^ you suck. You are leaving your own wife, the mother of your kids, and family on Mother’s Day to meet your AP? Yet you scorn the AP’s husband for having something else to do on Mother’s Day. I hope your DW takes you to the cleaners and blows up your world.

Anonymous wrote:With that last post ^ I think I'm going to check out of this discussion. In 30 pages, I've learned absolutely nothing. I've asked some very specific questions that no one has answered while I've tried to answer the simple title question as simply as possible, and getting as deep as possible when questioned. If I've enlightened anyone, they've stayed silent about it while the usual band of women have responded with the same phrases and vitriol these questions always generate.

Guess what I'm doing tomorrow? AP's H has decided that something else is more important that mother's day tomorrow so he will be gone most of the day, leaving us some precious hours to meet for some fun in the afternoon. I'm looking forward to a little excitement. Life isn't too bad.

Did you expect some kind of praise or absolution or public agreement with your decision to cheat? and all those who listened to you but weren’t swayed by your justification were vitriolic?

People disagree with you - that doesn’t make them crazy or harpies or dummies who don’t understand men.

You clearly feel you’re doing nothing wrong. OK, fine, carry on as you were. But it’s probs not reasonable to expect applause.

Anonymous wrote:With that last post ^ I think I'm going to check out of this discussion. In 30 pages, I've learned absolutely nothing. I've asked some very specific questions that no one has answered while I've tried to answer the simple title question as simply as possible, and getting as deep as possible when questioned. If I've enlightened anyone, they've stayed silent about it while the usual band of women have responded with the same phrases and vitriol these questions always generate.

Guess what I'm doing tomorrow? AP's H has decided that something else is more important that mother's day tomorrow so he will be gone most of the day, leaving us some precious hours to meet for some fun in the afternoon. I'm looking forward to a little excitement. Life isn't too bad.

Happy. Mothers day to you bkth

With that last post ^ I think I'm going to check out of this discussion. In 30 pages, I've learned absolutely nothing. I've asked some very specific questions that no one has answered while I've tried to answer the simple title question as simply as possible, and getting as deep as possible when questioned. If I've enlightened anyone, they've stayed silent about it while the usual band of women have responded with the same phrases and vitriol these questions always generate.

Guess what I'm doing tomorrow? AP's H has decided that something else is more important that mother's day tomorrow so he will be gone most of the day, leaving us some precious hours to meet for some fun in the afternoon. I'm looking forward to a little excitement. Life isn't too bad.

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe there are 30 pages of people arguing whether a healthy marriage requires sex and whether people who sexually abandon their partners might be surprised they have been cheated on. Is this just two posters?

I'm the guy who was the subject of all the scorn for the first 20 pages or so as I tried to answer every question thrown my way until I was answering the same damn questions up to six times. I can't believe anyone is this clueless wither but, I've read this board for years. There are a lot of married, middle aged women on this board who love to live in denial. Me thinks that those who doth protest the most are also those who have given up on sex and they just can't believe that THEIR husband would be like the men we are describing, or me. Surely, this idea that most men would at least strongly consider cheating after being denied sex for some long period of time, just can't be true. It certainly can't be the norm for men. Therefore, it has to be the exception and only for those few men who are: of loose morals, narcissistic, selfish, assholes. A good man, like their poor suffering husbands, would surely approach her about a divorce before he'd ever take the cheating path. Or better yet, he would just suck it up and let his sex life die while he takes care of things in the shower. Really, these women are not that dumb at all. They just don't want to face (their) reality.

Now all that said, here is a warning for married men who may be neglecting their wives.[b] The biggest jump in female members on Ashley Madison is right after Mother's day. That's the day when many women who have been contemplating an affair, finally get fed up and at least put their toe in the water. The Christmas/New Years holidays and right after Valentine's day are also big days for women to join but the day after mother's day is the biggest. Take that from a player. There are a lot of sharks out there who will be checking their accounts, ready to pounce on those new members (and you can sort by new members), all next week. Treat your woman right or she may find some amount of joy with another man. Even if she just chats with a bunch to see what it's all about while enjoying the attention. It's a step in that direction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's back up a step even further. It appears to be completely normal, and actually expected, that a wife will lose her libido for her husband after having kids or during menopause. I say expected because this situation is found as a fixture in sitcoms and literature. (It's funny because it is true).

