Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.

DP. What exactly do you think merit is? Working hard from a young age and being more advanced than your same-age peers sounds a lot like merit to me.

Also, your arguments could be used for any varsity sports team.
a) Some communities value sports excellent at a much higher rate than others.
b) Making the varsity team for many sports favors families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around that sport.

If you're going to push racial balance in academics, then you should also do so in sports. If you're going to penalize kids for working hard from a young age and being more advanced, then you should also penalize kids in sports who start doing travel leagues or have private coaching.

Merit can be pretty easily defined with respect to TJ as "ability to contribute positively to a strong, well-rounded, collaborative academic environment focused on STEM". There are hundreds of students in every TJ class who, while their report cards and resumes may read well, do essentially nothing to contribute positively to the TJ environment. People on this site get angry whenever I mention that a huge number of them are indistinguishable on paper - but that's by design. They are striving to mirror what they believe to be the portrait of the ideal elite college applicant, which usually amounts to imitating the LinkedIn profile of some kid in an earlier year who got into their dream school. And they do this because it worked to get them into TJ - because the previous admissions process told them "this is what we're looking for".

The sports metaphor is laughable on its face and whenever I hear it brought up in real life, it's almost always a leading indicator of deep (and frequently unwitting) anti-Black resentment.

Hi, that’s great, but mathematicians at NASA really don’t care about all that sht if the kids they’re trying to recruit to build capable rockets can’t actually do math, but were shuffled along academically because of quotas. I’m sorry you’re racist against Asians and seem to view them as robotic automatons incapable of creativity. Just let the fking cream rise to the top and stop trying to pss in the bucket.

Maybe the golf team is a better example for PP. Not everyone can afford equipment, lessons, and greens fees. Why should the school golf team be limited to those who are better at golf when it is clear its based on prep and socio-economic factors that hinder a level playing field from an early age? We should do a holistic review. lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.

DP. What exactly do you think merit is? Working hard from a young age and being more advanced than your same-age peers sounds a lot like merit to me.

Also, your arguments could be used for any varsity sports team.
a) Some communities value sports excellent at a much higher rate than others.
b) Making the varsity team for many sports favors families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around that sport.

If you're going to push racial balance in academics, then you should also do so in sports. If you're going to penalize kids for working hard from a young age and being more advanced, then you should also penalize kids in sports who start doing travel leagues or have private coaching.

Merit can be pretty easily defined with respect to TJ as "ability to contribute positively to a strong, well-rounded, collaborative academic environment focused on STEM". There are hundreds of students in every TJ class who, while their report cards and resumes may read well, do essentially nothing to contribute positively to the TJ environment. People on this site get angry whenever I mention that a huge number of them are indistinguishable on paper - but that's by design. They are striving to mirror what they believe to be the portrait of the ideal elite college applicant, which usually amounts to imitating the LinkedIn profile of some kid in an earlier year who got into their dream school. And they do this because it worked to get them into TJ - because the previous admissions process told them "this is what we're looking for".

The sports metaphor is laughable on its face and whenever I hear it brought up in real life, it's almost always a leading indicator of deep (and frequently unwitting) anti-Black resentment.

Hi, that’s great, but mathematicians at NASA really don’t care about all that sht if the kids they’re trying to recruit to build capable rockets can’t actually do math, but were shuffled along academically because of quotas. I’m sorry you’re racist against Asians and seem to view them as robotic automatons incapable of creativity. Just let the fking cream rise to the top and stop trying to pss in the bucket.

Not sure if anyone cares anymore or is following this lawsuit, but I wanted to mention that the briefs in Opposition of the TJ Coalition Motion for Preliminary Injunction and the Reply to that Brief as well as the TJ Coalition Opposition to FCSB's Motion to Dismiss were filed today. The hearing on both motions (FCSB's Motion to Dismiss and TJ Coalition's Motion for Preliminary Injunction) are scheduled to argued on May 21. Several organizations have also petitioned to submit amici briefs to give the judge their thoughts on the case.

