Anonymous wrote:Dana Bash protested at Politics and Prose. Video: https://dcist.com/story/19/04/29/white-nationalists-interrupt-book-talk-at-politics-and-prose/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dana Bash protested at Politics and Prose. Video: https://dcist.com/story/19/04/29/white-nationalists-interrupt-book-talk-at-politics-and-prose/

These anti- Israel
protestors are hysterical
and out of control.
Looks like a cult

Anonymous wrote:Dana Bash protested at Politics and Prose. Video: https://dcist.com/story/19/04/29/white-nationalists-interrupt-book-talk-at-politics-and-prose/

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the violent people in masks are really Jewish agitators, why don't the other protesters de-mask them and show the world who they really are?

It is an antisemitic trope to imply that protestors need to mask in order to avoid retribution from the pro Israel American community for voicing their views.

I’d love to discuss this more. Doxing is a real thing with real consequences. I personally know of a periodontist in MA who was fired for removing an illegally posted hostage poster in Nov 23 after a photo was taken of her and posted by pro Isreal supporters.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/15/business/palestinian-americans-activists-doxxing

I don’t know who the masked people are at the student rallies. But I could see if I was one of them I would want to hide my face for fear of retribution which I know has been taken in the past.

How exactly is that antisemitism?

If the poster was put up illegally, call the non-emergency police number. Don't look like a Hamas-sympathizing a-hole by removing it yourself.

+1

Talk about disingenuous.

The poster wasn't removed b/c it was "illegally posted". The poster was removed b/c the periodontist didn't want people to sympathize with the hostages.

100% deserved to be fired.

Someone deserved to lose their job because they removed a poster?

Nah - I wouldn’t have done it, but justifying someone’s life being upended for the act of removing a poster (regardless what that means to you) is 100,000x more outrageous than what she actually did. The people that doxxed her are scumbags, and you’re a scumbag for trying to justify it.

And if you can’t see why removing a poster in Massachusetts that involves people in Israel doesn’t affect anyone at all at the level of someone losing their job, further shame on you. Some people refuse to justify the outrageous history of Israel’s atrocities, knowing that nobody puts up posters for the countless victims of Israel barbarity over the years.

You have a good point that doxxing is dangerous. But I don't think that suffering consequences for your actions in public is necessarily out of the question.

The posters are an awareness campaign about the hostages. What is the point in tearing them down, if not to downplay the crimes of Hamas? Most people would just walk past it. I came of age when social media was new and we were drilled and drilled about being careful what we posted online, because it could affect our future employment. They told us in college not to post pictures of ourselves plastered at frat parties, because potential employers might find it years later and pass on interviewing us. In the same vein, how you act in public spaces is out there for employers to see and judge accordingly. It might not be right or fair, but it is how it is.

Why do you assume you know the reason she took them down?

I’m the previous poster and she had two reasons for removing the poster:

1) she felt that the posters placed higher value on Israeli lives than Palestinian and was offended by that.

2) she is from the region and thought she was safe in her new country. The posters made her feel that the conflict would now spill over into the US and she and her kids would be at risk of being grouped together with Hamas. Yes, she has suffered from Trauma and her instinctive flight or flight response was to remove a poster.

Did she say why she was taking them down? I haven't been able to find a statement from her about her motivations anywhere.

1. The posters don't have relativism built into them. Hamas took people from their beds and from a music festival and is holding them hostage. It's just a fact. The Palestinian people have also suffered horrific deaths; the hostage posters don't negate that fact either.

2. Feeling safe in America and fear of the conflict "spilling over into the US" ...Like Israelis and Jews literally seeing and hearing symbols of the terrorists calling for their death all over our city streets and college campuses? Pro-Palestine protesters are literally chanting "we're gonna bring the war home" at their rallies now. Hostage posters are not that.

With the over-the-top antics of the U.S. political class catering to Jewish Americans, do you sincerely expect anyone to believe that there are genuine fears of ANYTHING approaching rampant harm to Jews in America? I'm serious. As far as I can see, the only population completely insulated from risk of harm in America are the same people you want to convince us are actually the most vulnerable?

Are you not seeing the things that others see? FFS, the sitting Secretary of State literally threatened a body of judges in the ICC / ICJ over their fully justified hearing of a criminal complaint against Netanyahu! Members of the U.S. congress fall all over themselves to pledge loyalty to Israel, and won't even do the same for their constituents here in America.

You sincerely think we're going to see Jews attacked en masse in the U.S. without the National Guard called out to smash skulls and settle scores? Wake up.

We're talking about feelings. IF the dentist tore down the posters because she FELT threatened and we're supposed to take her fear as justification for her actions, then we also have to take seriously the feelings of Jews who encounter hate.

I wouldn’t want someone who tears down posters to be my dentist and I am half Arab. F her

She’s dumb for that. The Arab side of my family went through lots of hijab grabbing post 9/11, and it was horrible because women really just wore that to symbolize they were modest dressers and wanted to relax in public from being a beauty billboard but they had to be on guard at all times.

