Anonymous
09/30/2021 17:55
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:If the behaved parents had the courage to tell the unruly parents on THEIR own team to sit down and relax, this would all be taken care of, but most of us are cowards. You want yelling at referees to stop? Don't be a coward!
It's not cowadice, it's super fun to watch for the same reason people go to the zoo.
Anonymous
09/30/2021 11:41
Subject: Re:Bad ref
If the behaved parents had the courage to tell the unruly parents on THEIR own team to sit down and relax, this would all be taken care of, but most of us are cowards. You want yelling at referees to stop? Don't be a coward!
Anonymous
09/28/2021 15:47
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Since this is a ref thread, I concern developed this weekend.....
Our parent manager met in the field after the game to communicate with the ref/get paperwork/whatever they do.....
The ref said, "I gave you that one !!" Our manager didnt understand and asked what he meant and after a few comments back and forth as she was mildly confused, she realized he thought she was the parent manager of the other team.
The "one" he was referring to was a hand ball in the box. An indirect kick was the consequence.
Once the referee realized he was talking to the OTHER manager, he simply handed her paperwork and said nothing else and dismissed her.
His comments were clearly intended for the other team's manager.
During the game at the time of the hand ball and briefly, our coach contended the situation and voiced that it warranted a red card.
Another call, an off sides cal, tilted THEIR way: Our girls held a tight line . My DD was one of them. She was very sure it should have been called OFF. it resulted in a goal.
Game score was a tie and a well played game by both sides.
DRING the early first half of our game, AR was talking to other teams' players who had just played the game before. Same AR.
This incident makes me wonder if some refs, not all, I know for sure, are assigning themselves to their own teams games then tilting calls their teams way.
LOLz, is your DD a ref herself? Did she and her teammates play to the whistle? Missed calls are part of the game just as correct calls (or no-calls) that you and others think were incorrect also are part of the game.
And maybe the ref was referring to some other call in the game. Maybe the ref realized later he had made an error and wasn't actively trying to screw your team over in the moment.
Get a hobby, or another job such as getting a license and reffing yourself.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 15:40
Subject: Bad ref
Depends on the age and level of play really. Most refs will be reluctant to give anyone a red card for something like a handball in the box. Red cards will mean a game or two suspension. And, honestly, most handballs at younger ages are far from calculated events. But, once you decide not to call a handball what do you do? Play on if you can get away with it. But what if you can't? An indirect free kick in the box is obviously very very different than a penalty kick.
Really what should occur is the penalty kick and the player not be ejected from the game and not being subject to a game or two suspension for a red card. Issue a yellow if you want. Now -- once you get to a certain level -- say u14 -- then do a penalty kick and red but without any additional suspension. No real concern that lesser penalty will cause kids to repeat the same thing in the future.
Really what should occur is the penalty kick and the player not be ejected from the game and not being subject to a game or two suspension for a red card. Issue a yellow if you want. Now -- once you get to a certain level -- say u14 -- then do a penalty kick and red but without any additional suspension. No real concern that lesser penalty will cause kids to repeat the same thing in the future.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 15:14
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Since this is a ref thread, I concern developed this weekend.....
Our parent manager met in the field after the game to communicate with the ref/get paperwork/whatever they do.....
The ref said, "I gave you that one !!" Our manager didnt understand and asked what he meant and after a few comments back and forth as she was mildly confused, she realized he thought she was the parent manager of the other team.
The "one" he was referring to was a hand ball in the box. An indirect kick was the consequence.
Once the referee realized he was talking to the OTHER manager, he simply handed her paperwork and said nothing else and dismissed her.
His comments were clearly intended for the other team's manager.
During the game at the time of the hand ball and briefly, our coach contended the situation and voiced that it warranted a red card.
Another call, an off sides cal, tilted THEIR way: Our girls held a tight line . My DD was one of them. She was very sure it should have been called OFF. it resulted in a goal.
Game score was a tie and a well played game by both sides.
