Anonymous
Post 10/21/2021 14:57     Subject: What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but say you’re interested in ROTC at Princeton, do you apply directly to that ROTC program or do you apply to Princeton and if you get in then join ROTC?


I have the same question, too. Which game first - the chicken (ROTC acceptance) or the egg (Princeton acceptance)?

Also, if you do ROTC scholarship for undergrad and want to become a doctor, does that mean you no longer get a tuition benefit for med school?

I have two friends who had med school paid for by the military and then served their 8 year commitment right after med school (4 years residency + 4 years regular service as a military doctor). Frankly, they said it was better than going through the normal residency process (better pay, better hours).


If you did ROTC or the Academy you accrue payback years of service. If you then go to medical school or another professional school it tacks more years on to your payback. So, they will still fund your education, but you owe more time back.

For the military match, you can apply to any of the military spots open that year. Those are in military residency programs and there are civilian deferred/civilian sponsored spots. If you get one of the civilian spots you then apply through the national match. If you don't get selected for any of the military residency spots you picked and/or you don't match in the civilian match, you can do a general medical officer assignment and re-apply. Caveat being everyone has to do an intern year in something. They can't force you to take a residency you don't want. But if you don't match they will send you out to an operational billet somewhere (I was a flight surgeon for three years in between internship and residency, but I chose to do it because I wanted to fly jets) If you have the right mindset about it, those GMO jobs are cool for a few years esp as a young person- I took care of a special ops training squadron (PJs and Combat Controllers) and got to jump with them, did air evac for injured patients, flew in F-16s, led mass casualty exercises overseas, etc.

I had some friends who just did internship and did their payback years, then got out and applied to residency as a civilian. Lots who got their first choice right out of the gate. And some who wanted competitive specialties like Derm so they did 1-2 flight surgeon or dive officer tours until they got their residency of choice. You have to sign a contract agreeing to train in a residency or fellowship that outlines the amount of time it delays (or adds to) your payback.

Anonymous
Post 10/20/2021 15:33     Subject: What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You are all talking as if any young adult who graduates from college and then applies to the officer track is going to be accepted. In reality, they accept only a small percentage of applicants in all services. This is far from a sure thing just because your child wants it.


OK. But a solid performing student with no outside issues will be accepted fairly routinely. Outside issues or a substandard school record is an issue.


This is incorrect. It has gotten significantly more competitive in recent years. You are wrong.


What does that mean? Citation to support this? How many bachelor's degree holders are being denied annually and what are the most common reasons?
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2021 13:37     Subject: What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You are all talking as if any young adult who graduates from college and then applies to the officer track is going to be accepted. In reality, they accept only a small percentage of applicants in all services. This is far from a sure thing just because your child wants it.


OK. But a solid performing student with no outside issues will be accepted fairly routinely. Outside issues or a substandard school record is an issue.


This is incorrect. It has gotten significantly more competitive in recent years. You are wrong.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2021 13:35     Subject: Re:What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
I think with the overall drawdown strategy, the number of officers needed will dwindle. All West Point graduates get a commission. Not all ROTC grads get one. That will leave very low numbers for OCS. So another advantage for ROTC is it ups your chances of actually serving active duty if that's your goal.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2021 09:33     Subject: What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
Anonymous wrote:You are all talking as if any young adult who graduates from college and then applies to the officer track is going to be accepted. In reality, they accept only a small percentage of applicants in all services. This is far from a sure thing just because your child wants it.


OK. But a solid performing student with no outside issues will be accepted fairly routinely. Outside issues or a substandard school record is an issue.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2021 08:53     Subject: What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
You are all talking as if any young adult who graduates from college and then applies to the officer track is going to be accepted. In reality, they accept only a small percentage of applicants in all services. This is far from a sure thing just because your child wants it.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2021 08:13     Subject: What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
Anonymous wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but say you’re interested in ROTC at Princeton, do you apply directly to that ROTC program or do you apply to Princeton and if you get in then join ROTC?


Not ignorant, good question. One path is apply to Princeton, get in, and join ROTC (no scholarship). The other is to earn the scholarship before admission. Shrewd and often affluent families (i.e., their kid does not need $ to attend college) put their kid on the ROTC scholarship track b/c often college ROTC personnel will coordinate with the college Admissions office to get the scholarship recipient admission. In other words, it creates a hook.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2021 13:00     Subject: What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
Army Vet Parent of one WP and one ROTC.

OP - If your son is interested in possibly applying for OCS following graduation, a good compromise is to take ROTC without taking any scholarship - no commitment. A great way to decide if the career path is for you - you can apply for an ROTC commissions/scholarship in your sophomore or junior year if you decide it is for you.