Why then do you think that women are being dishonest or disingenuous when then enter marriage with the expectation that things will rapidly cool off as their marriage gets longer? Why do men enter into a marriage contract when they can clearly see their parents, other relatives and adults, and in the media, that the sexual component of their marriage is likely to die, because their wife will stop wanting to have sex with them in the near or far future?

I think men and women are NOT changing the rules of engagement, but just fulfilling the path that is laid out for them by biology and society. By pretending he didn't know that his wife would stop wanting to have sex with him a man is being dishonest and misleading. He should not have married in the first place and continued to have an expectation of hot, abundant sex. He KNEW. He was TOLD. It was OBVIOUS. Why he thought his marriage would be different is a question to ask.

I see where you are going. And I will concede to each of your points. But along these same gender stereotype lines.... and in those same sitcoms (equally funny-because-true)

Men are not being dishonest or disingenuous when then enter marriage with the expectation that when she inevitably DOES lose interest that he will simply continue having sex with other women. Why do women enter into a marriage contract when they can clearly see their parents, other relatives and adults, and in the media, that the sexless wife problem is invariably solved by the man having an endless series of affair partners? By pretending she didn't know that her husband would be cheating, a woman is being dishonest and misleading. She should not have married in the first place and continued to have an expectation of his fidelity once she loses interest. She KNEW. She was TOLD. It was OBVIOUS. Why she thought her marriage would be different is a question to ask.

I don't think I've seen sexless marriages with the husband cheating in the media. You do see cheaters who are still having sex and a good relationship with their spouse, however.

I don't think there is an actual expectation that once sex goes away a man will start to cheat. That just isn't out there. I mean ... if, when you were 17, you imagined your parents were not having sex (which most of us would prefer) .... would you also have imagined your dad was cheating on your mom? I don't think so. That isn't a thing.

I am not the poster you are arguing with, promise. But you are delusional if you think your spouse, man or woman, is going to faithfully celibate if you cut them off. Honestly, I wonder if you have a sex drive because you talk about sex as something that's kind of nice like a picnic or art class. For the vast majority of the healthy population, it's essentially and tied to mental health and emotional satisfaction

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's back up a step even further. It appears to be completely normal, and actually expected, that a wife will lose her libido for her husband after having kids or during menopause. I say expected because this situation is found as a fixture in sitcoms and literature. (It's funny because it is true).

Why then do you think that women are being dishonest or disingenuous when then enter marriage with the expectation that things will rapidly cool off as their marriage gets longer? Why do men enter into a marriage contract when they can clearly see their parents, other relatives and adults, and in the media, that the sexual component of their marriage is likely to die, because their wife will stop wanting to have sex with them in the near or far future?

I think men and women are NOT changing the rules of engagement, but just fulfilling the path that is laid out for them by biology and society. By pretending he didn't know that his wife would stop wanting to have sex with him a man is being dishonest and misleading. He should not have married in the first place and continued to have an expectation of hot, abundant sex. He KNEW. He was TOLD. It was OBVIOUS. Why he thought his marriage would be different is a question to ask.

I see where you are going. And I will concede to each of your points. But along these same gender stereotype lines.... and in those same sitcoms (equally funny-because-true)

Men are not being dishonest or disingenuous when then enter marriage with the expectation that when she inevitably DOES lose interest that he will simply continue having sex with other women. Why do women enter into a marriage contract when they can clearly see their parents, other relatives and adults, and in the media, that the sexless wife problem is invariably solved by the man having an endless series of affair partners? By pretending she didn't know that her husband would be cheating, a woman is being dishonest and misleading. She should not have married in the first place and continued to have an expectation of his fidelity once she loses interest. She KNEW. She was TOLD. It was OBVIOUS. Why she thought her marriage would be different is a question to ask.

I don't think I've seen sexless marriages with the husband cheating in the media. You do see cheaters who are still having sex and a good relationship with their spouse, however.

