Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP, but I’d be surprised if the other children were shaken to their core by an outburst in class. Do the students need to read their victim impact statements in front of this girl? It’s such complete overkill.

These comments are so weird. Do people need to be “shaken to their core” to deserve an apology? Is an apology the same as “victim impact statements”?

I normally really appreciate this forum specifically but some of these responses are so dismissive and rude. I am the PP who posted earlier about how one reason I’m okay with this is that we do t know how many kids with IEPs are in this class, and there may be kids with anxiety or other issues who could have been really upset by what happened, necessitating a conversation and apology. I don’t get why everyone is assuming that the only person who matters is OP’s DD. I think she matters and deserves to be treated within the specifications of her IEP (which I don’t know). But I also don’t think the other kids are just a faceless audience here. They are kids! And young. Of course this could be upsetting. Sheesh.

I’m the PP you quoted and that’s a fair point. It was more in response to the idea that a) an apology the next day is an appropriate consequence for anyone, and b) anything less is letting the kid with a disability off the hook somehow.

I was using some hyperbole, because IME kids move on pretty quickly and this felt a lot more like an adult who needed to prove a point. But you’re right, context is everything.

I am the parent of a kid who does not move on quickly, FWIW, and is pretty sensitive to big disruptions during class activity. We are working with her on learning to move on from things more easily and to find ways to handle anxiety that might come from disruptions, especially anything that causes a change in schedule as she really struggles when the class deviates from a set plan. It's challenging.

I don't know for sure a class apology would be the right way to handle, but I would appreciate a teacher thinking about the situation holistically and considering both what OP's DD needs in that moment and also how the outburst could impact other kids and the class dynamic, and look for solutions. A force apology is not the right answer, but I could imagine good solutions that might integrate an apology. For me it would come down to if I trusted the teacher and how my child seemed to feel about it later. Which is why for me, the fact that OP's DD seemed fine with the apology later is significant. I can tell when when school events have caused more anxiety for my kid, even when she says she's okay. If she is convincingly saying something was no big deal, I would probably leave it alone.

The kid got upset, ripped paper. Big deal. She can apologize to the teacher, but not the entire class. Real question is what triggered the situation and how did the teacher respond to work with them on preventing this and during.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. It was the teacher’s idea and already happened/was reported to me by teacher. I was horrified. But after talking to DC it sounds more like she just said she was sorry during class but it wasn’t a huge deal. The meltdown was getting frustrated during an activity, shouting and ripping up her paper. It has happened two other times during this same activity in a few weeks. So it was using materials inappropriately. It is certainly possible there are other issues (I am starting to suspect ASD) but the low frustration tolerance and lack of emotional regulation can be ADHD. We are making an appointment to discuss medicating (dr wanted to wait until school was back full time in perso and we saw how things were going.) I definitely think it’s time.

She has IEP goals around managing frustration. I sympathize with the teacher about class being disrupted. I don’t want this to happen. But I don’t think shaming and blaming is going to work. Teacher also told me her behavior is causing at least one other kid to be unkind to her which the teacher is trying to manage/change.

There will be an IEP meeting. I want the teacher to get more support. But I’m also mad.

Reading this, she didn't hurt another student and got frustrated and ripped her own paper. Big deal about ripping her own paper. My concern is how the teacher responded when she say your daughter being frustrated and why didn't she step in when the frustration was starting or give daughter a way to ask for help. Kids struggle at this age. This is something easy to catch early and redirect.

I would get a full new evaluation and play therapy to work on the frustration and how to handle difficult situations and adults who aren't responsive.