Not sure if anyone cares anymore or is following this lawsuit, but I wanted to mention that the briefs in Opposition of the TJ Coalition Motion for Preliminary Injunction and the Reply to that Brief as well as the TJ Coalition Opposition to FCSB's Motion to Dismiss were filed today. The hearing on both motions (FCSB's Motion to Dismiss and TJ Coalition's Motion for Preliminary Injunction) are scheduled to argued on May 21. Several organizations have also petitioned to submit amici briefs to give the judge their thoughts on the case.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian families as a cohort prize STEM careers and cultivate their children to do well in STEM classes. I'm sure many of them contribute immensely to TJ. I don't get the argument against Asians and TJ. It's like penalizing farmer children for doing well on manual labor tasks.

1) Students shouldn't be penalized for not being born into an Asian family, and admission to TJ should be an accomplishment of the student, not the family

2) Many do, and many don't. The number of kids at TJ - again, of ALL races - who just show up, take their classes, get their diploma and leave without contributing anything to the broader community is disgraceful for a selective school, and is a function of a previous narrow-minded admissions process that over-selected for test-taking skills

3) It's not an argument against Asians, it's an argument in favor of representative diversity, which CONSISTENTLY produces stronger academic environments and students more prepared to face and take on the problems of the real world. When you have a population that is wildly over-represented in any environment, any effort to achieve legitimate diversity will have an impact on that population regardless of whether they are specifically being targeted

4) That analogy has no relevance at all and it's not clear what point you're trying to make with it.

No one is being penalized. TJ is a school you apply to.

How is it measured if those students do more or less than other schools in the area? By what criteria? I know a lot of TJ people who moved back to this area and are raising their children here. One current TJ grad is spending the year here helping other children through the pandemic. Do you have any data that these students aren't contributing to the economy and broader community both in school and after?

There is nothing wrong with trying to achieve diversity. The testing should be made broader to be more inclusive then or more work done to help kids rise to the same level. Not dumb down the school.

When I refer to "the broader community", I mean the broader TJ community. The question I'm asking is "what value do you add to the experience that other students have at the school?"

I don't particularly care about the extent to which other students at other area schools contribute to their environments, because most of them are not nearly as selective as TJ is with the exception of a few privates - and those privates are HIGHLY attuned to the value that their applicants are likely to bring to the school community.

What I do know is that participation in school activities that are collaborative and that other students enjoy is way down compared to where it was 15-20 years ago. Far fewer students play on athletic teams, and far fewer students attend those contests. Far fewer students participate in performing arts, and far fewer students attend those performances. Students use their time in eighth period not to connect with their fellow students and share their passions, but instead to pad their college resumes with participation and leadership in clubs that have fancy, STEM-sounding names, but that don't actually do anything during their time in the club. More and more students know fewer and fewer of their fellow classmates. More of them transfer out of the school than in past years. And, critically, fewer of them return to visit for events like Homecoming or during their college vacations (granted, this last piece can be attributed somewhat to draconian and tone-deaf visitor policies put in place during the Glazer era).

I don't know if this has anything to do with the increase in the Asian population, but I do know that it has everything to do with the optimization of the TJ admissions process and the individualistic attitude that is instilled in the kids from an early age.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian families as a cohort prize STEM careers and cultivate their children to do well in STEM classes. I'm sure many of them contribute immensely to TJ. I don't get the argument against Asians and TJ. It's like penalizing farmer children for doing well on manual labor tasks.

