Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 18:40     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are so many factors that reduce the odds of major boundary changes. The PP's touch on a really big one, which is the impact of academic programs on enrollments. It turns into a big chicken vs. egg exercise. The boundary changes that you might make if a Carson isn't going to remain a mega-AAP center forever are very different than the changes you might make if it is.

The other big factor is the reluctance of the recent and current School Board to talk about sending kids to lower rated schools except in the most abstract terms. It's one thing for a Pat Hynes to talk generally about using boundaries as a tool to promote equity. It's another thing to actually do it - hasn't been done in FCPS for over a decade. And of course we've seen the members like Elaine Tholen who pay lip service to equity but make sure no apartments go to Langley.


I don't live near Langley and don't know the make up of the apartments nearby, etc. However, it has been suggested on this forum before that poor kids from Herndon be bused to Langley. That would be a disaster.

Busing does not work. Taking poor kids out of their community aggravates the problem. I taught in a bused school many years ago. Sounds good on paper. Not good in reality, and it does not promote "equity."


Langley is already bussed.

The single biggest boundary problem with FCPS is that Langley and McLean are too close to each other. The fact that they are bussing kids from near Loudoun to Langley is insane.


Why? Langley is about 3.5 miles from McLean. Oakton is less than 2.0 miles from Madison.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 18:37     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I also feel like Woodson High School was placed in the wrong area of Fairfax County. Woodson High School should have been located halfway between Fairfax High School and Centreville High School, a little before the exclave of Fairfax High School's boundary begins. That way Fairfax High School would have students from the City of Fairfax and the eastern portion of Woodson's current boundary while Woodson would have students from the exclave of Fairfax High School's current boundary plus the western portion of Woodson's current boundary. Woodson High School as it is is too close to Fairfax High School while there is a significant distance between FHS and Chantilly High School or Centreville High School. If Woodson High School were in this new hypothetical location I think the boundaries would be better.


You're going to need a big trailer to relocate Woodson!

But, yes, Madison, Oakton, Woodson, and Fairfax HS are too close to one another. This skews the boundaries in central/western Fairfax.

Langley also is in an inconvenient location. It would be better if it were near Great Falls Village, and not so close to the Potomac River and Arlington County.

It would also help if Robinson were further southwest of its current location.


What’s interesting is that the western part of the Woodson boundary could go to Robinson. They literally pass it driving down Braddock road to get to Woodson.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 18:36     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I also feel like Woodson High School was placed in the wrong area of Fairfax County. Woodson High School should have been located halfway between Fairfax High School and Centreville High School, a little before the exclave of Fairfax High School's boundary begins. That way Fairfax High School would have students from the City of Fairfax and the eastern portion of Woodson's current boundary while Woodson would have students from the exclave of Fairfax High School's current boundary plus the western portion of Woodson's current boundary. Woodson High School as it is is too close to Fairfax High School while there is a significant distance between FHS and Chantilly High School or Centreville High School. If Woodson High School were in this new hypothetical location I think the boundaries would be better.


You're going to need a big trailer to relocate Woodson!

But, yes, Madison, Oakton, Woodson, and Fairfax HS are too close to one another. This skews the boundaries in central/western Fairfax.

Langley also is in an inconvenient location. It would be better if it were near Great Falls Village, and not so close to the Potomac River and Arlington County.

It would also help if Robinson were further southwest of its current location.


Yes, Robinson being further southwest would be helpful. Or even just being further south. Because Robinson and Lake Braddock are both in a somewhat straight line next to each other. If instead Robinson was located further south, and you combined both districts then gave the Northern half to Lake Braddock and the Southern half to Robinson; I believe that should reduce students commute to school on average.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 18:29     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are so many factors that reduce the odds of major boundary changes. The PP's touch on a really big one, which is the impact of academic programs on enrollments. It turns into a big chicken vs. egg exercise. The boundary changes that you might make if a Carson isn't going to remain a mega-AAP center forever are very different than the changes you might make if it is.

The other big factor is the reluctance of the recent and current School Board to talk about sending kids to lower rated schools except in the most abstract terms. It's one thing for a Pat Hynes to talk generally about using boundaries as a tool to promote equity. It's another thing to actually do it - hasn't been done in FCPS for over a decade. And of course we've seen the members like Elaine Tholen who pay lip service to equity but make sure no apartments go to Langley.


I don't live near Langley and don't know the make up of the apartments nearby, etc. However, it has been suggested on this forum before that poor kids from Herndon be bused to Langley. That would be a disaster.

Busing does not work. Taking poor kids out of their community aggravates the problem. I taught in a bused school many years ago. Sounds good on paper. Not good in reality, and it does not promote "equity."


Langley is already bussed.

