Hopefully MLSnext fails and does so quickly. It is a pure money grab by MLS designed to avoid cutting in clubs on development dollars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't Bethesda and FC Delco former DA clubs now in MLS Next?

Yes - sorry. I just took the list from the league standings, and for some reason neither of those clubs show up in some of the age groups, even though they show up on schedules.

So the former DA clubs in the mid Atlantic region MLS Next region are Baltimore, Bethesda, FC Delco TSF, PDA, PA Classics, and Cedar Stars - seven clubs. I think the ECNL list was correct at NCFC, Richmond, Charlotte SA, Charlotte Independence, NC Fusion, Arlington and VDA - also seven. So again the basic point (which is that by this measure the strength of the two leagues is similar) is still valid.

I could make another point about the crappiness of the MLS Next web-site being a further indication of the fact that this league is still getting its act together. Why don't all the mid-Atlantic clubs show up in the standings for most age groups? Why do schedules not show matches already played (and the sbility to change the date doesn't work in at least some browsers)?

The point you are making is that you are technologically incompetent and probably the same insufferable, tedious Long Bridge lurker who combs through YSR at each age and makes endless excuses for Arlington’s declining performance in age groups that were never DA. Hello again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't Bethesda and FC Delco former DA clubs now in MLS Next?

Yes - sorry. I just took the list from the league standings, and for some reason neither of those clubs show up in some of the age groups, even though they show up on schedules.

So the former DA clubs in the mid Atlantic region MLS Next region are Baltimore, Bethesda, FC Delco TSF, PDA, PA Classics, and Cedar Stars - seven clubs. I think the ECNL list was correct at NCFC, Richmond, Charlotte SA, Charlotte Independence, NC Fusion, Arlington and VDA - also seven. So again the basic point (which is that by this measure the strength of the two leagues is similar) is still valid.

I could make another point about the crappiness of the MLS Next web-site being a further indication of the fact that this league is still getting its act together. Why don't all the mid-Atlantic clubs show up in the standings for most age groups? Why do schedules not show matches already played (and the sbility to change the date doesn't work in at least some browsers)?

+ DCU = 8 clubs

No - because I discussed the MLS clubs separately (not least because DCU only has three age groups for example, and PU/NYRB have four). This comparison was between the non-MLS clubs.

It's also true that most of the ECNL clubs scrimmage one or more MLS clubs outside the ECNL schedule as well, which makes the difference between leagues smaller still.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't Bethesda and FC Delco former DA clubs now in MLS Next?

Yes - sorry. I just took the list from the league standings, and for some reason neither of those clubs show up in some of the age groups, even though they show up on schedules.

So the former DA clubs in the mid Atlantic region MLS Next region are Baltimore, Bethesda, FC Delco TSF, PDA, PA Classics, and Cedar Stars - seven clubs. I think the ECNL list was correct at NCFC, Richmond, Charlotte SA, Charlotte Independence, NC Fusion, Arlington and VDA - also seven. So again the basic point (which is that by this measure the strength of the two leagues is similar) is still valid.

I could make another point about the crappiness of the MLS Next web-site being a further indication of the fact that this league is still getting its act together. Why don't all the mid-Atlantic clubs show up in the standings for most age groups? Why do schedules not show matches already played (and the sbility to change the date doesn't work in at least some browsers)?

+ DCU = 8 clubs

Anonymous wrote:Aren't Bethesda and FC Delco former DA clubs now in MLS Next?

Yes - sorry. I just took the list from the league standings, and for some reason neither of those clubs show up in some of the age groups, even though they show up on schedules.

So the former DA clubs in the mid Atlantic region MLS Next region are Baltimore, Bethesda, FC Delco TSF, PDA, PA Classics, and Cedar Stars - seven clubs. I think the ECNL list was correct at NCFC, Richmond, Charlotte SA, Charlotte Independence, NC Fusion, Arlington and VDA - also seven. So again the basic point (which is that by this measure the strength of the two leagues is similar) is still valid.