I don't think there is an actual expectation that once sex goes away a man will start to cheat. That just isn't out there. I mean ... if, when you were 17, you imagined your parents were not having sex (which most of us would prefer) .... would you also have imagined your dad was cheating on your mom? I don't think so. That isn't a thing.

Anonymous wrote:^ will you please stop taking over every thread with your sexless marriage bs?!!! Men “need” food and water, and will die without it. Men do not “need” sex, and they will not die without it. You clearly believe that want=entitlement=need. Women must participate in sex no matter what because men deserve it. You suck and your misogynistic attitude towards women is why none want to sleep with you.

The thing is once someone cheats they've ended that marriage. His spouse probably suspects and is just trying to survive hoping he slips on a banana peel.

I would despise my spouse if they cheated even if we had to stay together for kids and finances. Imagine if he put that much effort into his family. Yet sadly doesn't see he's the problem. If you have a decent spouse and good kids, that's your treasure right there. Nothing could make me jeopardize that, nor some loser that's willing to cheat with a married man. No stranger is worth losing my family over and my finances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ will you please stop taking over every thread with your sexless marriage bs?!!! Men “need” food and water, and will die without it. Men do not “need” sex, and they will not die without it. You clearly believe that want=entitlement=need. Women must participate in sex no matter what because men deserve it. You suck and your misogynistic attitude towards women is why none want to sleep with you.

I'm sure that's a big reason his wife has pulled back. I couldn't stand a spouse that makes sex the priority in the relationship. No thanks!

The kids, bills, communication, etc. etc. will come before that if need be. If the other parts of the marriage are failing the sex will as well. That's the problem right there and that pp has made it worse by cheating with some nut.

Sex need not be THE priority, but it must be A priority to ensure that it happens consistently 2x per week.

Given that you put sex at the very bottom of your long list, I predict major difficulties if you are married to a man with expectations of monogamy.

If you put it at the top and the kids, communication, and your families needs near the bottom...I predict major problems for you.

Oh that's right - you're already there because YOU are the problem. You should get some therapy as to why being a liar and cheater makes sense to you.

Anonymous wrote:Let's back up a step even further. It appears to be completely normal, and actually expected, that a wife will lose her libido for her husband after having kids or during menopause. I say expected because this situation is found as a fixture in sitcoms and literature. (It's funny because it is true).

Why then do you think that women are being dishonest or disingenuous when then enter marriage with the expectation that things will rapidly cool off as their marriage gets longer? Why do men enter into a marriage contract when they can clearly see their parents, other relatives and adults, and in the media, that the sexual component of their marriage is likely to die, because their wife will stop wanting to have sex with them in the near or far future?

I think men and women are NOT changing the rules of engagement, but just fulfilling the path that is laid out for them by biology and society. By pretending he didn't know that his wife would stop wanting to have sex with him a man is being dishonest and misleading. He should not have married in the first place and continued to have an expectation of hot, abundant sex. He KNEW. He was TOLD. It was OBVIOUS. Why he thought his marriage would be different is a question to ask.

I see where you are going. And I will concede to each of your points. But along these same gender stereotype lines.... and in those same sitcoms (equally funny-because-true)

Men are not being dishonest or disingenuous when then enter marriage with the expectation that when she inevitably DOES lose interest that he will simply continue having sex with other women. Why do women enter into a marriage contract when they can clearly see their parents, other relatives and adults, and in the media, that the sexless wife problem is invariably solved by the man having an endless series of affair partners? By pretending she didn't know that her husband would be cheating, a woman is being dishonest and misleading. She should not have married in the first place and continued to have an expectation of his fidelity once she loses interest. She KNEW. She was TOLD. It was OBVIOUS. Why she thought her marriage would be different is a question to ask.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer the question (that was previously asked): what EXACTLY do you think a man would do if his wife no longer wants sex AND she does not want to divorce over this? In other words, she’s unilaterally changed the terms of their relationship AND simultaneously she wants to stay married. What does your brother do in that situation?

