Anonymous wrote:Your daughter sounds amazing and will be great wherever she ends up. She has four great choices. After reading all this, I have to say kids who have very good but not top stats (like my kid) have a less stressful experience with the admissions process because they know they’re not at the top and aim a little lower. I feel for the very top kids, but know that your very top kids will thrive and make great contributions wherever they go because they have the drive and self-discipline.

Agree with this.

Also, I have seen many many "very top kids" went to a top school for premed, just to be humbled by Bs and Cs the first year.

The "very good kids" went to Pitts and thrived there, and went on to their medical journey.

"Fit" is more important than brand, particularly in pursue of a medical degree.

I understand the disappointment. It is natural, but your DD has great options. I haven't waded through the 30 pages, but I think it is important to keep things in perspective.

Thirty years ago at my top NE boarding school, there were 1 or 2 kids who got "shut" out of the Ivies despite having top grades and extracurriculars. They were just unlucky. Years later I ran into one of them at a top grad school, and he was a published author, who went on to receive a MacArthur-level global prize in his discipline. Being rejected from the Ivies didn't change the fact that he was brilliant and driven, so he still rose to the top.

The problem today is that being shut out is much more common--top students can apply to dozens of schools. The numbers just are not in 95% of kids' favor. So your daughter definitely has company. Based on everything you shared, there is no reason to believe she will have trouble rising to the top where she lands.

As adults, we need to be part of the change we want to see. Talent comes from a lot of different schools, not just the top 25. So, why should we treat attending a lower ranked school like it will impede our child's future? It should not. Your daughter sounds amazing, and she is just as amazing today as she was six months ago!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I’m sure your kid is wonderful and hardworking and smart. If it makes you feel better, look up the bios of the kids who win the Coca Cola scholarships. You will not believe the list of things they’ve done over four years. Many of these are the MC/UMC kids getting admission to the schools everyone wants. That’s what your daughter competed against.

The uber wealthy of course are in a league of their own.

Or look up the “stats/ECs” videos of the kids who post their Ivy acceptances on YouTube.

Yeah, top schools throw a bone to first generation/low income occasionally so that their entire campus isn’t the same UMC/wealthy monolith it could be.

There are just a lot of smart and hardworking kids competing for the same few spots. No need to dwell on what happened, just look forward on the bright future she has to come.

This^^^. Many of the kids who get in are actually a "step above" in terms of self motivated and actually doing all their EC themselves (not "doing research with Dad's best friend"). For kids like that, the AO can see it's genuine and spot a highly motivated kid who naturally is like this, not because parents are pushing them for 12 years.

Hmm...the only Coca Cola scholar I recognize has a dad who tried to cheat off me in high school. And this kid was recognized in high school for science projects highly tied to his parents' graduate degrees.

In some cases, I suspect there is just a tier/prestige difference to the parenting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I think it’s wrong that our current college admissions process is becoming like Korea, China or India where children lose their childhoods spending 10 hour days cramming to score high enough or pressured to abandon all ethics and cheat whenever possible to get a coveted seat at the few respected institutions. Whether you win the lottery or not, you have lost more than you gained along the way.

You can easily choose not to go down that path.

My High stats kid did (1500/3.95 UW/8 AP).
They choose to mostly do STEM APs and AP Psych (easy and more importantly they liked Psychology)
They skipped APUSH/AP Eng/AP Spanish/French, because while they could easily do the course and get an A/A-, they didn't want to add 15-20+ hours/week of coursework. They wanted to dance 15-20hr+/week and enjoy HS just a bit. So they took AP Calc AB&BC, AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Physics Mech, AP CompSci A, etc. And skipped the time consuming (for them) Humanities/LA AP courses.
Now, maybe that is what prevented them from getting into reaches, who knows. What I do know is my kid had the academic HS experience they wanted (aside from Covid and classes from their bed for 1.5 years) We felt it was important that my kid get 5-6 hours of sleep each night not 3-4. And they were not giving up dance, they did what they wanted to with that

My kid got WL at one reach, rejected at 3, in at NEU Global Scholars, and in at 4 Targets and 3 safeties. And they are very happy where they are, and excelling for their future.