Grabbing a poster down is not what someone that’s a doctor should do. She should go work in Gaza if she’s that radicalized to tear down posters of Hamas hostages

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the violent people in masks are really Jewish agitators, why don't the other protesters de-mask them and show the world who they really are?

It is an antisemitic trope to imply that protestors need to mask in order to avoid retribution from the pro Israel American community for voicing their views.

I’d love to discuss this more. Doxing is a real thing with real consequences. I personally know of a periodontist in MA who was fired for removing an illegally posted hostage poster in Nov 23 after a photo was taken of her and posted by pro Isreal supporters.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/15/business/palestinian-americans-activists-doxxing

I don’t know who the masked people are at the student rallies. But I could see if I was one of them I would want to hide my face for fear of retribution which I know has been taken in the past.

How exactly is that antisemitism?

If the poster was put up illegally, call the non-emergency police number. Don't look like a Hamas-sympathizing a-hole by removing it yourself.

+1

Talk about disingenuous.

The poster wasn't removed b/c it was "illegally posted". The poster was removed b/c the periodontist didn't want people to sympathize with the hostages.

100% deserved to be fired.

Someone deserved to lose their job because they removed a poster?

Nah - I wouldn’t have done it, but justifying someone’s life being upended for the act of removing a poster (regardless what that means to you) is 100,000x more outrageous than what she actually did. The people that doxxed her are scumbags, and you’re a scumbag for trying to justify it.

And if you can’t see why removing a poster in Massachusetts that involves people in Israel doesn’t affect anyone at all at the level of someone losing their job, further shame on you. Some people refuse to justify the outrageous history of Israel’s atrocities, knowing that nobody puts up posters for the countless victims of Israel barbarity over the years.

You have a good point that doxxing is dangerous. But I don't think that suffering consequences for your actions in public is necessarily out of the question.

The posters are an awareness campaign about the hostages. What is the point in tearing them down, if not to downplay the crimes of Hamas? Most people would just walk past it. I came of age when social media was new and we were drilled and drilled about being careful what we posted online, because it could affect our future employment. They told us in college not to post pictures of ourselves plastered at frat parties, because potential employers might find it years later and pass on interviewing us. In the same vein, how you act in public spaces is out there for employers to see and judge accordingly. It might not be right or fair, but it is how it is.

Why do you assume you know the reason she took them down?

I’m the previous poster and she had two reasons for removing the poster:

1) she felt that the posters placed higher value on Israeli lives than Palestinian and was offended by that.

2) she is from the region and thought she was safe in her new country. The posters made her feel that the conflict would now spill over into the US and she and her kids would be at risk of being grouped together with Hamas. Yes, she has suffered from Trauma and her instinctive flight or flight response was to remove a poster.

Did she say why she was taking them down? I haven't been able to find a statement from her about her motivations anywhere.

1. The posters don't have relativism built into them. Hamas took people from their beds and from a music festival and is holding them hostage. It's just a fact. The Palestinian people have also suffered horrific deaths; the hostage posters don't negate that fact either.

2. Feeling safe in America and fear of the conflict "spilling over into the US" ...Like Israelis and Jews literally seeing and hearing symbols of the terrorists calling for their death all over our city streets and college campuses? Pro-Palestine protesters are literally chanting "we're gonna bring the war home" at their rallies now. Hostage posters are not that.

With the over-the-top antics of the U.S. political class catering to Jewish Americans, do you sincerely expect anyone to believe that there are genuine fears of ANYTHING approaching rampant harm to Jews in America? I'm serious. As far as I can see, the only population completely insulated from risk of harm in America are the same people you want to convince us are actually the most vulnerable?

Are you not seeing the things that others see? FFS, the sitting Secretary of State literally threatened a body of judges in the ICC / ICJ over their fully justified hearing of a criminal complaint against Netanyahu! Members of the U.S. congress fall all over themselves to pledge loyalty to Israel, and won't even do the same for their constituents here in America.

You sincerely think we're going to see Jews attacked en masse in the U.S. without the National Guard called out to smash skulls and settle scores? Wake up.

We're talking about feelings. IF the dentist tore down the posters because she FELT threatened and we're supposed to take her fear as justification for her actions, then we also have to take seriously the feelings of Jews who encounter hate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the US going to talk about the American woman shot dead at anti-settler protest in West Bank?

‘ The protesters and activists, including Pollak and the woman, retreated from the hill and the clashes subdued, he said. He then watched as two soldiers standing on the roof of a nearby home trained a gun in the group’s direction and shot at them. He saw the flares leave the nozzle of the gun when the shots rang out. He said the woman was about 10 or 15 meters (yards) behind him when the shots were fired.