1) Students shouldn't be penalized for not being born into an Asian family, and admission to TJ should be an accomplishment of the student, not the family

2) Many do, and many don't. The number of kids at TJ - again, of ALL races - who just show up, take their classes, get their diploma and leave without contributing anything to the broader community is disgraceful for a selective school, and is a function of a previous narrow-minded admissions process that over-selected for test-taking skills

3) It's not an argument against Asians, it's an argument in favor of representative diversity, which CONSISTENTLY produces stronger academic environments and students more prepared to face and take on the problems of the real world. When you have a population that is wildly over-represented in any environment, any effort to achieve legitimate diversity will have an impact on that population regardless of whether they are specifically being targeted

4) That analogy has no relevance at all and it's not clear what point you're trying to make with it.

No one is being penalized. TJ is a school you apply to.

How is it measured if those students do more or less than other schools in the area? By what criteria? I know a lot of TJ people who moved back to this area and are raising their children here. One current TJ grad is spending the year here helping other children through the pandemic. Do you have any data that these students aren't contributing to the economy and broader community both in school and after?

There is nothing wrong with trying to achieve diversity. The testing should be made broader to be more inclusive then or more work done to help kids rise to the same level. Not dumb down the school.

Anonymous wrote:Asian families as a cohort prize STEM careers and cultivate their children to do well in STEM classes. I'm sure many of them contribute immensely to TJ. I don't get the argument against Asians and TJ. It's like penalizing farmer children for doing well on manual labor tasks.

1) Students shouldn't be penalized for not being born into an Asian family, and admission to TJ should be an accomplishment of the student, not the family

2) Many do, and many don't. The number of kids at TJ - again, of ALL races - who just show up, take their classes, get their diploma and leave without contributing anything to the broader community is disgraceful for a selective school, and is a function of a previous narrow-minded admissions process that over-selected for test-taking skills

3) It's not an argument against Asians, it's an argument in favor of representative diversity, which CONSISTENTLY produces stronger academic environments and students more prepared to face and take on the problems of the real world. When you have a population that is wildly over-represented in any environment, any effort to achieve legitimate diversity will have an impact on that population regardless of whether they are specifically being targeted

4) That analogy has no relevance at all and it's not clear what point you're trying to make with it.

Asian families as a cohort prize STEM careers and cultivate their children to do well in STEM classes. I'm sure many of them contribute immensely to TJ. I don't get the argument against Asians and TJ. It's like penalizing farmer children for doing well on manual labor tasks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.

DP. What exactly do you think merit is? Working hard from a young age and being more advanced than your same-age peers sounds a lot like merit to me.

Also, your arguments could be used for any varsity sports team.
a) Some communities value sports excellent at a much higher rate than others.
b) Making the varsity team for many sports favors families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around that sport.

If you're going to push racial balance in academics, then you should also do so in sports. If you're going to penalize kids for working hard from a young age and being more advanced, then you should also penalize kids in sports who start doing travel leagues or have private coaching.

Merit can be pretty easily defined with respect to TJ as "ability to contribute positively to a strong, well-rounded, collaborative academic environment focused on STEM". There are hundreds of students in every TJ class who, while their report cards and resumes may read well, do essentially nothing to contribute positively to the TJ environment. People on this site get angry whenever I mention that a huge number of them are indistinguishable on paper - but that's by design. They are striving to mirror what they believe to be the portrait of the ideal elite college applicant, which usually amounts to imitating the LinkedIn profile of some kid in an earlier year who got into their dream school. And they do this because it worked to get them into TJ - because the previous admissions process told them "this is what we're looking for".

The sports metaphor is laughable on its face and whenever I hear it brought up in real life, it's almost always a leading indicator of deep (and frequently unwitting) anti-Black resentment.

It’s easier to discriminate against Asians when you see them as faceless, interchangeable robots with no life and personality.

You want an example of Anti-Asian racism? This right here. You’re showing your bias, and people are right to be angry about what you just said.

It is also incorrect to assert that the Asian students at TJ are representative of Asian students as a whole. They are not. This is not a question of race, but rather of a narrow sliver of a broader population.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.

DP. What exactly do you think merit is? Working hard from a young age and being more advanced than your same-age peers sounds a lot like merit to me.