More importantly HS was not 4 years of misery doing things just because they might get into a T10 school

Someone will come along shortly and say your kid is not well rounded and can't read a 400 year old book and can't pick out countries from a map

I doubt anyone would say that because that is an excellent profile of a very bright kid. But, they did pretty much rule themselves out of acceptance at most T15s or T10 SLACs with that approach and there is nothing wrong with that because there are literally hundreds of schools which will provide a springboard to success in life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah, she wasn’t realistic about a lot of these colleges. I’m pp whose DC got into 8 schools a while back.

I agree with other posters. You have to do lots of research to get good outcomes. And I mean a lot of research. And then you have to be very realistic about the game and how you can win at it.

We were lucky because 1) my kid was not a 1500+ student; 2) the Ivies were never a consideration because of it, and 3) a few other “street smart” factors that we homed in on that narrowed our focus.

Colleges tell you who they are without necessarily telling you who they are if you are researching well and asking the right questions.

My last thought is that very few students should be applying to Ivies. It’s too hard to win at that game, and the penalty of losing other options early on is just not worth it unless you are really hooked.

I’m intrigued by this. Can you please share more? Maybe an example of two?

Cornell has college-specific essays. Then an essay about the motto: "Any person, any study". Then I hear the Engineering college makes you write an essay for the waitlist. That's a fair number of checkpoints on how well you understand Cornell. I also went to an AO's presentation on-campus where they said a C on the transcript would give them pause (regardless of overall GPA) unless there was a really great reason for it. Because they worry it's a sign the student can't keep up...because typical students have flawless transcripts.

I've read that the Penn State Honors College has an insane number of essays these days. That's undoubtedly to weed out kids who otherwise are all the same on paper. When I attended PSU honors, it was based strictly on SAT score. My guess is they still get too many high stat prospective engineering majors. When I started at PSU it was dominated by male engineering students and didn't have much to offer liberal arts majors like me. I left PSU in part because of that.

A few schools care about demonstrated interest and that does not have to be an in-person visit. So better make sure for those schools that you maximize that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who finds HS founders of non-profits to be borderline insulting? I worked in the non-profit world, so did dh. These are serious places and it takes as much (if not more) work than a business to be a really successful one. I know bc we now own a successful business. It's not some vanity project to be started by a 17 year old. So annoying. Change my mind.

Absolutely this. Along with “research.” Come on. It’s a rote, meaningless checking of boxes. When so many applicants are showing up with awesome profiles you don’t need one more thing that can be “achieved” by all the others as well. You need a personality that catches the attention of someone reading your file, an unusual skill, an/or whatever profile combination the admissions office is looking for at that moment in time.

I find this more insulting than starting a non-profit or research. So if you can spin a tale, or pay someone to spin it for you, that is better?

I feel for you OP (and DC), we may be in the same boat next year. DD very similar stats and looking for the same schools.

What? No. It’s not spinning a tale, it’s conveying to strangers something about yourself and/or your world view that makes you memorable rather than just file #8062. Interesting that you assume that it is necessarily inauthentic.

Anonymous wrote:I heard a college admissions officer explain it this way: The top five students from every high school (100K) in the U.S. =500,000 applicants to top schools!

There are 27,000 HS in the US so while the number is wrong the sentiment is spot on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah, she wasn’t realistic about a lot of these colleges. I’m pp whose DC got into 8 schools a while back.

I agree with other posters. You have to do lots of research to get good outcomes. And I mean a lot of research. And then you have to be very realistic about the game and how you can win at it.

We were lucky because 1) my kid was not a 1500+ student; 2) the Ivies were never a consideration because of it, and 3) a few other “street smart” factors that we homed in on that narrowed our focus.

Colleges tell you who they are without necessarily telling you who they are if you are researching well and asking the right questions.

My last thought is that very few students should be applying to Ivies. It’s too hard to win at that game, and the penalty of losing other options early on is just not worth it unless you are really hooked.

I’m intrigued by this. Can you please share more? Maybe an example of two?

Okay. I will try.

I have another kid and we recently visited on of the colleges that was on your student’s list.

We went on the college tour and really listened to everything said; scoured the brochures and website; and compared this place to other school/programs we knew.