He then saw her “lying on the ground, next to an olive tree, bleeding to death,” he said.‘

American woman has died after witnesses said she was shot by Israeli soldiers while taking part in a protest against settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank.
Aysenur Ezgi Eygi, a 26-year-old born in Turkey, was a volunteer with the anti-occupation International Solidarity Movement. She died in hospital on Friday after being shot in the head during a regular protest in Beita near Nablus, the Palestinian news agency Wafa reported.
Witnesses at the scene said she was shot by members of the Israel Defense Forces positioned in a nearby field. The IDF has said it is investigating the report. The US state department is “urgently” gathering more information about Eygi’s “tragic” death, its spokesperson, Matthew Miller, said, without immediately assigning responsibility.
The White House said in a statement it was “deeply disturbed” by the killing and seeking an Israeli investigation.
For more Guardian journalism follow this channel
Follow the Guardian
A paramedic, Fayez Abdul Jabbar, told Al-Quds News Network: “We usually have weekly confrontations at Jabal Sabeeh. During these confrontations, the army fired two live bullets: one hit a foreigner, and the other hit another person, whose injury is less severe.” Eygi was treated in the car on the way to hospital, he added. Fouad Nafaa, the head of the Rafidia hospital in Nablus, said doctors tried to resuscitate her but the patient died on the operating table.
The rise in violent attacks by Israeli settlers on Palestinian villages in the West Bank has caused growing anger among Western allies of Israel, including the United States, which has imposed sanctions on a number of individuals.
Friday’s incident comes a few weeks after around 100 settlers attacked the village of Jit, in the northern West Bank, drawing worldwide condemnation and a promise from the government of swift action against anyone found guilty of violence.
Palestinians and rights groups regularly accuse Israeli forces of standing by as attacks take place and even joining in themselves.

She’s not white Christian on a trip to see the manger of baby Jesus or whatever. She’s Muslim American so Israel knows America won’t care.

Most Muslims or Palestinian Americans don’t go to the West Bank even though jerusalem is a holy site because they understand it’s “at your own risk”

It’s as safe in West Bank aka Israel as a Klan rally or white supremacist sundown town.

Soon enough, Jewish peace activists will be killed too. Netanyahus aligned with right wing extremists who support inter violence against leftists

This. If it was Iran instead of Israel, the unit responsible for her death would have a few cruise missiles crashing into their barracks tonight, but it's Israel so Blinkin will say we'll investigate and hope people forget

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the US going to talk about the American woman shot dead at anti-settler protest in West Bank?

‘ The protesters and activists, including Pollak and the woman, retreated from the hill and the clashes subdued, he said. He then watched as two soldiers standing on the roof of a nearby home trained a gun in the group’s direction and shot at them. He saw the flares leave the nozzle of the gun when the shots rang out. He said the woman was about 10 or 15 meters (yards) behind him when the shots were fired.

He then saw her “lying on the ground, next to an olive tree, bleeding to death,” he said.‘

American woman has died after witnesses said she was shot by Israeli soldiers while taking part in a protest against settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank.
Aysenur Ezgi Eygi, a 26-year-old born in Turkey, was a volunteer with the anti-occupation International Solidarity Movement. She died in hospital on Friday after being shot in the head during a regular protest in Beita near Nablus, the Palestinian news agency Wafa reported.
Witnesses at the scene said she was shot by members of the Israel Defense Forces positioned in a nearby field. The IDF has said it is investigating the report. The US state department is “urgently” gathering more information about Eygi’s “tragic” death, its spokesperson, Matthew Miller, said, without immediately assigning responsibility.
The White House said in a statement it was “deeply disturbed” by the killing and seeking an Israeli investigation.
For more Guardian journalism follow this channel
Follow the Guardian
A paramedic, Fayez Abdul Jabbar, told Al-Quds News Network: “We usually have weekly confrontations at Jabal Sabeeh. During these confrontations, the army fired two live bullets: one hit a foreigner, and the other hit another person, whose injury is less severe.” Eygi was treated in the car on the way to hospital, he added. Fouad Nafaa, the head of the Rafidia hospital in Nablus, said doctors tried to resuscitate her but the patient died on the operating table.
The rise in violent attacks by Israeli settlers on Palestinian villages in the West Bank has caused growing anger among Western allies of Israel, including the United States, which has imposed sanctions on a number of individuals.
Friday’s incident comes a few weeks after around 100 settlers attacked the village of Jit, in the northern West Bank, drawing worldwide condemnation and a promise from the government of swift action against anyone found guilty of violence.
Palestinians and rights groups regularly accuse Israeli forces of standing by as attacks take place and even joining in themselves.

She’s not white Christian on a trip to see the manger of baby Jesus or whatever. She’s Muslim American so Israel knows America won’t care.

Most Muslims or Palestinian Americans don’t go to the West Bank even though jerusalem is a holy site because they understand it’s “at your own risk”

It’s as safe in West Bank aka Israel as a Klan rally or white supremacist sundown town.

Soon enough, Jewish peace activists will be killed too. Netanyahus aligned with right wing extremists who support inter violence against leftists

Anonymous wrote:Is the US going to talk about the American woman shot dead at anti-settler protest in West Bank?

‘ The protesters and activists, including Pollak and the woman, retreated from the hill and the clashes subdued, he said. He then watched as two soldiers standing on the roof of a nearby home trained a gun in the group’s direction and shot at them. He saw the flares leave the nozzle of the gun when the shots rang out. He said the woman was about 10 or 15 meters (yards) behind him when the shots were fired.