It has been said on this thread many times. You can choose to divorce before you cheat. You are the one that has unilaterally changed the terms by cheating and lying about it (and all the millions of lies that you have told to enable the cheating). Like you have been told and told and told, she may choose to divorce if she knew you were cheating. You know that so won’t tell her, likely because you don’t want to upset your cake-eating situation and ruin your image with family, friends, neighbors, etc. So to answer your question, in your situation I hope my brother would have an honest conversation with with his wife before cheating and make clear the options in that situation.

You are responding to (and confusing) multiple different posters. Please follow this sequence carefully because it's essential to the matter.

1) a normal romantic relationship is formed that progresses through dating/engagement/marriage
2) throughout this time, a normal active sex life is enjoyed by both spouses
3) certain expectations of fidelity are formed by both sides: perhaps verbal, perhaps not, but this now becomes a monogamous relationship WITH an active satisfying sex life (these 2 conditions must co-occur... nobody pledges fidelity in return for chastity)
4) at some point, for some reason, the wife stops wanting sex, and she UNILATERALLY changes the terms of relationship
.... read that point #4 again: the sexless wife has unilaterally broken the terms of a romantic monogamous relationship with active normal sex life
5) wife, using her brain, understands that her normal libido husband must (somehow!) continue to meet his normal sexual needs, but she DOES NOT want to know the details (otherwise, she would find out)
6) wife, now fully aware that he is "somehow" meeting his essential need for sex, she decides she want's to stay married (otherwise, she would divorce) the man she doesn't want sex with
7) husband now prevents divorce by meeting his sexual needs elsewhere, allowing the wife to stay married AND not have sex (ie, gives her exactly what she wants)

Before you again skip directly to step 7, back up and review steps 4/5/6. Do you seriously believe most women do not have a brain?

Let's back up a step even further. It appears to be completely normal, and actually expected, that a wife will lose her libido for her husband after having kids or during menopause. I say expected because this situation is found as a fixture in sitcoms and literature. (It's funny because it is true).

Why then do you think that women are being dishonest or disingenuous when then enter marriage with the expectation that things will rapidly cool off as their marriage gets longer? Why do men enter into a marriage contract when they can clearly see their parents, other relatives and adults, and in the media, that the sexual component of their marriage is likely to die, because their wife will stop wanting to have sex with them in the near or far future?

I think men and women are NOT changing the rules of engagement, but just fulfilling the path that is laid out for them by biology and society. By pretending he didn't know that his wife would stop wanting to have sex with him a man is being dishonest and misleading. He should not have married in the first place and continued to have an expectation of hot, abundant sex. He KNEW. He was TOLD. It was OBVIOUS. Why he thought his marriage would be different is a question to ask.

I can't believe there are 30 pages of people arguing whether a healthy marriage requires sex and whether people who sexually abandon their partners might be surprised they have been cheated on. Is this just two posters?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer the question (that was previously asked): what EXACTLY do you think a man would do if his wife no longer wants sex AND she does not want to divorce over this? In other words, she’s unilaterally changed the terms of their relationship AND simultaneously she wants to stay married. What does your brother do in that situation?

It has been said on this thread many times. You can choose to divorce before you cheat. You are the one that has unilaterally changed the terms by cheating and lying about it (and all the millions of lies that you have told to enable the cheating). Like you have been told and told and told, she may choose to divorce if she knew you were cheating. You know that so won’t tell her, likely because you don’t want to upset your cake-eating situation and ruin your image with family, friends, neighbors, etc. So to answer your question, in your situation I hope my brother would have an honest conversation with with his wife before cheating and make clear the options in that situation.

You are responding to (and confusing) multiple different posters. Please follow this sequence carefully because it's essential to the matter.

1) a normal romantic relationship is formed that progresses through dating/engagement/marriage
2) throughout this time, a normal active sex life is enjoyed by both spouses
3) certain expectations of fidelity are formed by both sides: perhaps verbal, perhaps not, but this now becomes a monogamous relationship WITH an active satisfying sex life (these 2 conditions must co-occur... nobody pledges fidelity in return for chastity)
4) at some point, for some reason, the wife stops wanting sex, and she UNILATERALLY changes the terms of relationship
.... read that point #4 again: the sexless wife has unilaterally broken the terms of a romantic monogamous relationship with active normal sex life
5) wife, using her brain, understands that her normal libido husband must (somehow!) continue to meet his normal sexual needs, but she DOES NOT want to know the details (otherwise, she would find out)
6) wife, now fully aware that he is "somehow" meeting his essential need for sex, she decides she want's to stay married (otherwise, she would divorce) the man she doesn't want sex with
7) husband now prevents divorce by meeting his sexual needs elsewhere, allowing the wife to stay married AND not have sex (ie, gives her exactly what she wants)

Before you again skip directly to step 7, back up and review steps 4/5/6. Do you seriously believe most women do not have a brain?