I could make another point about the crappiness of the MLS Next web-site being a further indication of the fact that this league is still getting its act together. Why don't all the mid-Atlantic clubs show up in the standings for most age groups? Why do schedules not show matches already played (and the sbility to change the date doesn't work in at least some browsers)?

Aren't Bethesda and FC Delco former DA clubs now in MLS Next?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At U16, his team would play 19 games, including DCU twice

Looks like 15 games to me: https://www.mlssoccer.com/mlsnext/schedule/2021-2022/u16_mls-next-schedule

That is because you are not seeing the games already played at that link. Stop guessing and then lying. You don’t know what you are talking about and continue posting assumptions posing as facts that are based on things that are changing significantly and we’re nothing more than opinions in the first place.

You're correct on the schedule, which doesn't really alter my argument though. The non MLS clubs are getting fewer games than the MLS academies (whose games I also undercounted the same way), and fewer games against MLS clubs than was the case in the old DA. Those are facts.

As far as the rest of your comment - I think I do know what I'm talking about. And yes of course I am posting my opinions as well as facts. For example it is a fact that mid Atlantic ECNL has more ex DA clubs than mid Atlantic MLS Next. It is my opinion that Richmond, Pipeline and Arlington are on a par with Baltimore, PDA and Bethesda. This should be obvious to most people and I don't see why posting opinions, and facts which support them, is in any way controversial. And if I mis-state a fact, feel free to correct me as you have. And if the mis-statement doesn't really materially change the argument then it doesn't matter all that much, does it?

Just looking at one club, one age group in MLS Next:

Achilles U13s (2009) have 24 matches in the year, 11 in the fall and 13 in the spring. They play Philadelphia Union and NY Red Bulls twice each, plus Delco, PA Classics, the local MLS Next squads (Alexandria, Bethesda, SYC, Armour, and SYC), Cedar Stars, PDA, Real Jersey, and TSF Academy (NJ).

I'm not equipped to do a granular comparison vs. the regional ECNL counterpart, but it looks like a well-balanced, quality schedule.

Anonymous wrote:

At U16, his team would play 19 games, including DCU twice

Looks like 15 games to me: https://www.mlssoccer.com/mlsnext/schedule/2021-2022/u16_mls-next-schedule

That is because you are not seeing the games already played at that link. Stop guessing and then lying. You don’t know what you are talking about and continue posting assumptions posing as facts that are based on things that are changing significantly and we’re nothing more than opinions in the first place.

At U16, his team would play 19 games, including DCU twice

Looks like 15 games to me: https://www.mlssoccer.com/mlsnext/schedule/2021-2022/u16_mls-next-schedule

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCU parent here. In assessing MLS Next vs ECNL, you probably need to evaluate DCU separately from the other MLS Next clubs in the area. The MLS clubs play the vast majority of their games against each other. I think 21 of our 29 "regular season" games are against other MLS academies (from Toronto and Montreal down to Orlando and Miami). The reverse is true for the non-MLS clubs in the league (Bethesda, Armour, SYC, Alexandria) -- they only play a handful of games against MLS academies. They mostly play other non-MLS clubs (including good ones like PDA, Delco, Cedar Stars). But it's really two pretty different experiences of one league.

This asymmetry was part of what MLS clubs wanted, but never got, from the DA; now they can do it, since they created the league.

There is no DCU at U13-14; Achilles, Alexandria, BSC, SYC and Armour are playing each other and others, including Philadelphia Union and Red Bulls. It is designed to be a pyramid, or funnel, where top players go to DCU. We are at one of the other clubs and don't really care about being on a par with DCU. That's not the objective and people are smoking serious dope if they think their ECNL clubs are truly competitive with MLS academies among the same age groups. That's also true for the non-MLS Academy MLS Next teams, with a few exceptions.

But if you are really caught up in being treated first among equals, have no doubt, I am sure you can find that in the ECNL.

True. Pro MLS clubs are truly a different level than ECNL clubs. Non pro MLS clubs are about the same level as ECNL. Non pro MLS clubs simply do not have the facilities, coaching staff, and recruiting to compete with pro MLS clubs.