DRING the early first half of our game, AR was talking to other teams' players who had just played the game before. Same AR.
This incident makes me wonder if some refs, not all, I know for sure, are assigning themselves to their own teams games then tilting calls their teams way.
I hear you, some are siblings of team players. There should be a way to report the COI.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 15:05
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
FYI, there's on online form you can use to give feedback to refs in the VA-DC-MD area.
https://www.vadcsoccerref.com/referee-feedback-program
Looks like maybe only NCSL is using it though. Here's the form: http://reffeedback.com/
Thanks! I just sent compliments in for a ref!
I wish I could submit complaints for a certain ref from the Dulles tourney.
+1. The Dulles tournament was rough
Anonymous
09/28/2021 14:54
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Since this is a ref thread, I concern developed this weekend.....
Our parent manager met in the field after the game to communicate with the ref/get paperwork/whatever they do.....
The ref said, "I gave you that one !!" Our manager didnt understand and asked what he meant and after a few comments back and forth as she was mildly confused, she realized he thought she was the parent manager of the other team.
The "one" he was referring to was a hand ball in the box. An indirect kick was the consequence.
Once the referee realized he was talking to the OTHER manager, he simply handed her paperwork and said nothing else and dismissed her.
His comments were clearly intended for the other team's manager.
During the game at the time of the hand ball and briefly, our coach contended the situation and voiced that it warranted a red card.
Another call, an off sides cal, tilted THEIR way: Our girls held a tight line . My DD was one of them. She was very sure it should have been called OFF. it resulted in a goal.
Game score was a tie and a well played game by both sides.
DRING the early first half of our game, AR was talking to other teams' players who had just played the game before. Same AR.
This incident makes me wonder if some refs, not all, I know for sure, are assigning themselves to their own teams games then tilting calls their teams way.
Dunno. But I do know that Richmond refs sure seem to favor the home team.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 14:52
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can handle mistakes because we are all human, and the vast majority of reffing errors (other than the exception below) are debatable calls that don't meaningfully affect the outcome of a game. It happens, move on.
The only thing that really makes me nuts (but I still won't yell at a ref) is when an AR clearly does not understand the offsides rule. Unfortunately, that seems to be many of them, and it can be truly disruptive to the game. We have had ARs who call offsides based on where players are when the ball is received rather than when forward pass is made, who call it anytime the team on offense ends up with the ball on a forward pass regardless of player position (that was particularly egregious), and when the offsides player was on the opposite side of the field from the active play. It's really the only thing I consistently see refs getting wrong that has a meaningful impact on the game, and it's unfortunate because it's a pure training/education issue that the reffing body should be able to address.
This and not calling fouls leading to injuries. The rest is just noise pollution.
PP here, and I completely agree about letting a game get dangerous because refs aren’t calling fouls appropriately. There is a certain amount of discretion there and I don’t think refs should be too over-zealous in calling fouls, but they definitely need to be in control of the game to prevent avoidable injury.
In my experience this usually happens because the ref is too far from the play.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 14:33
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Since this is a ref thread, I concern developed this weekend.....
Our parent manager met in the field after the game to communicate with the ref/get paperwork/whatever they do.....
The ref said, "I gave you that one !!" Our manager didnt understand and asked what he meant and after a few comments back and forth as she was mildly confused, she realized he thought she was the parent manager of the other team.
The "one" he was referring to was a hand ball in the box. An indirect kick was the consequence.
Once the referee realized he was talking to the OTHER manager, he simply handed her paperwork and said nothing else and dismissed her.
His comments were clearly intended for the other team's manager.
During the game at the time of the hand ball and briefly, our coach contended the situation and voiced that it warranted a red card.
Another call, an off sides cal, tilted THEIR way: Our girls held a tight line . My DD was one of them. She was very sure it should have been called OFF. it resulted in a goal.
Game score was a tie and a well played game by both sides.
DRING the early first half of our game, AR was talking to other teams' players who had just played the game before. Same AR.
