoms of drug withdrawal. Her stories about these babies whom almost never had visitors and would often end up in foster care was heartbreaking.

Do you think people get drug treatment in jail? You sweet summer child.

Some do but it's also harder to get drugs in jail.

Incarceration doesn’t magically cure addiction. If you’re an addict when you go to prison, you’re still an addict when you’re released. Some addicts will be in recovery and some won’t, but even some of the ones in recovery will have relapses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a hospice chaplain. I held a baby as she died having seizure after seizure due to her drug addicted mother. There were other issues as well, likely from drug and alcohol use. Even after holding that precious infant, I wouldn’t want her mother jailed. That’s barbaric. It does nothing to deter future drug use. It doesn’t help the baby. And it’s a dangerous path. Would you like to go to jail for drinking before you knew you were pregnant? Should smokers go to prison if their babies are low birth weight? What if you slip up and eat too much sugar with gestational diabetes? What if I ride a roller coaster and miscarry? Morning after pill?

Think people. It is a tragic story. She miscarried. That should NEVER come with prison.

She's irresponsible and jail is a punishment for that. Jail is not really meant to be a deterrent. She should of either sought out an abortion or entered a rehab program as soon as she found out she was pregnant.

Just like the father has to? Or did he go to jail too? These programs discriminate against women. It's BS and illegal. Stop devaluing women. They aren't baby makers. Some guy got her pregnant and he is NOT being held to this standard because it is ridiculous and illegal.

He's not being held to this standard because he's not doing meth while pregnant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that drug addiction is an illness but I really don't feel bad for this woman. Maybe she can get clean in jail. My aunt was a NICU nurse and worked with too many inconsolable babies who were suffering, screaming and shaking from the symptoms of drug withdrawal. Her stories about these babies whom almost never had visitors and would often end up in foster care was heartbreaking.

Do you think people get drug treatment in jail? You sweet summer child.

Some do but it's also harder to get drugs in jail.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people who created and profited from these drugs donate loads of money to museums. They are honored and lauded while making addicts of newborns.

The Sackler family.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/28/1040447650/payouts-purdue-pharma-settlement-sackler

The Sackler family is persona non grata now.

Poor billionaires. Life is just so unfair to the wealthy.

They're not lauded and honored.

They also have enormous generational wealth. I would take being vilified for billions of dollars. In a few generations, no one will care and that wealth will still be around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand that drug addiction is an illness but I really don't feel bad for this woman. Maybe she can get clean in jail. My aunt was a NICU nurse and worked with too many inconsolable babies who were suffering, screaming and shaking from the symptoms of drug withdrawal. Her stories about these babies whom almost never had visitors and would often end up in foster care was heartbreaking.

A baby on my floor when I gave birth was going through opiate withdrawals. I knew because of the newborn’s piercing high pitched screams of agony. It was gutting.

You know what’s cheaper than four years in jail? Nine months of drug treatment. There are better ways to treat pregnant drug addicts than jailing them after they have a miscarriage.

Oh? What’s the success rate of court-ordered (not self initiated) drug treatment?

What’s the recidivism rate for drug offenses post incarceration?

Anonymous wrote:
PUNISHING DRUG ADDICTS DOES NOT CURE THEM.

TREATING THEM GIVES THEM A CHANCE TO MANAGE THEIR LIVES AND GET BETTER.

When are we finally, as a society, going to stop punishing sick people and victims?

It's horrific. Remember the first mental hospitals that looked like torture chambers? This is the same thing.

This is what “Defund the Police” was all about; not handicapping police departments so they can’t respond to crimes in progress, but using some of the current police funding to fund the appropriate professionals to deal with situations like this, where incarceration does nothing for society, but drug intervention and parenting classes could.

Sorry not much sympathy. I was just pregnant. There were so many resources if you were a smoker, drug addict or alcoholic to get you sober. There were hotlines to call and lots of free resources. This baby shouldn’t have had to suffer. I’m very pro choice and she should have had an abortion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why? Because she is brown and poor, and has a history of drug addiction. If she were white the other two would be reason for compassion.

My mom worked nicu at a hospital in a white very upper class area. She said so many of the women would just do cocaine to induce labor. They test every baby for drugs when they are born. They’d just note on the chart that the baby was cocaine positive and go on with their day.

wow, did not know that.

DP. The mom nurse is probably leaving out the social worker and/or legal consequences associated with the test results.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why? Because she is brown and poor, and has a history of drug addiction. If she were white the other two would be reason for compassion.

My mom worked nicu at a hospital in a white very upper class area. She said so many of the women would just do cocaine to induce labor. They test every baby for drugs when they are born. They’d just note on the chart that the baby was cocaine positive and go on with their day.

wow, did not know that.