New poster. As you have been told a thousand times on a thousand different threads and refuse to try to understand, the batshit part of your "proof" is 3-6.

- There is not a "certain expectation" of fidelity. There is an explicit vow of fidelity.
- You insist that women are somehow "fully aware" they're being cheated upon but just don't want to be told.

You refuse to try to take on board how self-serving and incoherent this is, because then you'd have to face the fact that your infidelity is cowardice, and not the natural and inevitable consequence of your wife's wrong-doing. You are twisting logic into pretzels to justify your own behavior and to make yourself the innocent victim.

Any time when you have to have an explanation this elaborate and convuluted as to why something isn't your fault... it's your fault.

You are absolutely awful, and I hope your wife finds out and divorces your ass.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ will you please stop taking over every thread with your sexless marriage bs?!!! Men “need” food and water, and will die without it. Men do not “need” sex, and they will not die without it. You clearly believe that want=entitlement=need. Women must participate in sex no matter what because men deserve it. You suck and your misogynistic attitude towards women is why none want to sleep with you.

I'm sure that's a big reason his wife has pulled back. I couldn't stand a spouse that makes sex the priority in the relationship. No thanks!

The kids, bills, communication, etc. etc. will come before that if need be. If the other parts of the marriage are failing the sex will as well. That's the problem right there and that pp has made it worse by cheating with some nut.

Sex need not be THE priority, but it must be A priority to ensure that it happens consistently 2x per week.

Given that you put sex at the very bottom of your long list, I predict major difficulties if you are married to a man with expectations of monogamy.

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer the question (that was previously asked): what EXACTLY do you think a man would do if his wife no longer wants sex AND she does not want to divorce over this? In other words, she’s unilaterally changed the terms of their relationship AND simultaneously she wants to stay married. What does your brother do in that situation?

It has been said on this thread many times. You can choose to divorce before you cheat. You are the one that has unilaterally changed the terms by cheating and lying about it (and all the millions of lies that you have told to enable the cheating). Like you have been told and told and told, she may choose to divorce if she knew you were cheating. You know that so won’t tell her, likely because you don’t want to upset your cake-eating situation and ruin your image with family, friends, neighbors, etc. So to answer your question, in your situation I hope my brother would have an honest conversation with with his wife before cheating and make clear the options in that situation.

You are responding to (and confusing) multiple different posters. Please follow this sequence carefully because it's essential to the matter.

1) a normal romantic relationship is formed that progresses through dating/engagement/marriage
2) throughout this time, a normal active sex life is enjoyed by both spouses
3) certain expectations of fidelity are formed by both sides: perhaps verbal, perhaps not, but this now becomes a monogamous relationship WITH an active satisfying sex life (these 2 conditions must co-occur... nobody pledges fidelity in return for chastity)
4) at some point, for some reason, the wife stops wanting sex, and she UNILATERALLY changes the terms of relationship
.... read that point #4 again: the sexless wife has unilaterally broken the terms of a romantic monogamous relationship with active normal sex life
5) wife, using her brain, understands that her normal libido husband must (somehow!) continue to meet his normal sexual needs, but she DOES NOT want to know the details (otherwise, she would find out)
6) wife, now fully aware that he is "somehow" meeting his essential need for sex, she decides she want's to stay married (otherwise, she would divorce) the man she doesn't want sex with
7) husband now prevents divorce by meeting his sexual needs elsewhere, allowing the wife to stay married AND not have sex (ie, gives her exactly what she wants)

Before you again skip directly to step 7, back up and review steps 4/5/6. Do you seriously believe most women do not have a brain?