He then saw her “lying on the ground, next to an olive tree, bleeding to death,” he said.‘

American woman has died after witnesses said she was shot by Israeli soldiers while taking part in a protest against settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank.
Aysenur Ezgi Eygi, a 26-year-old born in Turkey, was a volunteer with the anti-occupation International Solidarity Movement. She died in hospital on Friday after being shot in the head during a regular protest in Beita near Nablus, the Palestinian news agency Wafa reported.
Witnesses at the scene said she was shot by members of the Israel Defense Forces positioned in a nearby field. The IDF has said it is investigating the report. The US state department is “urgently” gathering more information about Eygi’s “tragic” death, its spokesperson, Matthew Miller, said, without immediately assigning responsibility.
The White House said in a statement it was “deeply disturbed” by the killing and seeking an Israeli investigation.
For more Guardian journalism follow this channel
Follow the Guardian
A paramedic, Fayez Abdul Jabbar, told Al-Quds News Network: “We usually have weekly confrontations at Jabal Sabeeh. During these confrontations, the army fired two live bullets: one hit a foreigner, and the other hit another person, whose injury is less severe.” Eygi was treated in the car on the way to hospital, he added. Fouad Nafaa, the head of the Rafidia hospital in Nablus, said doctors tried to resuscitate her but the patient died on the operating table.
The rise in violent attacks by Israeli settlers on Palestinian villages in the West Bank has caused growing anger among Western allies of Israel, including the United States, which has imposed sanctions on a number of individuals.
Friday’s incident comes a few weeks after around 100 settlers attacked the village of Jit, in the northern West Bank, drawing worldwide condemnation and a promise from the government of swift action against anyone found guilty of violence.
Palestinians and rights groups regularly accuse Israeli forces of standing by as attacks take place and even joining in themselves.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the violent people in masks are really Jewish agitators, why don't the other protesters de-mask them and show the world who they really are?

It is an antisemitic trope to imply that protestors need to mask in order to avoid retribution from the pro Israel American community for voicing their views.

I’d love to discuss this more. Doxing is a real thing with real consequences. I personally know of a periodontist in MA who was fired for removing an illegally posted hostage poster in Nov 23 after a photo was taken of her and posted by pro Isreal supporters.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/15/business/palestinian-americans-activists-doxxing

I don’t know who the masked people are at the student rallies. But I could see if I was one of them I would want to hide my face for fear of retribution which I know has been taken in the past.

How exactly is that antisemitism?

If the poster was put up illegally, call the non-emergency police number. Don't look like a Hamas-sympathizing a-hole by removing it yourself.

+1

Talk about disingenuous.

The poster wasn't removed b/c it was "illegally posted". The poster was removed b/c the periodontist didn't want people to sympathize with the hostages.

100% deserved to be fired.

Someone deserved to lose their job because they removed a poster?

Nah - I wouldn’t have done it, but justifying someone’s life being upended for the act of removing a poster (regardless what that means to you) is 100,000x more outrageous than what she actually did. The people that doxxed her are scumbags, and you’re a scumbag for trying to justify it.

And if you can’t see why removing a poster in Massachusetts that involves people in Israel doesn’t affect anyone at all at the level of someone losing their job, further shame on you. Some people refuse to justify the outrageous history of Israel’s atrocities, knowing that nobody puts up posters for the countless victims of Israel barbarity over the years.

You have a good point that doxxing is dangerous. But I don't think that suffering consequences for your actions in public is necessarily out of the question.

The posters are an awareness campaign about the hostages. What is the point in tearing them down, if not to downplay the crimes of Hamas? Most people would just walk past it. I came of age when social media was new and we were drilled and drilled about being careful what we posted online, because it could affect our future employment. They told us in college not to post pictures of ourselves plastered at frat parties, because potential employers might find it years later and pass on interviewing us. In the same vein, how you act in public spaces is out there for employers to see and judge accordingly. It might not be right or fair, but it is how it is.

Why do you assume you know the reason she took them down?

I’m the previous poster and she had two reasons for removing the poster:

1) she felt that the posters placed higher value on Israeli lives than Palestinian and was offended by that.

2) she is from the region and thought she was safe in her new country. The posters made her feel that the conflict would now spill over into the US and she and her kids would be at risk of being grouped together with Hamas. Yes, she has suffered from Trauma and her instinctive flight or flight response was to remove a poster.

Did she say why she was taking them down? I haven't been able to find a statement from her about her motivations anywhere.

1. The posters don't have relativism built into them. Hamas took people from their beds and from a music festival and is holding them hostage. It's just a fact. The Palestinian people have also suffered horrific deaths; the hostage posters don't negate that fact either.

2. Feeling safe in America and fear of the conflict "spilling over into the US" ...Like Israelis and Jews literally seeing and hearing symbols of the terrorists calling for their death all over our city streets and college campuses? Pro-Palestine protesters are literally chanting "we're gonna bring the war home" at their rallies now. Hostage posters are not that.

With the over-the-top antics of the U.S. political class catering to Jewish Americans, do you sincerely expect anyone to believe that there are genuine fears of ANYTHING approaching rampant harm to Jews in America? I'm serious. As far as I can see, the only population completely insulated from risk of harm in America are the same people you want to convince us are actually the most vulnerable?