Also, your arguments could be used for any varsity sports team.
a) Some communities value sports excellent at a much higher rate than others.
b) Making the varsity team for many sports favors families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around that sport.

If you're going to push racial balance in academics, then you should also do so in sports. If you're going to penalize kids for working hard from a young age and being more advanced, then you should also penalize kids in sports who start doing travel leagues or have private coaching.

Merit can be pretty easily defined with respect to TJ as "ability to contribute positively to a strong, well-rounded, collaborative academic environment focused on STEM". There are hundreds of students in every TJ class who, while their report cards and resumes may read well, do essentially nothing to contribute positively to the TJ environment. People on this site get angry whenever I mention that a huge number of them are indistinguishable on paper - but that's by design. They are striving to mirror what they believe to be the portrait of the ideal elite college applicant, which usually amounts to imitating the LinkedIn profile of some kid in an earlier year who got into their dream school. And they do this because it worked to get them into TJ - because the previous admissions process told them "this is what we're looking for".

The sports metaphor is laughable on its face and whenever I hear it brought up in real life, it's almost always a leading indicator of deep (and frequently unwitting) anti-Black resentment.

It’s easier to discriminate against Asians when you see them as faceless, interchangeable robots with no life and personality.

You want an example of Anti-Asian racism? This right here. You’re showing your bias, and people are right to be angry about what you just said.

You'll notice that I didn't specify that the ones who are indistinguishable on paper are Asian. You chose to interpret that yourself. There are plenty of white kids as well who fall into that category - but again, because there is a subsegment of the population who thinks that access to TJ is their birthright because they choose to sell out to the process, people choose to read any criticism of the TJ student body as a criticism of Asians.

When someone says "TJ students are X" and you hear "Asian students are X", you are telling on yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.

DP. What exactly do you think merit is? Working hard from a young age and being more advanced than your same-age peers sounds a lot like merit to me.

Also, your arguments could be used for any varsity sports team.
a) Some communities value sports excellent at a much higher rate than others.
b) Making the varsity team for many sports favors families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around that sport.

If you're going to push racial balance in academics, then you should also do so in sports. If you're going to penalize kids for working hard from a young age and being more advanced, then you should also penalize kids in sports who start doing travel leagues or have private coaching.

Merit can be pretty easily defined with respect to TJ as "ability to contribute positively to a strong, well-rounded, collaborative academic environment focused on STEM". There are hundreds of students in every TJ class who, while their report cards and resumes may read well, do essentially nothing to contribute positively to the TJ environment. People on this site get angry whenever I mention that a huge number of them are indistinguishable on paper - but that's by design. They are striving to mirror what they believe to be the portrait of the ideal elite college applicant, which usually amounts to imitating the LinkedIn profile of some kid in an earlier year who got into their dream school. And they do this because it worked to get them into TJ - because the previous admissions process told them "this is what we're looking for".

The sports metaphor is laughable on its face and whenever I hear it brought up in real life, it's almost always a leading indicator of deep (and frequently unwitting) anti-Black resentment.

It’s easier to discriminate against Asians when you see them as faceless, interchangeable robots with no life and personality.

You want an example of Anti-Asian racism? This right here. You’re showing your bias, and people are right to be angry about what you just said.

DP. Uhhhh, stating facts is not anti-Asian. You’re just mad that PP is correct.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.

DP. What exactly do you think merit is? Working hard from a young age and being more advanced than your same-age peers sounds a lot like merit to me.

Also, your arguments could be used for any varsity sports team.
a) Some communities value sports excellent at a much higher rate than others.
b) Making the varsity team for many sports favors families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around that sport.

If you're going to push racial balance in academics, then you should also do so in sports. If you're going to penalize kids for working hard from a young age and being more advanced, then you should also penalize kids in sports who start doing travel leagues or have private coaching.