Pro MLS clubs are not all at a different level. Here on the east coast they mostly are, as we have arguably two of the three most competitive youth programs in the MLS in NYRB and PU. There are MLS clubs in other parts of the country that are not nearly as strong.

And re facilities, coaching staff and recruiting - that is generally true, but not for DCU which invests very little in its youth program.

As someone who went to the MLS Cup this year and saw most of the pro MLS clubs at multiple age groups, I can tell you that NYRB and PU are not exceptions. All the pro MLS clubs across the country are exceptionally strong.

And as someone else who has observed the MLS academies playing for years, I disagree.

The winning teams from the MLS Cup. None are PU or NYRB.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/four-mls-next-cup-champions-crowned-at-inaugural-tournament

Really? That's your argument?

Those clubs only enter U15 and U17 teams in the first place, so they don't even compete in the U16 or U19 age groups. And just because two clubs are amongst the top MLS academies doesn't mean their teams are the best every single year, and nor does the best team always win a knock-out competition - in fact the best team often does not win. And in many cases the best players at those clubs are not playing on age, but are playing up or with the first team or a USL team.

And to illustrate the self-contradictory nature of your argument, four of the eight finalists (Philadelphia reached one of the two finals where they entered a team by the way) were not even MLS clubs and it is you (or your co-arguer) who claimed that all MLS clubs are on a totally different level from non MLS clubs.

The question is whether ECNL clubs could compete with pro MLS clubs. Keeping non pro MLS clubs aside, the answer is "No".

I rather think the top ECNL clubs (the ex DA ones) can compete with the weaker MLS clubs. Look at the results Richmond or Arlington get against DCU when they play. And I think they would do the same or better against any of Charlotte/Houston/Cincinnati/Columbus for example. And the same holds true for the Dallas Texans, NCFC, and a handful of other top ECNL clubs.

Will MLS Next be tiered? That was the initial plan?

It is effectively tiered.

The MLS clubs play a lot of games against each other. The remaining clubs play the MLS clubs occasionally (max three times in our region, depending on age group) and mainly against each other. At some age groups the MLS clubs don't enter teams so for example if you are U13, U14 you don't play against DCU because they don't have a team. At U16 you don't play PU or NYRB and at U19 you don't play any MLS clubs.

In my opinion there aren't enough games for the non MLS clubs. For example SYC's U19 team gets 14 league games and that's it. The U16 team gets 15 games. The younger teams are a little better off - the U15 team gets 17 games for example. But the DCU U15 team gets 24 games.

Contrast this with the old DA where a local team would play five games against MLS opponents (3 against DCU and 1 each against NYRB and PU) and more games in total.

You don’t play DCU at U13-14 but you play PU and NYRB and plenty of other top teams, certainly better than local ECNL teams. At U16, his team would play 19 games, including DCU twice. And I am sorry, but aside from VDA, who else had DA at all ages in this area who is now in ECNL? So Arlington at u16 was playing how many games against MLS academies?

Let's compare the mid Atlantic divisions.

MLS Next: PDA and Baltimore are the two best clubs with Behesda a little behind. Cedar Stars might be good - I can't remember which one is the good one - Monmouth or Bergen. And the rest are all in a range from a bit better than McLean to similar to Loudoun or VDA. None of them is as bad as BRYC.

ECNL: Richmond, NCFC, Arlington and Pipeline too are all similar to the top three MLS Next teams. Charlotte SA, Skyline, VDA and Loudoun are not quite as good but absolutely competitive with the second tier of MLS next clubs. And NC Fusion and Charlotte Independence are ex DA clubs as well who were at the weaker end of the DA along with current MLS next clubs like TSF and PA Classics.

The only real differences between the leagues, at least in this area, are
- the MLS academies, against whom MLS Next clubs only get a handful of games
- the dross at the bottom of ECNL. Clubs like BRYC, Wilmington, Maryland United, Baltimore Celtic are not in MLS Next.

If you want to focus on ex DA teams as a mesaure of quality then MLS Next has Baltimore, TSF, PDA, PA Classics, and Cedar Stars. ECNL has Arlington (yes they only had three age groups, but had just been awarded a fourth and the older kids now all came through that program), Richmond, VDA, NCFC, NC Fusion, Charlotte SA, and Charlotte Independence. Even without Arlington, ECNL has more.

