Anonymous wrote:Impeachment won't be just this. It will also be the 4 instances of obstruction of justice in the russia probe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much to contemplate here. Impeachment looks all but certain, as it should be. Removal is more iffy, but ultimately more likely than not. I tend to think that Warren will be the Democrats’ nominee. In the meantime ... do Republicans need to reconsider the possibility of not allowing real primary challenges to Trump? Under any scenario, the GOP is absolute toast in 2020. We’re talking Warren wins in a landslide and Democrats capture the Senate. America has had enough.

I wonder about this too. Can the states that have canceled primaries reinstate them?

It would take an Ambassador Haley, not some third tier NeverTrumper clown put forth by neocons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not enough of a smoking gun, IMO. And now, Pelosi is going to look like the boy who cried “impeach” one too many times.

I want Trump out, but this is a huge political risk that will energize his base.

Except she only said it ONCE.

You lie in every post.

I rarely post on the political forums.

I realize she’s been the one hitting the brakes on impeachment, but you’re ignoring how this looks. The call for impeachment has been going on for a long time, or have you not noticed?

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break! That’s it? Trump is right, this was a nothing phone call. All I see here is the Ukrainian President doing some ass kisisng, President Trump rushing through the call, and suggesting in passing that the Ukrainian President, who ran on an anti-corruption platform, look into whether Joe Biden and his son engaged in corruption in his country. And he offered the assistance of the US Attorney General and his personal attorney if helpful. That’s it. No connection to military or other aid of any kind, or any other quid pro quo. If this is all the Dems have, then what an embarrassment! There is no chance this will succeed in any way. Just goes to show that the Dems now realize they can’t win the next election and that this is their best hope of getting rid of the President. It’s absolutely hysterical. I must say, I feel better than ever about his 2020 chances. What a farce this is!

There was a direct connection between military aid and investigations. Zelenskyy said:

"I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

This is an obvious reference to the military aid that was being withheld.

and Trump replied:

"I would like you to do us a favor though..." and went on to talk about Crowdstrike and Biden.

The clear implication is that the military aid was linked to these two investigations.

Way too vague in my opinion, and that was coming from Zelenskyy. For all we know, the military aid was being withheld to induce Ukraine to order the Javelins, not investigate Biden. Just like the Mueller report, there are hints of impropriety if you are so inclined, but nothing concrete. It seems pretty clear to me that the Ukrainian President was out to please Trump, and would have done any favor with no strings attached. But here the favor was investigating corruption involving our former VP Biden, which honestly he should be doing anyway. There is no proven or proveable connection to aid of any kind. But I’m sure the conspiracy theorists will insist that Trump told Zelenskyy to stay at a Trump Tower to line his pockets just because he mentioned that too. This is called grasping at straws.

This is only vague if you are being intentionally obtuse. Again, Trump responds to Zelenskyy's desire to move ahead with military aid by saying, "I would like you to do us a favor though...". Clearly, the "though" means Trump wants the favor first. There is no legitimate reason for the President of Ukraine to investigate Vice President Biden. There is no hint of Biden breaking any Ukrainian laws.

“Though” is also a transition word in English, like “okay” or “alright.” So Trump equally could have been signalling that he was moving on to a new topic that was not necessarily connected in any way to the foregoing discussion of NATO, military aid, etc. Just remember, this was a very quick call and there were several items on his agenda. Point is, you’ll never pin him on this, he’s far too tricky.

Anonymous wrote:This conversation is so bad, it's not defensible in any way. It scares me that the White House though this would help Trump - what kind of stupid people are running our Executive Branch?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break! That’s it? Trump is right, this was a nothing phone call. All I see here is the Ukrainian President doing some ass kisisng, President Trump rushing through the call, and suggesting in passing that the Ukrainian President, who ran on an anti-corruption platform, look into whether Joe Biden and his son engaged in corruption in his country. And he offered the assistance of the US Attorney General and his personal attorney if helpful. That’s it. No connection to military or other aid of any kind, or any other quid pro quo. If this is all the Dems have, then what an embarrassment! There is no chance this will succeed in any way. Just goes to show that the Dems now realize they can’t win the next election and that this is their best hope of getting rid of the President. It’s absolutely hysterical. I must say, I feel better than ever about his 2020 chances. What a farce this is!

There was a direct connection between military aid and investigations. Zelenskyy said:

"I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

This is an obvious reference to the military aid that was being withheld.

and Trump replied:

"I would like you to do us a favor though..." and went on to talk about Crowdstrike and Biden.

The clear implication is that the military aid was linked to these two investigations.

Way too vague in my opinion, and that was coming from Zelenskyy. For all we know, the military aid was being withheld to induce Ukraine to order the Javelins, not investigate Biden. Just like the Mueller report, there are hints of impropriety if you are so inclined, but nothing concrete. It seems pretty clear to me that the Ukrainian President was out to please Trump, and would have done any favor with no strings attached. But here the favor was investigating corruption involving our former VP Biden, which honestly he should be doing anyway. There is no proven or proveable connection to aid of any kind. But I’m sure the conspiracy theorists will insist that Trump told Zelenskyy to stay at a Trump Tower to line his pockets just because he mentioned that too. This is called grasping at straws.

So no. This is the problem.