The other kids being scared is an issue but its an entirely different issue separate from what OP is asking. I don't think you can let behavior slide and just say well, child had ADHD so its ok for the meltdowns. The question for me is what is going on in the classroom and is this child with a good teacher fit and getting their needs met. In ES, my child would shut down, not do the work and the teacher would not help or even send the work home for us to help and it was a bad situation. Even now in later years, my child is afraid to ask for help from teachers as they got so many negative responses in ES. The teacher has a lot of students but needs to check in with kids who need a bit more support and talk them through it, even in a different way if they aren't understanding. Or, is another child sitting near them bothering them? Hungry? Overtired? Medication issues? What is going on and how can this child's needs be better met to prevent this type of behavior. This child doesn't want to tantrum but didn't have a better way to handle it. Child also needs to be in therapy and support at home (but different issue as well).

I think an apology to the teacher is appropriate. And, if one child was targeted, that child but the entire class, NO. If my child remotely misbehaved, even something minor, I'd make them write and apology note and give it to the teacher (or email it) the next day.

But, in this case, there is more to it and what is going on. Their needs weren't met by this teacher and then they were shamed. Not a good start to the school year.

It's not a good look when special needs parents only worry about the needs of their own child and that others behaviors and actions can impact other kids who also may be having struggles.
I bet you would hate it if there was a child in your child's class who was disruptive and caused anxiety and stress to your child. With your child was hit or pushed or slapped or have their things torn apart. Yes the child doing that may have a impulse control or other needs but that doesn't mean that no other children in that class also has needs. And they do have the right to feel safe and secure in their classroom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP, but I’d be surprised if the other children were shaken to their core by an outburst in class. Do the students need to read their victim impact statements in front of this girl? It’s such complete overkill.

These comments are so weird. Do people need to be “shaken to their core” to deserve an apology? Is an apology the same as “victim impact statements”?

I normally really appreciate this forum specifically but some of these responses are so dismissive and rude. I am the PP who posted earlier about how one reason I’m okay with this is that we do t know how many kids with IEPs are in this class, and there may be kids with anxiety or other issues who could have been really upset by what happened, necessitating a conversation and apology. I don’t get why everyone is assuming that the only person who matters is OP’s DD. I think she matters and deserves to be treated within the specifications of her IEP (which I don’t know). But I also don’t think the other kids are just a faceless audience here. They are kids! And young. Of course this could be upsetting. Sheesh.

I’m the PP you quoted and that’s a fair point. It was more in response to the idea that a) an apology the next day is an appropriate consequence for anyone, and b) anything less is letting the kid with a disability off the hook somehow.

I was using some hyperbole, because IME kids move on pretty quickly and this felt a lot more like an adult who needed to prove a point. But you’re right, context is everything.

I am the parent of a kid who does not move on quickly, FWIW, and is pretty sensitive to big disruptions during class activity. We are working with her on learning to move on from things more easily and to find ways to handle anxiety that might come from disruptions, especially anything that causes a change in schedule as she really struggles when the class deviates from a set plan. It's challenging.

I don't know for sure a class apology would be the right way to handle, but I would appreciate a teacher thinking about the situation holistically and considering both what OP's DD needs in that moment and also how the outburst could impact other kids and the class dynamic, and look for solutions. A force apology is not the right answer, but I could imagine good solutions that might integrate an apology. For me it would come down to if I trusted the teacher and how my child seemed to feel about it later. Which is why for me, the fact that OP's DD seemed fine with the apology later is significant. I can tell when when school events have caused more anxiety for my kid, even when she says she's okay. If she is convincingly saying something was no big deal, I would probably leave it alone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP, but I’d be surprised if the other children were shaken to their core by an outburst in class. Do the students need to read their victim impact statements in front of this girl? It’s such complete overkill.

These comments are so weird. Do people need to be “shaken to their core” to deserve an apology? Is an apology the same as “victim impact statements”?

I normally really appreciate this forum specifically but some of these responses are so dismissive and rude. I am the PP who posted earlier about how one reason I’m okay with this is that we do t know how many kids with IEPs are in this class, and there may be kids with anxiety or other issues who could have been really upset by what happened, necessitating a conversation and apology. I don’t get why everyone is assuming that the only person who matters is OP’s DD. I think she matters and deserves to be treated within the specifications of her IEP (which I don’t know). But I also don’t think the other kids are just a faceless audience here. They are kids! And young. Of course this could be upsetting. Sheesh.

