Anonymous wrote:I’ve always enjoyed weeding out people stupid enough to list their (non-academic or industry) fraternity or sorority on their resume from the searches I’ve managed. Automatic no.

That’s a shame that you’re so biased that you don’t consider the full qualifications of candidates for hiring. Many of the students involved in their fraternity/sorority boards run organizations of 250+ people with large operating budgets, have risk management training, run charitable events, work within national guidelines, attend national leadership conferences, etc. It sounds like your company may be missing some recent grads who could be good candidates based on your reliance on Greek stereotypes.

Anonymous wrote:I can report that even if your daughter gets into a "top" sorority, the competition doesn't end. Mine is in one but hasn't gotten invited to some of the selective fraternity events where the boys invite certain girls from certain houses.

I'm not crying a river for her at all. She's been very lucky, she checks off all the criteria listed above. Dealing with rejection is a good life lesson.

Yup. In the top houses at UVA you are dealing with girls who are used to being the center of attention of any room, class, etc because of their looks. The response is to further exclude. For many an event isn't worth going to or a club isn't worth joining unless others are excluded. It's not all sunshine and roses.

I can report that even if your daughter gets into a "top" sorority, the competition doesn't end. Mine is in one but hasn't gotten invited to some of the selective fraternity events where the boys invite certain girls from certain houses.

I'm not crying a river for her at all. She's been very lucky, she checks off all the criteria listed above. Dealing with rejection is a good life lesson.

NP here. I've been following this thread as my dd just went through spring rush at another school. Despite being a very academic and super level-headed kid, my dd was initially caught up in the top/popular house bs. Its part of how she (not me) imagined her college experience. She was surprised and upset when she got cut from her favorite/top house toward the end. Personally, I didn't think she would be a good fit for that group (very privileged, not so kind) and hoped she would end up elsewhere). Her biggest fear was being separated from the good friends she had made thus far and not knowing anyone in her pc. After her disappointment she acknowledged that she was fortunate to have 2 solid options at the end - and 1 was a house she initially dismissed but turned out to have great girls. Disappointment and rejection is part of this awful process and you need to be resilient. Happy to report she got a bid to a house with nice girls that really wanted her. And to her surprise (but not mine), she wasn't the only one cut from top houses and found that several current friends will also be in her pc - so she is relieved and happy. Thankfully, the drama from last week has dissipated and kids can refocus on school (and fun) vs this absurd competition. But want to share that competition exists in pretty much every selective school. Auditions for performing arts groups and club applications/interviews is fierce and the norm these days. My kid had plenty of club rejection in the fall. Avoiding greek doesn't insulate kids from judgment and rejection. I encourage my kid to keep an open mind and to put a lot of lines in the water to catch the opportunities. It's a very different time vs my college experience decades ago when clubs had open sign up lists!

Very few people end up with group they hung out with at beginning of freshman year. Gives other houses a chance.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The lowest tier houses mean she'll be separated from all her current friends. And the lower tier houses are not a guarantee themselves. She could very likely not be either of them either.

I guess my true question is (let's not get caught up in house tiering) is: what happened to your kid if they were either not matched to any house or separated from all their current friends? Did they bounce back socially? Did they transfer?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened to my daughter several years ago, and it was especially tough after she had been “dirty rushed” by a couple of houses in the fall that cut her (they had winter recruitment at that school). She was devastated at the time, and it was what tipped her to transfer the next fall (particularly because it was already hard to be social during all the Covid lock downs and social distancing). At her new uni she gave sorority rush another chance and ended up in a house that was a great fit for her and gave her wonderful friends and leadership opportunities. So things can work out in the end.

Winter rush can be really tough, as girls build both expectations and anxieties based on how many people they already know or don’t know in the various chapters. Plus there’s the added worry of being the only one in a 1st semester friend group without a full spring social calendar. Best of luck to your daughter as she navigates everything and to you as you watch her go through it. It really does have to be her own process based on my experience.

What is dirty rush?

Houses aren’t supposed to recruit before Rush officially starts so that every girl has the same opportunity to meet the houses at the same time. Dirty rush is when some members of a house gets to know freshmen earlier, so that when Rush starts, the girls they want already have connections and interest in their house. The might target girls that seem like a fit for their house, but sometimes they get it wrong and sometimes they meet girls they want more during Rush. So the girl who was dirty rushed feels led on. Nothing is promised, it’s just a head start for some and technically not allowed but happens all the time (organically or not)

Dirty rush at my school was sororities telling girls they loved them but couldn't take them (they had too many ranked ahead of them). Sororities encouraged girls to drop out of rush or suicide-bid (rank only that house) so they could get snap bids on Bid Day, or be scooped up via COB - it was a way to build their numbers with a guaranteed pool of candidates they were interested in, but we not the top X number (whatever quota was). Lots of girls did it, but more often than not, the bids didn't come through.

You can have lots in common with other students in:
-Intramural sports
-The student newspaper
-Hiking club
-Religious club or church or synagogue or house of worship
-Culinary club
-Dance club
-Adventure club
-Chess club
-Theater

You can have lots in common but even many of these clubs don't let every student in. There are often barriers to joining such as tryouts, interviews, applications, etc. You often can't just join anymore and things like sports, newspaper, religion, and theatre are not automatic. There are even schools that require and application, interview, and "social" event to judge fit for things like culinary clubs now. Doesn't sound a lot different from rush.

I’ve always enjoyed weeding out people stupid enough to list their (non-academic or industry) fraternity or sorority on their resume from the searches I’ve managed. Automatic no.

