Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

NP. I think you are very biased here with a wild imagination. You don't know what happened (no one on DCUM does since we were not there) and you are letting your bias come up with imaginary scenarios. Maybe the van came to a full stop and the girl couldn't stop on her bike and hit her head on the side of the van, which led to internal bleeding of the brain, which led to her demise. See how that works?

The only difference is that I don't believe my scenario, or yours, and I am not trying to place blame on the driver or the little girl.

This is a tragedy and instead of trying to demonize a whole set of people (drivers), which you are likely included in, let's try to show compassion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Sometimes everyone is doing their best and terrible things still happen. I highly doubt that you come to a complete 5 second stop and look both ways at Every Single Intersection. As drivers, we are conditioned to look for adult pedestrians moving at a predictable pace, which is why cyclists/power scooters using the sidewalk can be so dangerous. The same goes for a child moving quickly/unpredictably on a bike at dusk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That's actually not always true. You are making assumptions about what happened.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the operator of a machine that can kill very easily, I'm responsible for making sure that doesn't happen. If it does, I'm at fault. Period. Full stop. I'm sure the driver is distraught and I hope s/he and the family of the kid both find peace, but that doesn't change the moral responsibility.

From a legal standpoint, that's not the case.

https://www.popville.com/2021/09/tragic-5-year-old-killed-bicycle/#more-255563

Ugh! This happened to my mom. She hit a friend of mine who was cycling down a hill and didn’t stop at the intersection. My mom had stopped and proceeded but my friend was coming and didn’t stop. She broke her arm in the accident. I feel horrible for the little girl but also really bad for the cabbie. My mom was a mess for weeks and my friend was ok.

Prayers for this dear child’s soul. It is not safe to bike, scoot, or even walk in our city these days. I am so sorry it was a little girl, and not an aggressive driver, who lost their life.

Peace to the family. My heart aches for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the operator of a machine that can kill very easily, I'm responsible for making sure that doesn't happen. If it does, I'm at fault. Period. Full stop. I'm sure the driver is distraught and I hope s/he and the family of the kid both find peace, but that doesn't change the moral responsibility.

From a legal standpoint, that's not the case.

https://www.popville.com/2021/09/tragic-5-year-old-killed-bicycle/#more-255563

Of course it’s not the case. PP is clueless to think that’s a universal truth. Despite saying “full stop” as of that means it’s fact.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Anonymous wrote:As the operator of a machine that can kill very easily, I'm responsible for making sure that doesn't happen. If it does, I'm at fault. Period. Full stop. I'm sure the driver is distraught and I hope s/he and the family of the kid both find peace, but that doesn't change the moral responsibility.

From a legal standpoint, that's not the case.

https://www.popville.com/2021/09/tragic-5-year-old-killed-bicycle/#more-255563

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

Not to be graphic but the child could have gone under the vehicle.

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how the speed was enough to kill her if he had just stopped and was moving through the crosswalk. Just heartbreaking and terrifying - you cannot teach children that young - there is always something that can happen - we need infrastructure changes.

If she was not able to stop she may have been going pretty quickly and been thrown, not just knocked down. She could have hit her head or landed poorly on her neck. Or she could have been pulled under the wheel. So unthinkably tragic.

What kind of infrastructure changes would have prevented this horrific accident?

Maybe the parents are just tired, but sometimes the children on bikes or scooters or skates are so far ahead or behind the parents.

Heartbreaking, both for the parents and the driver. Sometimes an accident is just that, and nobody is to blame.

Anonymous wrote:To be clear, police reports state he did in fact come to a complete stop. I will say that if there is a child coming towards the intersection on a bike….seems prudent not to go even if technically you can.

Tha accident report said the child had trouble stopping, easy to see this happening with a 5yo. Poor baby and poor driver, who'll have to live with this.