This incident makes me wonder if some refs, not all, I know for sure, are assigning themselves to their own teams games then tilting calls their teams way.
Our parent manager met in the field after the game to communicate with the ref/get paperwork/whatever they do.....
The ref said, "I gave you that one !!" Our manager didnt understand and asked what he meant and after a few comments back and forth as she was mildly confused, she realized he thought she was the parent manager of the other team.
The "one" he was referring to was a hand ball in the box. An indirect kick was the consequence.
Once the referee realized he was talking to the OTHER manager, he simply handed her paperwork and said nothing else and dismissed her.
His comments were clearly intended for the other team's manager.
During the game at the time of the hand ball and briefly, our coach contended the situation and voiced that it warranted a red card.
Another call, an off sides cal, tilted THEIR way: Our girls held a tight line . My DD was one of them. She was very sure it should have been called OFF. it resulted in a goal.
Game score was a tie and a well played game by both sides.
DRING the early first half of our game, AR was talking to other teams' players who had just played the game before. Same AR.
This incident makes me wonder if some refs, not all, I know for sure, are assigning themselves to their own teams games then tilting calls their teams way.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 13:54
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can handle mistakes because we are all human, and the vast majority of reffing errors (other than the exception below) are debatable calls that don't meaningfully affect the outcome of a game. It happens, move on.
The only thing that really makes me nuts (but I still won't yell at a ref) is when an AR clearly does not understand the offsides rule. Unfortunately, that seems to be many of them, and it can be truly disruptive to the game. We have had ARs who call offsides based on where players are when the ball is received rather than when forward pass is made, who call it anytime the team on offense ends up with the ball on a forward pass regardless of player position (that was particularly egregious), and when the offsides player was on the opposite side of the field from the active play. It's really the only thing I consistently see refs getting wrong that has a meaningful impact on the game, and it's unfortunate because it's a pure training/education issue that the reffing body should be able to address.
This and not calling fouls leading to injuries. The rest is just noise pollution.
PP here, and I completely agree about letting a game get dangerous because refs aren’t calling fouls appropriately. There is a certain amount of discretion there and I don’t think refs should be too over-zealous in calling fouls, but they definitely need to be in control of the game to prevent avoidable injury.
And that's the hard part. Often, half the parents want the ref to let them play and half want a foul.
It's definitely hard, and I don't envy the refs having to make those calls. Sometimes fouls are really clear and egregious, but often time they're not. Sometimes it may look like a foul but it was actually a clean play (such as when you have a taller kid come together with a smaller kid and the smaller kid falls while the taller kid stays on their feet). There are things that should be red flags, like if the same kid keeps ending up in borderline situations, but it's also hard to expect refs to keep track of that stuff along with everything else they're doing during a game.
I think safety should be a high priority (especially at the youth level), but given the fuzzier nature of fouls at times, I am inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to a ref who appears to be making a good faith effort to get it right.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 12:29
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can handle mistakes because we are all human, and the vast majority of reffing errors (other than the exception below) are debatable calls that don't meaningfully affect the outcome of a game. It happens, move on.
The only thing that really makes me nuts (but I still won't yell at a ref) is when an AR clearly does not understand the offsides rule. Unfortunately, that seems to be many of them, and it can be truly disruptive to the game. We have had ARs who call offsides based on where players are when the ball is received rather than when forward pass is made, who call it anytime the team on offense ends up with the ball on a forward pass regardless of player position (that was particularly egregious), and when the offsides player was on the opposite side of the field from the active play. It's really the only thing I consistently see refs getting wrong that has a meaningful impact on the game, and it's unfortunate because it's a pure training/education issue that the reffing body should be able to address.
This and not calling fouls leading to injuries. The rest is just noise pollution.
PP here, and I completely agree about letting a game get dangerous because refs aren’t calling fouls appropriately. There is a certain amount of discretion there and I don’t think refs should be too over-zealous in calling fouls, but they definitely need to be in control of the game to prevent avoidable injury.