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Anonymous wrote:DCU parent here. In assessing MLS Next vs ECNL, you probably need to evaluate DCU separately from the other MLS Next clubs in the area. The MLS clubs play the vast majority of their games against each other. I think 21 of our 29 "regular season" games are against other MLS academies (from Toronto and Montreal down to Orlando and Miami). The reverse is true for the non-MLS clubs in the league (Bethesda, Armour, SYC, Alexandria) -- they only play a handful of games against MLS academies. They mostly play other non-MLS clubs (including good ones like PDA, Delco, Cedar Stars). But it's really two pretty different experiences of one league.

This asymmetry was part of what MLS clubs wanted, but never got, from the DA; now they can do it, since they created the league.

There is no DCU at U13-14; Achilles, Alexandria, BSC, SYC and Armour are playing each other and others, including Philadelphia Union and Red Bulls. It is designed to be a pyramid, or funnel, where top players go to DCU. We are at one of the other clubs and don't really care about being on a par with DCU. That's not the objective and people are smoking serious dope if they think their ECNL clubs are truly competitive with MLS academies among the same age groups. That's also true for the non-MLS Academy MLS Next teams, with a few exceptions.

But if you are really caught up in being treated first among equals, have no doubt, I am sure you can find that in the ECNL.

True. Pro MLS clubs are truly a different level than ECNL clubs. Non pro MLS clubs are about the same level as ECNL. Non pro MLS clubs simply do not have the facilities, coaching staff, and recruiting to compete with pro MLS clubs.

Pro MLS clubs are not all at a different level. Here on the east coast they mostly are, as we have arguably two of the three most competitive youth programs in the MLS in NYRB and PU. There are MLS clubs in other parts of the country that are not nearly as strong.

And re facilities, coaching staff and recruiting - that is generally true, but not for DCU which invests very little in its youth program.

As someone who went to the MLS Cup this year and saw most of the pro MLS clubs at multiple age groups, I can tell you that NYRB and PU are not exceptions. All the pro MLS clubs across the country are exceptionally strong.

And as someone else who has observed the MLS academies playing for years, I disagree.

The winning teams from the MLS Cup. None are PU or NYRB.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/four-mls-next-cup-champions-crowned-at-inaugural-tournament

Really? That's your argument?

Those clubs only enter U15 and U17 teams in the first place, so they don't even compete in the U16 or U19 age groups. And just because two clubs are amongst the top MLS academies doesn't mean their teams are the best every single year, and nor does the best team always win a knock-out competition - in fact the best team often does not win. And in many cases the best players at those clubs are not playing on age, but are playing up or with the first team or a USL team.

And to illustrate the self-contradictory nature of your argument, four of the eight finalists (Philadelphia reached one of the two finals where they entered a team by the way) were not even MLS clubs and it is you (or your co-arguer) who claimed that all MLS clubs are on a totally different level from non MLS clubs.

The question is whether ECNL clubs could compete with pro MLS clubs. Keeping non pro MLS clubs aside, the answer is "No".

I rather think the top ECNL clubs (the ex DA ones) can compete with the weaker MLS clubs. Look at the results Richmond or Arlington get against DCU when they play. And I think they would do the same or better against any of Charlotte/Houston/Cincinnati/Columbus for example. And the same holds true for the Dallas Texans, NCFC, and a handful of other top ECNL clubs.

Will MLS Next be tiered? That was the initial plan?

It is effectively tiered.

The MLS clubs play a lot of games against each other. The remaining clubs play the MLS clubs occasionally (max three times in our region, depending on age group) and mainly against each other. At some age groups the MLS clubs don't enter teams so for example if you are U13, U14 you don't play against DCU because they don't have a team. At U16 you don't play PU or NYRB and at U19 you don't play any MLS clubs.