Merit can be pretty easily defined with respect to TJ as "ability to contribute positively to a strong, well-rounded, collaborative academic environment focused on STEM". There are hundreds of students in every TJ class who, while their report cards and resumes may read well, do essentially nothing to contribute positively to the TJ environment. People on this site get angry whenever I mention that a huge number of them are indistinguishable on paper - but that's by design. They are striving to mirror what they believe to be the portrait of the ideal elite college applicant, which usually amounts to imitating the LinkedIn profile of some kid in an earlier year who got into their dream school. And they do this because it worked to get them into TJ - because the previous admissions process told them "this is what we're looking for".

The sports metaphor is laughable on its face and whenever I hear it brought up in real life, it's almost always a leading indicator of deep (and frequently unwitting) anti-Black resentment.

It’s easier to discriminate against Asians when you see them as faceless, interchangeable robots with no life and personality.

You want an example of Anti-Asian racism? This right here. You’re showing your bias, and people are right to be angry about what you just said.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.

DP. What exactly do you think merit is? Working hard from a young age and being more advanced than your same-age peers sounds a lot like merit to me.

Also, your arguments could be used for any varsity sports team.
a) Some communities value sports excellent at a much higher rate than others.
b) Making the varsity team for many sports favors families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around that sport.

If you're going to push racial balance in academics, then you should also do so in sports. If you're going to penalize kids for working hard from a young age and being more advanced, then you should also penalize kids in sports who start doing travel leagues or have private coaching.

Merit can be pretty easily defined with respect to TJ as "ability to contribute positively to a strong, well-rounded, collaborative academic environment focused on STEM". There are hundreds of students in every TJ class who, while their report cards and resumes may read well, do essentially nothing to contribute positively to the TJ environment. People on this site get angry whenever I mention that a huge number of them are indistinguishable on paper - but that's by design. They are striving to mirror what they believe to be the portrait of the ideal elite college applicant, which usually amounts to imitating the LinkedIn profile of some kid in an earlier year who got into their dream school. And they do this because it worked to get them into TJ - because the previous admissions process told them "this is what we're looking for".

The sports metaphor is laughable on its face and whenever I hear it brought up in real life, it's almost always a leading indicator of deep (and frequently unwitting) anti-Black resentment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.

DP. What exactly do you think merit is? Working hard from a young age and being more advanced than your same-age peers sounds a lot like merit to me.

Also, your arguments could be used for any varsity sports team.
a) Some communities value sports excellent at a much higher rate than others.
b) Making the varsity team for many sports favors families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around that sport.

If you're going to push racial balance in academics, then you should also do so in sports. If you're going to penalize kids for working hard from a young age and being more advanced, then you should also penalize kids in sports who start doing travel leagues or have private coaching.

Sports teams are not chosen by who worked the hardest. They need a diversity in a number of well-defined skills. Additional a variety of "holistic" factors are very important: an ability to work effectively with others, leadership, character. You may train for years to meet minimal standards, but it does not mean you will excel in the sport.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. It sounds very stupid to discriminate against persons based on their race just because one race is underrepresented and the other is over represented based on merit.

You can keep parroting this talking point until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true.

Asians are not over-represented at TJ because of "merit". They are over-represented at TJ because:

a) Their community values academic prestige at a MUCH higher rate than all other communities in NoVa - which explains their over-representation among applicants; and

b) The previous admissions process strongly favored families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around optimizing that process - which explains their over-representation even when controlling for application numbers.

Choosing to sell out to getting into TJ from an early age is not merit.

DP. What exactly do you think merit is? Working hard from a young age and being more advanced than your same-age peers sounds a lot like merit to me.

Also, your arguments could be used for any varsity sports team.
a) Some communities value sports excellent at a much higher rate than others.
b) Making the varsity team for many sports favors families who are willing and able to gear a student's entire childhood around that sport.

If you're going to push racial balance in academics, then you should also do so in sports. If you're going to penalize kids for working hard from a young age and being more advanced, then you should also penalize kids in sports who start doing travel leagues or have private coaching.