The single biggest boundary problem with FCPS is that Langley and McLean are too close to each other. The fact that they are bussing kids from near Loudoun to Langley is insane.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 18:21     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I also feel like Woodson High School was placed in the wrong area of Fairfax County. Woodson High School should have been located halfway between Fairfax High School and Centreville High School, a little before the exclave of Fairfax High School's boundary begins. That way Fairfax High School would have students from the City of Fairfax and the eastern portion of Woodson's current boundary while Woodson would have students from the exclave of Fairfax High School's current boundary plus the western portion of Woodson's current boundary. Woodson High School as it is is too close to Fairfax High School while there is a significant distance between FHS and Chantilly High School or Centreville High School. If Woodson High School were in this new hypothetical location I think the boundaries would be better.


You're going to need a big trailer to relocate Woodson!

But, yes, Madison, Oakton, Woodson, and Fairfax HS are too close to one another. This skews the boundaries in central/western Fairfax.

Langley also is in an inconvenient location. It would be better if it were near Great Falls Village, and not so close to the Potomac River and Arlington County.

It would also help if Robinson were further southwest of its current location.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 18:10     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
OP here. I also feel like Woodson High School was placed in the wrong area of Fairfax County. Woodson High School should have been located halfway between Fairfax High School and Centreville High School, a little before the exclave of Fairfax High School's boundary begins. That way Fairfax High School would have students from the City of Fairfax and the eastern portion of Woodson's current boundary while Woodson would have students from the exclave of Fairfax High School's current boundary plus the western portion of Woodson's current boundary. Woodson High School as it is is too close to Fairfax High School while there is a significant distance between FHS and Chantilly High School or Centreville High School. If Woodson High School were in this new hypothetical location I think the boundaries would be better.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 18:07     Subject: How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:I would aim to minimize changes. People bought expecting to be able to go to a certain school. Or if you need to make massive change I would phase them in SLowly so those in school now age out before the changes happen.

I would keep existing attendance islands. I think they are used to diversify.
I would try to eliminate split feeders as that sucks for kids.


I attended split feeders in FCPS. My ES split to two middle schools, and my MS split to four high schools.

It did not suck.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 18:04     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are so many factors that reduce the odds of major boundary changes. The PP's touch on a really big one, which is the impact of academic programs on enrollments. It turns into a big chicken vs. egg exercise. The boundary changes that you might make if a Carson isn't going to remain a mega-AAP center forever are very different than the changes you might make if it is.

The other big factor is the reluctance of the recent and current School Board to talk about sending kids to lower rated schools except in the most abstract terms. It's one thing for a Pat Hynes to talk generally about using boundaries as a tool to promote equity. It's another thing to actually do it - hasn't been done in FCPS for over a decade. And of course we've seen the members like Elaine Tholen who pay lip service to equity but make sure no apartments go to Langley.


I don't live near Langley and don't know the make up of the apartments nearby, etc. However, it has been suggested on this forum before that poor kids from Herndon be bused to Langley. That would be a disaster.

Busing does not work. Taking poor kids out of their community aggravates the problem. I taught in a bused school many years ago. Sounds good on paper. Not good in reality, and it does not promote "equity."


Right. But taking rich kids out of their neighborhoods to attend a school with other rich kids 10-15 miles away is fine. In fact, we'll even define the areas where the rich kids live as a single "community," if needed, even though it's not a separate town or city, just wealthy unincorporated parts of a county with over a million people.

Anyway, the point was that things usually only work in one direction in FCPS, regardless of the occasional lofty rhetoric.


1. The "rich" parents can manage to get their kids to school if they miss the bus. That is a fact.
2. The "rich" parents can ferry their kids from after school activities, sports, etc.
3. Do these "rich" kids all have jobs after school or are responsible for watching younger siblings? Doubtful.

Big, big difference.



Please stop with your obnoxious stereotypes.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 18:03     Subject: How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Given that these are the boundary maps for FCPS:

High School - https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/SY%202021-22%20High%20School%20Boundaries.pdf

Middle School - https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/SY%202021-22%20Middle%20School%20Boundaries_0.pdf

Elementary School - https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/SY%202021-22%20Elementary%20School%20Boundaries.pdf

AAP Middle School - https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/SY%202021-22%20Middle%20Schools%20by%20Middle%20School.pdf

AAP Elementary School - https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/SY%202021-22%20Elementary%20Schools.pdf

What would you change about them? I would eliminate attendance islands for any school. As an example, I would make the tendril in Woodson High School part of Fairfax High School so that the Fairfax High School region is connected. I would also get rid of split feeders as much as possible. Everyone from one elementary school should go to the same middle school and everybody from one middle school should go to the same high school. Of course AAP complicates things, but I still think one AAP elementary school should feed into one AAP middle school.


At one point I saw a map that had all of these combined. What happened to that map?


It may be here: https://www.fcps.edu/about-fcps/planning-future/maps
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 17:47     Subject: How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
I would aim to minimize changes. People bought expecting to be able to go to a certain school. Or if you need to make massive change I would phase them in SLowly so those in school now age out before the changes happen.