In my opinion there aren't enough games for the non MLS clubs. For example SYC's U19 team gets 14 league games and that's it. The U16 team gets 15 games. The younger teams are a little better off - the U15 team gets 17 games for example. But the DCU U15 team gets 24 games.

Contrast this with the old DA where a local team would play five games against MLS opponents (3 against DCU and 1 each against NYRB and PU) and more games in total.

You don’t play DCU at U13-14 but you play PU and NYRB and plenty of other top teams, certainly better than local ECNL teams. At U16, his team would play 19 games, including DCU twice. And I am sorry, but aside from VDA, who else had DA at all ages in this area who is now in ECNL? So Arlington at u16 was playing how many games against MLS academies?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCU parent here. In assessing MLS Next vs ECNL, you probably need to evaluate DCU separately from the other MLS Next clubs in the area. The MLS clubs play the vast majority of their games against each other. I think 21 of our 29 "regular season" games are against other MLS academies (from Toronto and Montreal down to Orlando and Miami). The reverse is true for the non-MLS clubs in the league (Bethesda, Armour, SYC, Alexandria) -- they only play a handful of games against MLS academies. They mostly play other non-MLS clubs (including good ones like PDA, Delco, Cedar Stars). But it's really two pretty different experiences of one league.

This asymmetry was part of what MLS clubs wanted, but never got, from the DA; now they can do it, since they created the league.

There is no DCU at U13-14; Achilles, Alexandria, BSC, SYC and Armour are playing each other and others, including Philadelphia Union and Red Bulls. It is designed to be a pyramid, or funnel, where top players go to DCU. We are at one of the other clubs and don't really care about being on a par with DCU. That's not the objective and people are smoking serious dope if they think their ECNL clubs are truly competitive with MLS academies among the same age groups. That's also true for the non-MLS Academy MLS Next teams, with a few exceptions.

But if you are really caught up in being treated first among equals, have no doubt, I am sure you can find that in the ECNL.

True. Pro MLS clubs are truly a different level than ECNL clubs. Non pro MLS clubs are about the same level as ECNL. Non pro MLS clubs simply do not have the facilities, coaching staff, and recruiting to compete with pro MLS clubs.

Pro MLS clubs are not all at a different level. Here on the east coast they mostly are, as we have arguably two of the three most competitive youth programs in the MLS in NYRB and PU. There are MLS clubs in other parts of the country that are not nearly as strong.

And re facilities, coaching staff and recruiting - that is generally true, but not for DCU which invests very little in its youth program.

As someone who went to the MLS Cup this year and saw most of the pro MLS clubs at multiple age groups, I can tell you that NYRB and PU are not exceptions. All the pro MLS clubs across the country are exceptionally strong.

And as someone else who has observed the MLS academies playing for years, I disagree.

The winning teams from the MLS Cup. None are PU or NYRB.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/four-mls-next-cup-champions-crowned-at-inaugural-tournament

Really? That's your argument?

Those clubs only enter U15 and U17 teams in the first place, so they don't even compete in the U16 or U19 age groups. And just because two clubs are amongst the top MLS academies doesn't mean their teams are the best every single year, and nor does the best team always win a knock-out competition - in fact the best team often does not win. And in many cases the best players at those clubs are not playing on age, but are playing up or with the first team or a USL team.

And to illustrate the self-contradictory nature of your argument, four of the eight finalists (Philadelphia reached one of the two finals where they entered a team by the way) were not even MLS clubs and it is you (or your co-arguer) who claimed that all MLS clubs are on a totally different level from non MLS clubs.

The question is whether ECNL clubs could compete with pro MLS clubs. Keeping non pro MLS clubs aside, the answer is "No".

I rather think the top ECNL clubs (the ex DA ones) can compete with the weaker MLS clubs. Look at the results Richmond or Arlington get against DCU when they play. And I think they would do the same or better against any of Charlotte/Houston/Cincinnati/Columbus for example. And the same holds true for the Dallas Texans, NCFC, and a handful of other top ECNL clubs.

We will see. I can see that working for clubs that don’t have local DA competition, like Richmond. ECNL clubs in this area are losing the battle in recruiting talent at U13/14.