One additional perk of ROTC enrollment - at my son's college the kids taking ROTC classes got priority for course enrollment - my kid never had a class he wanted that he did not get, even freshman year.
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2021 12:54     Subject: Re:What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
Anonymous wrote:Lot of misinformation on this thread. Speaking only from the experience of the Army. Some of this info might be dated, but it was accurate as of about 10 years ago:

If you have a college degree or are going to graduate, you can "enlist" with the purpose of attending Officer Candidate School. There's a selection process, and you don't have to sign anything binding before finding out if you have a slot (recruiters might say otherwise, but they're lying because they don't get bonuses for OCS enlistments, only regular enlisted). OCS is like 12-16 weeks and comes after attending Basic Training (used to be 9 weeks, no idea these days). You'll be paid at E-4 until you receive the commission.
ROTC can lead to scholarship money. One reason to do it is the sense of camaraderie. It's a big time commitment, but so are some sports and if that's what you like then good for you.

If you really care about making it a career, you should know there is an unspoken but obvious hierarchy in where Army officers come from. West Point > ROTC > OCS. Good people get promoted, and all lieutenants are treated (deservedly) like spoiled, dangerous amateurs, but as you get to mid-late career, wouldn't you know it, theres lots more of the former and fewer of the latter. Some of it is professional networks, some of it is snobbery. It's not right, but it is what it is. So that's a benefit to ROTC.

Now this is where some of my info might be dated. When an ROTC or West Point cadet graduates and is commissioned, and when an OCS candidate receives their commission, all three are mixed together and attend a course that used to be called BOLC II. This is where the three enlistment pathways merge, acclimatize and become "equals". After a few weeks of that they go their separate ways to their specialization schools. Armor, Infantry, Air Defense, etc.

Other branches might be different. I think the Marines might have an enlistment pathway that is more flexible, starting out enlisted for a few summers in the reserves while you're in college and then sending you to Officer Basic School or whatever they call it. That's what they told me, but at the time it sounded like the kind of recruiter pitch that gets bodies enlisted and then the "promises" about specific schools or becoming an officer kind of disappear. That's why I didn't pursue it.


I am only sure of Marines. You do not enlist. You get paid in OCS but you do not enlist. Your rank is Officer Candidate. Recruitment is handled by Officer Selection team not the regular enlisted recruiters. The summer program you are talking about is called the Platoon Leader's Course. That is one or two summers. You get paid. You do not then have to go to OCS. Again, you do not enlist. You are an officer candidate and you can drop at any point in time. No commitment until college graduation. No matter how you come into the Corp you go to the Basic School which is 26 weeks where you learn to be an officer and learn to be an infantryman and lead an infantry platoon. Then after that you go to your specialization school. For Marines, all together including OCS there are about 50 weeks of training before you are with troops.

There are pathways from enlisted to officer. But that is not the way most get to officer if you are in college. In the Marines while there are Naval Academy folks, OCS make up a large part and you can make a career.

Anonymous
Post 09/21/2021 12:53     Subject: Re:What's the benefit of ROTC versus just graduating from college and becoming an officer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lot of misinformation on this thread. Speaking only from the experience of the Army. Some of this info might be dated, but it was accurate as of about 10 years ago:

If you have a college degree or are going to graduate, you can "enlist" with the purpose of attending Officer Candidate School. There's a selection process, and you don't have to sign anything binding before finding out if you have a slot (recruiters might say otherwise, but they're lying because they don't get bonuses for OCS enlistments, only regular enlisted). OCS is like 12-16 weeks and comes after attending Basic Training (used to be 9 weeks, no idea these days). You'll be paid at E-4 until you receive the commission.
ROTC can lead to scholarship money. One reason to do it is the sense of camaraderie. It's a big time commitment, but so are some sports and if that's what you like then good for you.

If you really care about making it a career, you should know there is an unspoken but obvious hierarchy in where Army officers come from. West Point > ROTC > OCS. Good people get promoted, and all lieutenants are treated (deservedly) like spoiled, dangerous amateurs, but as you get to mid-late career, wouldn't you know it, theres lots more of the former and fewer of the latter. Some of it is professional networks, some of it is snobbery. It's not right, but it is what it is. So that's a benefit to ROTC.

Now this is where some of my info might be dated. When an ROTC or West Point cadet graduates and is commissioned, and when an OCS candidate receives their commission, all three are mixed together and attend a course that used to be called BOLC II. This is where the three enlistment pathways merge, acclimatize and become "equals". After a few weeks of that they go their separate ways to their specialization schools. Armor, Infantry, Air Defense, etc.

Other branches might be different. I think the Marines might have an enlistment pathway that is more flexible, starting out enlisted for a few summers in the reserves while you're in college and then sending you to Officer Basic School or whatever they call it. That's what they told me, but at the time it sounded like the kind of recruiter pitch that gets bodies enlisted and then the "promises" about specific schools or becoming an officer kind of disappear. That's why I didn't pursue it.


Question for you, PP. Do you have a rough estimate of the % of junior officers from West Point, ROTC, and OCS? Curious more than anything, but I would assume that OCS is the biggest bucket of the three?


PP here. West Point graduates consistently ~1000 per year. What percentage of the total Army officer corps that represents goes up and down, depending (between 1/6 and 1/4). ROTC is over 50% though. OCS is typically less than West Point. The Army keeps it around because 1) it provides a path to an officer's commission for enlisted personnel, and 2) it can scale quickly in the event of a shooting war.