I would keep existing attendance islands. I think they are used to diversify.
I would try to eliminate split feeders as that sucks for kids.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 17:46     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are so many factors that reduce the odds of major boundary changes. The PP's touch on a really big one, which is the impact of academic programs on enrollments. It turns into a big chicken vs. egg exercise. The boundary changes that you might make if a Carson isn't going to remain a mega-AAP center forever are very different than the changes you might make if it is.

The other big factor is the reluctance of the recent and current School Board to talk about sending kids to lower rated schools except in the most abstract terms. It's one thing for a Pat Hynes to talk generally about using boundaries as a tool to promote equity. It's another thing to actually do it - hasn't been done in FCPS for over a decade. And of course we've seen the members like Elaine Tholen who pay lip service to equity but make sure no apartments go to Langley.


I don't live near Langley and don't know the make up of the apartments nearby, etc. However, it has been suggested on this forum before that poor kids from Herndon be bused to Langley. That would be a disaster.

Busing does not work. Taking poor kids out of their community aggravates the problem. I taught in a bused school many years ago. Sounds good on paper. Not good in reality, and it does not promote "equity."


Right. But taking rich kids out of their neighborhoods to attend a school with other rich kids 10-15 miles away is fine. In fact, we'll even define the areas where the rich kids live as a single "community," if needed, even though it's not a separate town or city, just wealthy unincorporated parts of a county with over a million people.

Anyway, the point was that things usually only work in one direction in FCPS, regardless of the occasional lofty rhetoric.


1. The "rich" parents can manage to get their kids to school if they miss the bus. That is a fact.
2. The "rich" parents can ferry their kids from after school activities, sports, etc.
3. Do these "rich" kids all have jobs after school or are responsible for watching younger siblings? Doubtful.

Big, big difference.

Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 17:36     Subject: How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
This seems like a perfect problem for an optimization program. Something that takes the emotion out.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 17:29     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are so many factors that reduce the odds of major boundary changes. The PP's touch on a really big one, which is the impact of academic programs on enrollments. It turns into a big chicken vs. egg exercise. The boundary changes that you might make if a Carson isn't going to remain a mega-AAP center forever are very different than the changes you might make if it is.

The other big factor is the reluctance of the recent and current School Board to talk about sending kids to lower rated schools except in the most abstract terms. It's one thing for a Pat Hynes to talk generally about using boundaries as a tool to promote equity. It's another thing to actually do it - hasn't been done in FCPS for over a decade. And of course we've seen the members like Elaine Tholen who pay lip service to equity but make sure no apartments go to Langley.


I don't live near Langley and don't know the make up of the apartments nearby, etc. However, it has been suggested on this forum before that poor kids from Herndon be bused to Langley. That would be a disaster.

Busing does not work. Taking poor kids out of their community aggravates the problem. I taught in a bused school many years ago. Sounds good on paper. Not good in reality, and it does not promote "equity."


Right. But taking rich kids out of their neighborhoods to attend a school with other rich kids 10-15 miles away is fine. In fact, we'll even define the areas where the rich kids live as a single "community," if needed, even though it's not a separate town or city, just wealthy unincorporated parts of a county with over a million people.

Anyway, the point was that things usually only work in one direction in FCPS, regardless of the occasional lofty rhetoric.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 17:22     Subject: How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:McLean to Marshall and Langley

Marshall to Falls Church

Falls Church to Madison.

Some Madison to Langley

Some of these areas are obvious



And some Madison to South Lakes!


Falls Church to Madison does not make any sense.


DP. Not that it's going to happen, but there are some neighborhoods with Vienna addresses (west of Prosperity Avenue and north of Lee Highway) that are zoned to Madison. It wouldn't be insane if they were moved to Madison some day, but they'd also need to move out of Fairhill ES and Jackson MS.
Anonymous
Post 10/04/2021 17:21     Subject: Re:How would you change the FCPS boundary maps?
Anonymous wrote:There are so many factors that reduce the odds of major boundary changes. The PP's touch on a really big one, which is the impact of academic programs on enrollments. It turns into a big chicken vs. egg exercise. The boundary changes that you might make if a Carson isn't going to remain a mega-AAP center forever are very different than the changes you might make if it is.

The other big factor is the reluctance of the recent and current School Board to talk about sending kids to lower rated schools except in the most abstract terms. It's one thing for a Pat Hynes to talk generally about using boundaries as a tool to promote equity. It's another thing to actually do it - hasn't been done in FCPS for over a decade. And of course we've seen the members like Elaine Tholen who pay lip service to equity but make sure no apartments go to Langley.


I don't live near Langley and don't know the make up of the apartments nearby, etc. However, it has been suggested on this forum before that poor kids from Herndon be bused to Langley. That would be a disaster.

Busing does not work. Taking poor kids out of their community aggravates the problem. I taught in a bused school many years ago. Sounds good on paper. Not good in reality, and it does not promote "equity."