Are you not seeing the things that others see? FFS, the sitting Secretary of State literally threatened a body of judges in the ICC / ICJ over their fully justified hearing of a criminal complaint against Netanyahu! Members of the U.S. congress fall all over themselves to pledge loyalty to Israel, and won't even do the same for their constituents here in America.

You sincerely think we're going to see Jews attacked en masse in the U.S. without the National Guard called out to smash skulls and settle scores? Wake up.

We're talking about feelings. IF the dentist tore down the posters because she FELT threatened and we're supposed to take her fear as justification for her actions, then we also have to take seriously the feelings of Jews who encounter hate.

Yes. I take seriously the feelings of Jewish Americans AND the feelings of Palestinian Americans. BOTh. Not one side.

If someone wants to put up posters of hostages AND Palestinian victims. And hold a vigil for Palestinians please lmk. I’m there! But if you want to say there is a “right” side in this mess or only one victim or that the US has to continue to send weapons to Israel without conditions - nope. Disagree.

If I were putting up posters of the victims of gun violence in order to advocate for stronger gun laws in this country, you wouldn't ask me to ALSO put up posters of responsible gun owners.

I can advocate for the hostages and believe that Palestinians deserve not to live in a warzone. But I don't have to do it in the same breath. The pro-Palestine protesters certainly aren't ALSO calling for the release of the hostages at their rallies.

Maybe you're right and we SHOULD be doing that. But people are particular by nature, not universalist. That said, increasingly, the call to bring the hostages home is shining a light on Bibi's refusal to get a ceasefire deal. Advocating for one doesn't have to be at the exclusion of the other.

“If I were putting up posters of the victims of gun violence in order to advocate for stronger gun laws in this country, you wouldn't ask me to ALSO put up posters of responsible gun owners”

No. But if someone took down one of your posters (especially if posted illegally) I wouldn’t take their photo, post it online, ask for their identification and then when finding it use that to find out their employer and organize a campaign to call employer and ask them to fire her.

Because that does happen THAT ia very good reason why protesters are hiding their faces.

DP.

Seriously?

Suppose you own a business. One of your employees is an NRA member ands/he tears down posters of kids murdered in a school shooting.

WWYD?

I think most people would fire that person in a heartbeat.

1) I'm not an employment lawyer but I see no basis for firing if the employee took down a poster outside my office and illegal posted (which it was in the case of the Dentist). If it was put up in my office as part of my own views/beliefs, I still not see cause to fire. I would talk to the employee and ask why the posters upset them and perhaps they would have a reasonable reason that would cause me not to post them anymore. If they said it's because they think school shooting are good, certainly I would be worried about the employee's mental health and might explore ways to separate from them and perhaps even alert law enforcement. However, if the employee said it's because the poster made them fearful that school shootings would come to their neighborhoods or is a reminder of trauma they experienced in the past, I would certainly consider removing the posters.

2) It wasn't the owner of the Dental business that was upset about the poster's removal. It was someone completely unrelated to the business who then organized campaign where the owner was called repeatedly and told unless he fired the Dentist they would stop going to his practice. His choice was to fire the Dentist or risk his business.

My point in sharing this story was to demonstrate why protesters want to hide their faces (and that the fact they do so because of fear of retaliation is not "antisemitic troupe".

If the story also helps you (or anyone) to open their minds to the fact that someone who removes a poster or joins in a pro-Palestinian protest may be an actual reasonable human being with their own life story and reasoning all the better. I can dream, right?

You're conflating two very different behaviors.

Peacefully joining a pro-Palestinian protest (and not engaging in hate speech)? 100% fine. No one should lose their job for that.

Tearing down hostage posters? Or posters of Palestinian kids killed by the Israeli government? Not fine.

In the latter example, you're not expressing your opinion--you're denying others the right to express theirs. You're also damaging someone else's property and just being flat out inhumane in denying others the right to grieve. It's a genuinely sh*tty thing to do.

The protesters need to stop tearing down the posters of Israeli hostages and instead just paint over them or post a picture of an American killed by Israel on top of them. Jews have no right to monopolize public spaces or property with their agenda or concerns.

You're having trouble with the concepts of decency and respect.

What protesters SHOULD do is put up posters of dead Palestinian kids next to the posters of Israeli hostages.

Both sides can express their positions without being d-bags.

They'd probably be labeled antisemitic.

They wouldn’t be if their point was to highlight the damage the war has done to both Israeli and Palestinian civilians. But you probably are an anti semite for your dismissiveness of acts of hatred against Jews.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the violent people in masks are really Jewish agitators, why don't the other protesters de-mask them and show the world who they really are?

It is an antisemitic trope to imply that protestors need to mask in order to avoid retribution from the pro Israel American community for voicing their views.

I’d love to discuss this more. Doxing is a real thing with real consequences. I personally know of a periodontist in MA who was fired for removing an illegally posted hostage poster in Nov 23 after a photo was taken of her and posted by pro Isreal supporters.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/15/business/palestinian-americans-activists-doxxing

I don’t know who the masked people are at the student rallies. But I could see if I was one of them I would want to hide my face for fear of retribution which I know has been taken in the past.