I’m the PP you quoted and that’s a fair point. It was more in response to the idea that a) an apology the next day is an appropriate consequence for anyone, and b) anything less is letting the kid with a disability off the hook somehow.

I was using some hyperbole, because IME kids move on pretty quickly and this felt a lot more like an adult who needed to prove a point. But you’re right, context is everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not PP, but I’d be surprised if the other children were shaken to their core by an outburst in class. Do the students need to read their victim impact statements in front of this girl? It’s such complete overkill.

These comments are so weird. Do people need to be “shaken to their core” to deserve an apology? Is an apology the same as “victim impact statements”?

I normally really appreciate this forum specifically but some of these responses are so dismissive and rude. I am the PP who posted earlier about how one reason I’m okay with this is that we do t know how many kids with IEPs are in this class, and there may be kids with anxiety or other issues who could have been really upset by what happened, necessitating a conversation and apology. I don’t get why everyone is assuming that the only person who matters is OP’s DD. I think she matters and deserves to be treated within the specifications of her IEP (which I don’t know). But I also don’t think the other kids are just a faceless audience here. They are kids! And young. Of course this could be upsetting. Sheesh.

as a mom who had dealt with years of this … honestly the feelings of the other kids are the least of my concern in the scenario. The way I address my concern for the other kids is by working my *ss off to get the IEP and services that will reduce the behavioral issues, thus improve everything for everyone. The need to understand apologies and impacts of behavior on other people, yes. But a forced apology the next day to the whole class? no way. that serves zero purpose except to mollify some misguided adult need to see visible penance. What’s next, a dunce cap?

Anonymous wrote:Not PP, but I’d be surprised if the other children were shaken to their core by an outburst in class. Do the students need to read their victim impact statements in front of this girl? It’s such complete overkill.

These comments are so weird. Do people need to be “shaken to their core” to deserve an apology? Is an apology the same as “victim impact statements”?

I normally really appreciate this forum specifically but some of these responses are so dismissive and rude. I am the PP who posted earlier about how one reason I’m okay with this is that we do t know how many kids with IEPs are in this class, and there may be kids with anxiety or other issues who could have been really upset by what happened, necessitating a conversation and apology. I don’t get why everyone is assuming that the only person who matters is OP’s DD. I think she matters and deserves to be treated within the specifications of her IEP (which I don’t know). But I also don’t think the other kids are just a faceless audience here. They are kids! And young. Of course this could be upsetting. Sheesh.

Apologize to the teacher in private or via a note, yes. But, no you don't sham a child in front of the entire class.

Not PP, but I’d be surprised if the other children were shaken to their core by an outburst in class. Do the students need to read their victim impact statements in front of this girl? It’s such complete overkill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see anything wrong with that.

Me neither. The opposite viewpoint is why we have a generation of adults that find an excuse for every misbehavior and nothing is ever their fault. But at least they don't feel "shame".

I have the opposite viewpoint. This is why we have a generation of adults that can't handle one little issue. Everybody around you has to be quiet, nice, polite every.single.solitary.moment or these little snowflakes need an apology. FFS! Life is imperfect. Just ignore the hand flapping, the kids with Tourette's, the child with ADHD that is tapping their fingers or the ASD kid the tore up a piece of paper.

All of this over a frustrated kid that ripped up some paper.

The.whole.class.needs.an.apology? Geez, GMAFB

Please ignore, go back to work, stop staring, do your work!

Op said it was a meltdown that included ripping up her paper, and it disrupted the class. What exactly are you picturing? A little huff of frustration and slowly silent tearing the paper?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry but having ADHD doesn't give you a free pass to treat others like crap and make them feel scared..
I think too often people try to gloss over bad behavior and say it was before disability and said just a s***** decision by a student

ma'am, this is the SN forum.