And that's the hard part. Often, half the parents want the ref to let them play and half want a foul.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 12:23
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can handle mistakes because we are all human, and the vast majority of reffing errors (other than the exception below) are debatable calls that don't meaningfully affect the outcome of a game. It happens, move on.
The only thing that really makes me nuts (but I still won't yell at a ref) is when an AR clearly does not understand the offsides rule. Unfortunately, that seems to be many of them, and it can be truly disruptive to the game. We have had ARs who call offsides based on where players are when the ball is received rather than when forward pass is made, who call it anytime the team on offense ends up with the ball on a forward pass regardless of player position (that was particularly egregious), and when the offsides player was on the opposite side of the field from the active play. It's really the only thing I consistently see refs getting wrong that has a meaningful impact on the game, and it's unfortunate because it's a pure training/education issue that the reffing body should be able to address.
This and not calling fouls leading to injuries. The rest is just noise pollution.
PP here, and I completely agree about letting a game get dangerous because refs aren’t calling fouls appropriately. There is a certain amount of discretion there and I don’t think refs should be too over-zealous in calling fouls, but they definitely need to be in control of the game to prevent avoidable injury.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 12:08
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:I can handle mistakes because we are all human, and the vast majority of reffing errors (other than the exception below) are debatable calls that don't meaningfully affect the outcome of a game. It happens, move on.
The only thing that really makes me nuts (but I still won't yell at a ref) is when an AR clearly does not understand the offsides rule. Unfortunately, that seems to be many of them, and it can be truly disruptive to the game. We have had ARs who call offsides based on where players are when the ball is received rather than when forward pass is made, who call it anytime the team on offense ends up with the ball on a forward pass regardless of player position (that was particularly egregious), and when the offsides player was on the opposite side of the field from the active play. It's really the only thing I consistently see refs getting wrong that has a meaningful impact on the game, and it's unfortunate because it's a pure training/education issue that the reffing body should be able to address.
This and not calling fouls leading to injuries. The rest is just noise pollution.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 12:00
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:One of the "biggest" assignors sent out an email last week reminding all referees to wear the proper uniform. I was thinking....is this the biggest complaint you are getting? If so, that's great, but I doubt that's the biggest complaint. How about telling all the referees that you assign games to to be on time, cover the field better to make better calls (if that means get in better shape, then get in better shape), know the rules of competition for the games you are reffing, brush up on the Laws of the game, .... I was just like....wear the proper uniform??? That's it? I thought she could do better than that. Assignors need to get out to fields or send someone out to fields to check on refs and make sure they are doing a good job and give some feedback. I was doing a U10 girls rec game a few weeks ago and the assignor for that club had a mentor at the games giving advice to all the referees but yet, I've never seen a "mentor" at a"travel" game yet.
It's symbiotic....better reffing will help shut parents and coaches up. Parents and coaches shutting up will help get refs onto the field. There are always emails going out looking for referees. I asked some of my kid's teammates why they don't ref and it's always because they don't want to listen to the parents.
How about you and everyone else that complains about the referees to go get your license? See how it easy it is to ref a game.
I am a ref! I mentioned that I was doing a game recently and mentors showed up. That implied I was a ref but maybe I wasn't clear enough. My post was essentially complaining about my peers and one of the assignors. And you are right. It's not easy. It's very difficult...but refs show up late, don't know the rules of the game (subbing, length of halves, etc), the Laws, don't move on the line or from the center circle....it's frustrating for everyone....yes, even other refs.
Anonymous
09/28/2021 11:18
Subject: Re:Bad ref
Anonymous wrote:
FYI, there's on online form you can use to give feedback to refs in the VA-DC-MD area.
https://www.vadcsoccerref.com/referee-feedback-program
Looks like maybe only NCSL is using it though. Here's the form: http://reffeedback.com/
Thanks! I just sent compliments in for a ref!
I wish I could submit complaints for a certain ref from the Dulles tourney.