How exactly is that antisemitism?

If the poster was put up illegally, call the non-emergency police number. Don't look like a Hamas-sympathizing a-hole by removing it yourself.

+1

Talk about disingenuous.

The poster wasn't removed b/c it was "illegally posted". The poster was removed b/c the periodontist didn't want people to sympathize with the hostages.

100% deserved to be fired.

Someone deserved to lose their job because they removed a poster?

Nah - I wouldn’t have done it, but justifying someone’s life being upended for the act of removing a poster (regardless what that means to you) is 100,000x more outrageous than what she actually did. The people that doxxed her are scumbags, and you’re a scumbag for trying to justify it.

And if you can’t see why removing a poster in Massachusetts that involves people in Israel doesn’t affect anyone at all at the level of someone losing their job, further shame on you. Some people refuse to justify the outrageous history of Israel’s atrocities, knowing that nobody puts up posters for the countless victims of Israel barbarity over the years.

You have a good point that doxxing is dangerous. But I don't think that suffering consequences for your actions in public is necessarily out of the question.

The posters are an awareness campaign about the hostages. What is the point in tearing them down, if not to downplay the crimes of Hamas? Most people would just walk past it. I came of age when social media was new and we were drilled and drilled about being careful what we posted online, because it could affect our future employment. They told us in college not to post pictures of ourselves plastered at frat parties, because potential employers might find it years later and pass on interviewing us. In the same vein, how you act in public spaces is out there for employers to see and judge accordingly. It might not be right or fair, but it is how it is.

Why do you assume you know the reason she took them down?

I’m the previous poster and she had two reasons for removing the poster:

1) she felt that the posters placed higher value on Israeli lives than Palestinian and was offended by that.

2) she is from the region and thought she was safe in her new country. The posters made her feel that the conflict would now spill over into the US and she and her kids would be at risk of being grouped together with Hamas. Yes, she has suffered from Trauma and her instinctive flight or flight response was to remove a poster.

Did she say why she was taking them down? I haven't been able to find a statement from her about her motivations anywhere.

1. The posters don't have relativism built into them. Hamas took people from their beds and from a music festival and is holding them hostage. It's just a fact. The Palestinian people have also suffered horrific deaths; the hostage posters don't negate that fact either.

2. Feeling safe in America and fear of the conflict "spilling over into the US" ...Like Israelis and Jews literally seeing and hearing symbols of the terrorists calling for their death all over our city streets and college campuses? Pro-Palestine protesters are literally chanting "we're gonna bring the war home" at their rallies now. Hostage posters are not that.

With the over-the-top antics of the U.S. political class catering to Jewish Americans, do you sincerely expect anyone to believe that there are genuine fears of ANYTHING approaching rampant harm to Jews in America? I'm serious. As far as I can see, the only population completely insulated from risk of harm in America are the same people you want to convince us are actually the most vulnerable?

Are you not seeing the things that others see? FFS, the sitting Secretary of State literally threatened a body of judges in the ICC / ICJ over their fully justified hearing of a criminal complaint against Netanyahu! Members of the U.S. congress fall all over themselves to pledge loyalty to Israel, and won't even do the same for their constituents here in America.

You sincerely think we're going to see Jews attacked en masse in the U.S. without the National Guard called out to smash skulls and settle scores? Wake up.

We're talking about feelings. IF the dentist tore down the posters because she FELT threatened and we're supposed to take her fear as justification for her actions, then we also have to take seriously the feelings of Jews who encounter hate.

Yes. I take seriously the feelings of Jewish Americans AND the feelings of Palestinian Americans. BOTh. Not one side.

If someone wants to put up posters of hostages AND Palestinian victims. And hold a vigil for Palestinians please lmk. I’m there! But if you want to say there is a “right” side in this mess or only one victim or that the US has to continue to send weapons to Israel without conditions - nope. Disagree.

If I were putting up posters of the victims of gun violence in order to advocate for stronger gun laws in this country, you wouldn't ask me to ALSO put up posters of responsible gun owners.

I can advocate for the hostages and believe that Palestinians deserve not to live in a warzone. But I don't have to do it in the same breath. The pro-Palestine protesters certainly aren't ALSO calling for the release of the hostages at their rallies.

Maybe you're right and we SHOULD be doing that. But people are particular by nature, not universalist. That said, increasingly, the call to bring the hostages home is shining a light on Bibi's refusal to get a ceasefire deal. Advocating for one doesn't have to be at the exclusion of the other.

“If I were putting up posters of the victims of gun violence in order to advocate for stronger gun laws in this country, you wouldn't ask me to ALSO put up posters of responsible gun owners”

No. But if someone took down one of your posters (especially if posted illegally) I wouldn’t take their photo, post it online, ask for their identification and then when finding it use that to find out their employer and organize a campaign to call employer and ask them to fire her.

Because that does happen THAT ia very good reason why protesters are hiding their faces.

DP.

Seriously?

Suppose you own a business. One of your employees is an NRA member ands/he tears down posters of kids murdered in a school shooting.