There was no corruption or problem with Biden. Therefore there is no reason for Trump to ask Zelensky to look into it and no reason for Zelensky to do that on his own.

That's the problem right there. You found it but then you're ignoring it. Because you are not patriotic? For another reason?

So if there was no corruption by Biden and son, then the investigation would go nowhere. What’s the problem?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much to contemplate here. Impeachment looks all but certain, as it should be. Removal is more iffy, but ultimately more likely than not. I tend to think that Warren will be the Democrats’ nominee. In the meantime ... do Republicans need to reconsider the possibility of not allowing real primary challenges to Trump? Under any scenario, the GOP is absolute toast in 2020. We’re talking Warren wins in a landslide and Democrats capture the Senate. America has had enough.

I wonder about this too. Can the states that have canceled primaries reinstate them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not enough of a smoking gun, IMO. And now, Pelosi is going to look like the boy who cried “impeach” one too many times.

I want Trump out, but this is a huge political risk that will energize his base.

Except she only said it ONCE.

You lie in every post.

Anonymous wrote:This is not enough of a smoking gun, IMO. And now, Pelosi is going to look like the boy who cried “impeach” one too many times.

I want Trump out, but this is a huge political risk that will energize his base.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break! That’s it? Trump is right, this was a nothing phone call. All I see here is the Ukrainian President doing some ass kisisng, President Trump rushing through the call, and suggesting in passing that the Ukrainian President, who ran on an anti-corruption platform, look into whether Joe Biden and his son engaged in corruption in his country. And he offered the assistance of the US Attorney General and his personal attorney if helpful. That’s it. No connection to military or other aid of any kind, or any other quid pro quo. If this is all the Dems have, then what an embarrassment! There is no chance this will succeed in any way. Just goes to show that the Dems now realize they can’t win the next election and that this is their best hope of getting rid of the President. It’s absolutely hysterical. I must say, I feel better than ever about his 2020 chances. What a farce this is!

There was a direct connection between military aid and investigations. Zelenskyy said:

"I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

This is an obvious reference to the military aid that was being withheld.

and Trump replied:

"I would like you to do us a favor though..." and went on to talk about Crowdstrike and Biden.

The clear implication is that the military aid was linked to these two investigations.

Way too vague in my opinion, and that was coming from Zelenskyy. For all we know, the military aid was being withheld to induce Ukraine to order the Javelins, not investigate Biden. Just like the Mueller report, there are hints of impropriety if you are so inclined, but nothing concrete. It seems pretty clear to me that the Ukrainian President was out to please Trump, and would have done any favor with no strings attached. But here the favor was investigating corruption involving our former VP Biden, which honestly he should be doing anyway. There is no proven or proveable connection to aid of any kind. But I’m sure the conspiracy theorists will insist that Trump told Zelenskyy to stay at a Trump Tower to line his pockets just because he mentioned that too. This is called grasping at straws.

So no. This is the problem.

There was no corruption or problem with Biden. Therefore there is no reason for Trump to ask Zelensky to look into it and no reason for Zelensky to do that on his own.

That's the problem right there. You found it but then you're ignoring it. Because you are not patriotic? For another reason?

So if there was no corruption by Biden and son, then the investigation would go nowhere. What’s the problem?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give me a break! That’s it? Trump is right, this was a nothing phone call. All I see here is the Ukrainian President doing some ass kisisng, President Trump rushing through the call, and suggesting in passing that the Ukrainian President, who ran on an anti-corruption platform, look into whether Joe Biden and his son engaged in corruption in his country. And he offered the assistance of the US Attorney General and his personal attorney if helpful. That’s it. No connection to military or other aid of any kind, or any other quid pro quo. If this is all the Dems have, then what an embarrassment! There is no chance this will succeed in any way. Just goes to show that the Dems now realize they can’t win the next election and that this is their best hope of getting rid of the President. It’s absolutely hysterical. I must say, I feel better than ever about his 2020 chances. What a farce this is!

There was a direct connection between military aid and investigations. Zelenskyy said:

"I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes."

This is an obvious reference to the military aid that was being withheld.

and Trump replied:

"I would like you to do us a favor though..." and went on to talk about Crowdstrike and Biden.

The clear implication is that the military aid was linked to these two investigations.

Way too vague in my opinion, and that was coming from Zelenskyy. For all we know, the military aid was being withheld to induce Ukraine to order the Javelins, not investigate Biden. Just like the Mueller report, there are hints of impropriety if you are so inclined, but nothing concrete. It seems pretty clear to me that the Ukrainian President was out to please Trump, and would have done any favor with no strings attached. But here the favor was investigating corruption involving our former VP Biden, which honestly he should be doing anyway. There is no proven or proveable connection to aid of any kind. But I’m sure the conspiracy theorists will insist that Trump told Zelenskyy to stay at a Trump Tower to line his pockets just because he mentioned that too. This is called grasping at straws.

So no. This is the problem.

There was no corruption or problem with Biden. Therefore there is no reason for Trump to ask Zelensky to look into it and no reason for Zelensky to do that on his own.

That's the problem right there. You found it but then you're ignoring it. Because you are not patriotic? For another reason?

So if there was no corruption by Biden and son, then the investigation would go nowhere. What’s the problem?