Oh sorry, I didn't know that meant no consequences or having to be a decent human. Forgot it was a green light to do whatever the hell you want.

I’m going to ignore the snark and say what I think PP was pointing out is that the parents on this board generally start from an understanding of developmental issues impact our kids abilities to handle certain situations. We know it takes our kids longer to meet the expectations of the rest of the world. It would be great if the rest of the world could meet us half way.

Anonymous wrote:My child has ADHD and has had pull outs with other kids with ADHD for a few years. I can tell you when this approach works and when it does not work.

When a classmate impulsively ripped up another child's work out of frustration, that child apologized. When my child clumsily ran around the room and knocked over another child's water bottle, my child verbally apologized to that girl and cleaned up the spill. He followed up with a written apology and offered to purchase a new one and replace whatever drink was inside. This is a 3rd grader so

When a different classmate had a meltdown because he is dyslexic and got frustrated by an assignment it would be incredibly counterproductive to have him apologize to anyone much less the whole class. He did not do that on purpose. It was humiliating enough.

This. If someone got hurt, you apologize to that kid after you’re calm. But the next day to the whole class? It doesn’t make sense on many levels.

My child has ADHD and has had pull outs with other kids with ADHD for a few years. I can tell you when this approach works and when it does not work.

When a classmate impulsively ripped up another child's work out of frustration, that child apologized. When my child clumsily ran around the room and knocked over another child's water bottle, my child verbally apologized to that girl and cleaned up the spill. He followed up with a written apology and offered to purchase a new one and replace whatever drink was inside. This is a 3rd grader so

When a different classmate had a meltdown because he is dyslexic and got frustrated by an assignment it would be incredibly counterproductive to have him apologize to anyone much less the whole class. He did not do that on purpose. It was humiliating enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of folks raising ADHD kids who will never, ever be able to function without a lot of social accommodation. Best of luck to you.

In our house everyone apologizes to each other, especially when one of us has lost control. Adults, children. It's not a punishment. It's a way of acknowledging how our actions impact others and making sure people understand we care about their well being. Whether you have ADHD or depression or anxiety or are just having a bad day or whatever. No one is entitled to yell and rip things up without some accountability.

I would have zero issues with this.

Do you have a child with autism who has meltdowns?

I mean, you should charge a million dollars for your miracle therapy of "no one is entitled to yell" and "accountability." maybe you would even get a nobel prize.

I think the child in question has a diagnosis of adhd. Screaming meltdowns that disrupt the class at school aren’t common with adhd. It may be that op’s child has a further undiagnosed condition that explains the behavior but I don’t think it’s odd for people not to take adhd as sufficient explanation. In any case the class wide apology is bad. Is it maybe a poorly executed restorative justice thing?

I am the original PP and yes to this. I think because this is the SN forum, some posters are applying this situation to their own kids who may have ASD. If this child had ASD or Tourets I think I'd be in total agreement. But usually ADHD improves a lot with treatment and no, huge meltdowns are not typical and would be an indication of another issue.

My experience with a typical ADHD kid (not super severe but not a mild case either) is that it's important not to excuse disruptive, rude, or disrespectful behavior with the ADHD. There's a big difference between what OP describes and a behavior like daydreaming in class, being unable to sit still, getting lost in hyper focus when they are supposed to be doing something else, chronic lateness or failure to complete assignments, etc. If a teacher asked my child to apologize to the class for any of that I would be justifiably unhappy. But if my kid yelled and ripped up paper, especially if he did it in a way that was upsetting or frightening for other students, I would have no issue with being asked to be accountable. That's not an acceptable way to manage frustration. I would also hope the teacher would be aware of what is going on and also seek to talk through some of the tools the child has learned or is learning to handle frustration. But an apology in that situation is not "apologizing for his disability" and he wouldn't interpret it that way. It's apologizing for being rude to his classmates and teacher. That's it.