WWYD?

I think most people would fire that person in a heartbeat.

1) I'm not an employment lawyer but I see no basis for firing if the employee took down a poster outside my office and illegal posted (which it was in the case of the Dentist). If it was put up in my office as part of my own views/beliefs, I still not see cause to fire. I would talk to the employee and ask why the posters upset them and perhaps they would have a reasonable reason that would cause me not to post them anymore. If they said it's because they think school shooting are good, certainly I would be worried about the employee's mental health and might explore ways to separate from them and perhaps even alert law enforcement. However, if the employee said it's because the poster made them fearful that school shootings would come to their neighborhoods or is a reminder of trauma they experienced in the past, I would certainly consider removing the posters.

2) It wasn't the owner of the Dental business that was upset about the poster's removal. It was someone completely unrelated to the business who then organized campaign where the owner was called repeatedly and told unless he fired the Dentist they would stop going to his practice. His choice was to fire the Dentist or risk his business.

My point in sharing this story was to demonstrate why protesters want to hide their faces (and that the fact they do so because of fear of retaliation is not "antisemitic troupe".

If the story also helps you (or anyone) to open their minds to the fact that someone who removes a poster or joins in a pro-Palestinian protest may be an actual reasonable human being with their own life story and reasoning all the better. I can dream, right?

You're conflating two very different behaviors.

Peacefully joining a pro-Palestinian protest (and not engaging in hate speech)? 100% fine. No one should lose their job for that.

Tearing down hostage posters? Or posters of Palestinian kids killed by the Israeli government? Not fine.

In the latter example, you're not expressing your opinion--you're denying others the right to express theirs. You're also damaging someone else's property and just being flat out inhumane in denying others the right to grieve. It's a genuinely sh*tty thing to do.

The protesters need to stop tearing down the posters of Israeli hostages and instead just paint over them or post a picture of an American killed by Israel on top of them. Jews have no right to monopolize public spaces or property with their agenda or concerns.

You're having trouble with the concepts of decency and respect.

What protesters SHOULD do is put up posters of dead Palestinian kids next to the posters of Israeli hostages.

Both sides can express their positions without being d-bags.

They'd probably be labeled antisemitic.

They wouldn’t be if their point was to highlight the damage the war has done to both Israeli and Palestinian civilians. But you probably are an anti semite for your dismissiveness of acts of hatred against Jews.

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Anonymous wrote:If the violent people in masks are really Jewish agitators, why don't the other protesters de-mask them and show the world who they really are?

It is an antisemitic trope to imply that protestors need to mask in order to avoid retribution from the pro Israel American community for voicing their views.

I’d love to discuss this more. Doxing is a real thing with real consequences. I personally know of a periodontist in MA who was fired for removing an illegally posted hostage poster in Nov 23 after a photo was taken of her and posted by pro Isreal supporters.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/15/business/palestinian-americans-activists-doxxing

I don’t know who the masked people are at the student rallies. But I could see if I was one of them I would want to hide my face for fear of retribution which I know has been taken in the past.

How exactly is that antisemitism?

If the poster was put up illegally, call the non-emergency police number. Don't look like a Hamas-sympathizing a-hole by removing it yourself.

+1

Talk about disingenuous.

The poster wasn't removed b/c it was "illegally posted". The poster was removed b/c the periodontist didn't want people to sympathize with the hostages.

100% deserved to be fired.

Someone deserved to lose their job because they removed a poster?

Nah - I wouldn’t have done it, but justifying someone’s life being upended for the act of removing a poster (regardless what that means to you) is 100,000x more outrageous than what she actually did. The people that doxxed her are scumbags, and you’re a scumbag for trying to justify it.

And if you can’t see why removing a poster in Massachusetts that involves people in Israel doesn’t affect anyone at all at the level of someone losing their job, further shame on you. Some people refuse to justify the outrageous history of Israel’s atrocities, knowing that nobody puts up posters for the countless victims of Israel barbarity over the years.

You have a good point that doxxing is dangerous. But I don't think that suffering consequences for your actions in public is necessarily out of the question.

The posters are an awareness campaign about the hostages. What is the point in tearing them down, if not to downplay the crimes of Hamas? Most people would just walk past it. I came of age when social media was new and we were drilled and drilled about being careful what we posted online, because it could affect our future employment. They told us in college not to post pictures of ourselves plastered at frat parties, because potential employers might find it years later and pass on interviewing us. In the same vein, how you act in public spaces is out there for employers to see and judge accordingly. It might not be right or fair, but it is how it is.

Why do you assume you know the reason she took them down?

I’m the previous poster and she had two reasons for removing the poster:

1) she felt that the posters placed higher value on Israeli lives than Palestinian and was offended by that.

2) she is from the region and thought she was safe in her new country. The posters made her feel that the conflict would now spill over into the US and she and her kids would be at risk of being grouped together with Hamas. Yes, she has suffered from Trauma and her instinctive flight or flight response was to remove a poster.

Did she say why she was taking them down? I haven't been able to find a statement from her about her motivations anywhere.