Could change in future for Arlington perhaps - certainly losing the academy TD as was rumored on another thread could result in a big drop - not so sure whether the U13/14 "recruiting talent battle" makes that much of a difference though.

I also think the ECNL / MLS Next battle is more finely balanced than many here appear to think. MLS Next is not such a great deal for non MLS clubs, and it wouldn't surprise me to see clubs leave for ECNL in the next year or two. It wouldn't surprise me if this didn't happen either, but I don't think MLS Next's success is yet assured by any means.

But certainly Richmond will carry on just the same, as will the Carolina clubs where MLS Next is almost non existent.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCU parent here. In assessing MLS Next vs ECNL, you probably need to evaluate DCU separately from the other MLS Next clubs in the area. The MLS clubs play the vast majority of their games against each other. I think 21 of our 29 "regular season" games are against other MLS academies (from Toronto and Montreal down to Orlando and Miami). The reverse is true for the non-MLS clubs in the league (Bethesda, Armour, SYC, Alexandria) -- they only play a handful of games against MLS academies. They mostly play other non-MLS clubs (including good ones like PDA, Delco, Cedar Stars). But it's really two pretty different experiences of one league.

This asymmetry was part of what MLS clubs wanted, but never got, from the DA; now they can do it, since they created the league.

There is no DCU at U13-14; Achilles, Alexandria, BSC, SYC and Armour are playing each other and others, including Philadelphia Union and Red Bulls. It is designed to be a pyramid, or funnel, where top players go to DCU. We are at one of the other clubs and don't really care about being on a par with DCU. That's not the objective and people are smoking serious dope if they think their ECNL clubs are truly competitive with MLS academies among the same age groups. That's also true for the non-MLS Academy MLS Next teams, with a few exceptions.

But if you are really caught up in being treated first among equals, have no doubt, I am sure you can find that in the ECNL.

True. Pro MLS clubs are truly a different level than ECNL clubs. Non pro MLS clubs are about the same level as ECNL. Non pro MLS clubs simply do not have the facilities, coaching staff, and recruiting to compete with pro MLS clubs.

Pro MLS clubs are not all at a different level. Here on the east coast they mostly are, as we have arguably two of the three most competitive youth programs in the MLS in NYRB and PU. There are MLS clubs in other parts of the country that are not nearly as strong.

And re facilities, coaching staff and recruiting - that is generally true, but not for DCU which invests very little in its youth program.

As someone who went to the MLS Cup this year and saw most of the pro MLS clubs at multiple age groups, I can tell you that NYRB and PU are not exceptions. All the pro MLS clubs across the country are exceptionally strong.

And as someone else who has observed the MLS academies playing for years, I disagree.

The winning teams from the MLS Cup. None are PU or NYRB.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/four-mls-next-cup-champions-crowned-at-inaugural-tournament

Really? That's your argument?

Those clubs only enter U15 and U17 teams in the first place, so they don't even compete in the U16 or U19 age groups. And just because two clubs are amongst the top MLS academies doesn't mean their teams are the best every single year, and nor does the best team always win a knock-out competition - in fact the best team often does not win. And in many cases the best players at those clubs are not playing on age, but are playing up or with the first team or a USL team.

And to illustrate the self-contradictory nature of your argument, four of the eight finalists (Philadelphia reached one of the two finals where they entered a team by the way) were not even MLS clubs and it is you (or your co-arguer) who claimed that all MLS clubs are on a totally different level from non MLS clubs.

The question is whether ECNL clubs could compete with pro MLS clubs. Keeping non pro MLS clubs aside, the answer is "No".

I rather think the top ECNL clubs (the ex DA ones) can compete with the weaker MLS clubs. Look at the results Richmond or Arlington get against DCU when they play. And I think they would do the same or better against any of Charlotte/Houston/Cincinnati/Columbus for example. And the same holds true for the Dallas Texans, NCFC, and a handful of other top ECNL clubs.

Will MLS Next be tiered? That was the initial plan?

It is effectively tiered.