* as being not like UVA

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA sororities are exceptionally hierarchical by looks. I was looking through Instagram last night and the top NU and Michigan pledge classes are quite diverse: Asians. Black girls. size 6 girls, girls with athletic builds etc.
UVA sorts by southern frat God desirability.
Top 4: Stepford wife, hot girl, size 0, white girl beauty. To a person.
Bottom 4: Opposite of the top 4.
Middle 6: all the rest.

My daughter and friends rushed for the "sisterhood" which the've been told by social media is an ideal. They're high achievers and don't come from households that glorify sororities nor do most have moms who rushed. 4 days later and they're all processing the experience whether they got a spot or not. Because this Greek life caste system extends to the university culture at large it can be difficult to live around. Yes, they'll find their people outside and inside the greek system but they're pretty disenchanted with their school.

Do you mean “size 6 girls” to mean “not thin”? Like actually is “size 6” your claim at size diversity?!

Yes. I absolutely mean that. That is how warped it is. You won't find a size 6 in a top 4 sorority at UVA.
It actually stands out that there are girls this size in the top houses at the other schools.

Well, it's good training for adult life then.
Things are no different as an adult. The top earners in the top professions are all thin and good looking.
...and also, UVA is and always has been like this.

Funny, the PP mentioned Michigan as being notime UVA (looks hierarchy) but I guess those Michigan slackers won't amount to much unlike the UVA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA sororities are exceptionally hierarchical by looks. I was looking through Instagram last night and the top NU and Michigan pledge classes are quite diverse: Asians. Black girls. size 6 girls, girls with athletic builds etc.
UVA sorts by southern frat God desirability.
Top 4: Stepford wife, hot girl, size 0, white girl beauty. To a person.
Bottom 4: Opposite of the top 4.
Middle 6: all the rest.

My daughter and friends rushed for the "sisterhood" which the've been told by social media is an ideal. They're high achievers and don't come from households that glorify sororities nor do most have moms who rushed. 4 days later and they're all processing the experience whether they got a spot or not. Because this Greek life caste system extends to the university culture at large it can be difficult to live around. Yes, they'll find their people outside and inside the greek system but they're pretty disenchanted with their school.

Do you mean “size 6 girls” to mean “not thin”? Like actually is “size 6” your claim at size diversity?!

Yes. I absolutely mean that. That is how warped it is. You won't find a size 6 in a top 4 sorority at UVA.
It actually stands out that there are girls this size in the top houses at the other schools.

Well, it's good training for adult life then.
Things are no different as an adult. The top earners in the top professions are all thin and good looking.
...and also, UVA is and always has been like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL. Top 5 “things in common” thresholds for sororities:

1) Are you white and Christian
2) Are you pretty (bonus points for blonde)
3) Are you thin
4) Are you down to drink and be verrrryyyy “social” with fraternity brothers
5) Are you likely to STFU and do what you’re told

+1000

I'm really not sure where you are getting your information, Revenge of the Nerds? Rush Tok?
This certainly isn't true anymore at T25 schools. Maybe it's more true at SEC schools, but even those schools have a place for women who aren't these things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that not ashamed but that her daughter might be going through it (emotionally) and she is too, by proxy.

Or she didn't feel comfortable sharing anymore. It's anonymous, but I know my daughter would not have reacted kindly to a post like this.

To the poster who made the comment about being a leader or a follower, that's not really a fair representation. There are some that want you to look, act and pose a certain way (and it's not about being a "proper lady") and there are others that accept people for who they are. Chose wisely!

Agree. People like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Doris Kearns Goodwin were in sororities.

I notice you cited examples from a time when the sororities those ladies were in were all-white as a rule. How very interesting. I guess it was all great to have closely-guarded segregation as long as the graduates did well, huh?

Please research the "Divine Nine." Most women of color choose one of those amazing, impactful, life-long associations, over Kappa Omega Whatever, as would I if I were a POC. Though, most of the "historically all-white" sororities now care deeply about recruiting women of color, though it's a tough sell when better options are available.

Anonymous wrote:LOL. Top 5 “things in common” thresholds for sororities:

1) Are you white and Christian
2) Are you pretty (bonus points for blonde)
3) Are you thin
4) Are you down to drink and be verrrryyyy “social” with fraternity brothers
5) Are you likely to STFU and do what you’re told

I guess my UVA sorority daughter does not 100% fit your profile:

1) Are you white and Christian - Not White/Catholic (some don’t consider her to be Christian- just saying). Immigrant parents.

2) Are you pretty (bonus points for blonde) - pretty? Depends. She isn’t blonde

3) Are you thin- Nope, not thin, but not hugely overweight either.

4) Are you down to drink and be verrrryyyy “social” with fraternity brothers- she does go out and drinks, is social, but not “very” social.

5) Are you likely to STFU and do what you’re told- Ha! If only. She never STFU while growing up. Also, was quick to question dumb rules.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My guess is that not ashamed but that her daughter might be going through it (emotionally) and she is too, by proxy.

Or she didn't feel comfortable sharing anymore. It's anonymous, but I know my daughter would not have reacted kindly to a post like this.

To the poster who made the comment about being a leader or a follower, that's not really a fair representation. There are some that want you to look, act and pose a certain way (and it's not about being a "proper lady") and there are others that accept people for who they are. Chose wisely!

Agree. People like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Doris Kearns Goodwin were in sororities.

I notice you cited examples from a time when the sororities those ladies were in were all-white as a rule. How very interesting. I guess it was all great to have closely-guarded segregation as long as the graduates did well, huh?