1. The posters don't have relativism built into them. Hamas took people from their beds and from a music festival and is holding them hostage. It's just a fact. The Palestinian people have also suffered horrific deaths; the hostage posters don't negate that fact either.

2. Feeling safe in America and fear of the conflict "spilling over into the US" ...Like Israelis and Jews literally seeing and hearing symbols of the terrorists calling for their death all over our city streets and college campuses? Pro-Palestine protesters are literally chanting "we're gonna bring the war home" at their rallies now. Hostage posters are not that.

With the over-the-top antics of the U.S. political class catering to Jewish Americans, do you sincerely expect anyone to believe that there are genuine fears of ANYTHING approaching rampant harm to Jews in America? I'm serious. As far as I can see, the only population completely insulated from risk of harm in America are the same people you want to convince us are actually the most vulnerable?

Are you not seeing the things that others see? FFS, the sitting Secretary of State literally threatened a body of judges in the ICC / ICJ over their fully justified hearing of a criminal complaint against Netanyahu! Members of the U.S. congress fall all over themselves to pledge loyalty to Israel, and won't even do the same for their constituents here in America.

You sincerely think we're going to see Jews attacked en masse in the U.S. without the National Guard called out to smash skulls and settle scores? Wake up.

We're talking about feelings. IF the dentist tore down the posters because she FELT threatened and we're supposed to take her fear as justification for her actions, then we also have to take seriously the feelings of Jews who encounter hate.

Yes. I take seriously the feelings of Jewish Americans AND the feelings of Palestinian Americans. BOTh. Not one side.

If someone wants to put up posters of hostages AND Palestinian victims. And hold a vigil for Palestinians please lmk. I’m there! But if you want to say there is a “right” side in this mess or only one victim or that the US has to continue to send weapons to Israel without conditions - nope. Disagree.

If I were putting up posters of the victims of gun violence in order to advocate for stronger gun laws in this country, you wouldn't ask me to ALSO put up posters of responsible gun owners.

I can advocate for the hostages and believe that Palestinians deserve not to live in a warzone. But I don't have to do it in the same breath. The pro-Palestine protesters certainly aren't ALSO calling for the release of the hostages at their rallies.

Maybe you're right and we SHOULD be doing that. But people are particular by nature, not universalist. That said, increasingly, the call to bring the hostages home is shining a light on Bibi's refusal to get a ceasefire deal. Advocating for one doesn't have to be at the exclusion of the other.

“If I were putting up posters of the victims of gun violence in order to advocate for stronger gun laws in this country, you wouldn't ask me to ALSO put up posters of responsible gun owners”

No. But if someone took down one of your posters (especially if posted illegally) I wouldn’t take their photo, post it online, ask for their identification and then when finding it use that to find out their employer and organize a campaign to call employer and ask them to fire her.

Because that does happen THAT ia very good reason why protesters are hiding their faces.

DP.

Seriously?

Suppose you own a business. One of your employees is an NRA member ands/he tears down posters of kids murdered in a school shooting.

WWYD?

I think most people would fire that person in a heartbeat.

1) I'm not an employment lawyer but I see no basis for firing if the employee took down a poster outside my office and illegal posted (which it was in the case of the Dentist). If it was put up in my office as part of my own views/beliefs, I still not see cause to fire. I would talk to the employee and ask why the posters upset them and perhaps they would have a reasonable reason that would cause me not to post them anymore. If they said it's because they think school shooting are good, certainly I would be worried about the employee's mental health and might explore ways to separate from them and perhaps even alert law enforcement. However, if the employee said it's because the poster made them fearful that school shootings would come to their neighborhoods or is a reminder of trauma they experienced in the past, I would certainly consider removing the posters.

2) It wasn't the owner of the Dental business that was upset about the poster's removal. It was someone completely unrelated to the business who then organized campaign where the owner was called repeatedly and told unless he fired the Dentist they would stop going to his practice. His choice was to fire the Dentist or risk his business.

My point in sharing this story was to demonstrate why protesters want to hide their faces (and that the fact they do so because of fear of retaliation is not "antisemitic troupe".

If the story also helps you (or anyone) to open their minds to the fact that someone who removes a poster or joins in a pro-Palestinian protest may be an actual reasonable human being with their own life story and reasoning all the better. I can dream, right?

You're conflating two very different behaviors.

Peacefully joining a pro-Palestinian protest (and not engaging in hate speech)? 100% fine. No one should lose their job for that.

Tearing down hostage posters? Or posters of Palestinian kids killed by the Israeli government? Not fine.

In the latter example, you're not expressing your opinion--you're denying others the right to express theirs. You're also damaging someone else's property and just being flat out inhumane in denying others the right to grieve. It's a genuinely sh*tty thing to do.

The protesters need to stop tearing down the posters of Israeli hostages and instead just paint over them or post a picture of an American killed by Israel on top of them. Jews have no right to monopolize public spaces or property with their agenda or concerns.

You're having trouble with the concepts of decency and respect.

What protesters SHOULD do is put up posters of dead Palestinian kids next to the posters of Israeli hostages.

Both sides can express their positions without being d-bags.

They'd probably be labeled antisemitic.