The MLS clubs play a lot of games against each other. The remaining clubs play the MLS clubs occasionally (max three times in our region, depending on age group) and mainly against each other. At some age groups the MLS clubs don't enter teams so for example if you are U13, U14 you don't play against DCU because they don't have a team. At U16 you don't play PU or NYRB and at U19 you don't play any MLS clubs.

In my opinion there aren't enough games for the non MLS clubs. For example SYC's U19 team gets 14 league games and that's it. The U16 team gets 15 games. The younger teams are a little better off - the U15 team gets 17 games for example. But the DCU U15 team gets 24 games.

Contrast this with the old DA where a local team would play five games against MLS opponents (3 against DCU and 1 each against NYRB and PU) and more games in total.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCU parent here. In assessing MLS Next vs ECNL, you probably need to evaluate DCU separately from the other MLS Next clubs in the area. The MLS clubs play the vast majority of their games against each other. I think 21 of our 29 "regular season" games are against other MLS academies (from Toronto and Montreal down to Orlando and Miami). The reverse is true for the non-MLS clubs in the league (Bethesda, Armour, SYC, Alexandria) -- they only play a handful of games against MLS academies. They mostly play other non-MLS clubs (including good ones like PDA, Delco, Cedar Stars). But it's really two pretty different experiences of one league.

This asymmetry was part of what MLS clubs wanted, but never got, from the DA; now they can do it, since they created the league.

There is no DCU at U13-14; Achilles, Alexandria, BSC, SYC and Armour are playing each other and others, including Philadelphia Union and Red Bulls. It is designed to be a pyramid, or funnel, where top players go to DCU. We are at one of the other clubs and don't really care about being on a par with DCU. That's not the objective and people are smoking serious dope if they think their ECNL clubs are truly competitive with MLS academies among the same age groups. That's also true for the non-MLS Academy MLS Next teams, with a few exceptions.

But if you are really caught up in being treated first among equals, have no doubt, I am sure you can find that in the ECNL.

True. Pro MLS clubs are truly a different level than ECNL clubs. Non pro MLS clubs are about the same level as ECNL. Non pro MLS clubs simply do not have the facilities, coaching staff, and recruiting to compete with pro MLS clubs.

Pro MLS clubs are not all at a different level. Here on the east coast they mostly are, as we have arguably two of the three most competitive youth programs in the MLS in NYRB and PU. There are MLS clubs in other parts of the country that are not nearly as strong.

And re facilities, coaching staff and recruiting - that is generally true, but not for DCU which invests very little in its youth program.

As someone who went to the MLS Cup this year and saw most of the pro MLS clubs at multiple age groups, I can tell you that NYRB and PU are not exceptions. All the pro MLS clubs across the country are exceptionally strong.

And as someone else who has observed the MLS academies playing for years, I disagree.

The winning teams from the MLS Cup. None are PU or NYRB.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/four-mls-next-cup-champions-crowned-at-inaugural-tournament

Really? That's your argument?

Those clubs only enter U15 and U17 teams in the first place, so they don't even compete in the U16 or U19 age groups. And just because two clubs are amongst the top MLS academies doesn't mean their teams are the best every single year, and nor does the best team always win a knock-out competition - in fact the best team often does not win. And in many cases the best players at those clubs are not playing on age, but are playing up or with the first team or a USL team.

And to illustrate the self-contradictory nature of your argument, four of the eight finalists (Philadelphia reached one of the two finals where they entered a team by the way) were not even MLS clubs and it is you (or your co-arguer) who claimed that all MLS clubs are on a totally different level from non MLS clubs.

The question is whether ECNL clubs could compete with pro MLS clubs. Keeping non pro MLS clubs aside, the answer is "No".

I rather think the top ECNL clubs (the ex DA ones) can compete with the weaker MLS clubs. Look at the results Richmond or Arlington get against DCU when they play. And I think they would do the same or better against any of Charlotte/Houston/Cincinnati/Columbus for example. And the same holds true for the Dallas Texans, NCFC, and a handful of other top ECNL clubs.

We will see. I can see that working for clubs that don’t have local DA competition, like Richmond. ECNL clubs in this area are losing the battle in recruiting talent at U13/14.