We walked away thinking that this is a top university, but is not a top STEM university. The course depth and opportunities in the areas that my kid wants to focus on just wasn’t as prominent or plentiful as you would find in a STEM focused school. We had visited several STEM focused schools and could see the difference. Therefore the school, though a top school, would not be a good fit for my kid.

Now the school will try to say that they are big in Engineering (which they are good at, but not necessarily the biggest name). Our take was that they were more of a liberal arts focused school with a good engineering department, which is different than being a strong engineering school.

Compare that to let’s say UMD College Park. As soon as you walk on campus, the whole quad on the right is focused on the Sciences and Engineering. Wind Tunnel building, new Tech buildings and CS/AI. Biological and agricultural science. The school’s media emphasizes the millions invested in programs for STEM and top labs, research, etc.

College Park offers many disciplines of learning. But any student visiting there would clearly see the strong focus on STEM. The same goes to Rochester, Rutgers NB (chemistry molecule statue), Case and so many others. Again, surprised that these schools were not on your list. They ooze STEM and premed and some tech. They have hospitals and medical schools. You can’t get more premed than that.

Another college that we visited recently added a very specialized STEM-related department that would allow students to gain on campus experience in a certain area. What the college isn’t saying is that their graduates have been disadvantaged in this area without specific experience. So the school decided to invest in adding some experience in this area to make future grads more competitive. I won’t name the school, but it is a school that is trying to build out a bigger premed presence. They’ve also added student internships in medicine around the world to the curriculum for premed students, another key way to gain clinic hours during the school year.

So it’s there if you know what to look for.

Look at how the school invests its money. Look at how students spend their time. Look at disciplines that are prized on campus and in the broader educational community, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah, she wasn’t realistic about a lot of these colleges. I’m pp whose DC got into 8 schools a while back.

I agree with other posters. You have to do lots of research to get good outcomes. And I mean a lot of research. And then you have to be very realistic about the game and how you can win at it.

We were lucky because 1) my kid was not a 1500+ student; 2) the Ivies were never a consideration because of it, and 3) a few other “street smart” factors that we homed in on that narrowed our focus.

Colleges tell you who they are without necessarily telling you who they are if you are researching well and asking the right questions.

My last thought is that very few students should be applying to Ivies. It’s too hard to win at that game, and the penalty of losing other options early on is just not worth it unless you are really hooked.

I’m intrigued by this. Can you please share more? Maybe an example of two?

If you want good examples of how to approach elite admissions try these:

Applying sideways MIT blog: https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/applying_sideways/

The thoughts are pertinent to any highly rejective school and should be taken to heart as someone try's to determine if they are a 'fit' at a school.

And this GT blog about Institutional Priorities: https://sites.gatech.edu/admission-blog/2023/03/06/the-two-most-important-letters-in-college-admission/

both of these will provide needed perspective to the process.

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else facing a lot of disappointment during this cycle? DD got into a couple target schools + most of her safeties... Rejected or WL from the rest. She was (imo and told to us by many others) a great applicant - High stats, great ECs + essays, LORs... Her interviews all went very well, especially JHU. She applied to JHU EA and the rest RD, and we're from NOVA. Intended major is BME (biomed engineering).

Stats:
4.0 UW/4.7 W GPA
1570 SAT (800 M, 770 R&W)
14 APs, all 5s

ECs:
- A few regional awards (STEM)
- 200+ volunteer hours @ local hospital
- Founder of non-profit
- Research w/ prof at T30
- Competitive summer program for BME
- Lots of community service

Results:
JHU EA - Deferred -> Rejected
Princeton - Rejected
Brown - Rejected
Dartmouth - Rejected
Columbia - Rejected
Duke - Rejected
UVA - WL
Cornell - WL
CMU - WL
UNC CH - WL
VT - Accepted
W&M - Accepted
Lehigh - Accepted
UPitt - Accepted

DD is incredibly upset and so are we... JHU was her dream school but she relied on UVA + CMU as well. Anyone here confused and facing a similar situation?We all were convinced that DD had it in the bag - Worst of all is that many of her classmates w/ lower stats and worse ECs have gotten into a few of these schools.

Your DD sounds amazing to me. So amazing that I can see why a lot of people on this forum thought you were a troll and these admission results are fake. You must be so proud of her. She will do great and have a great time no matter where she decides to go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I think it’s wrong that our current college admissions process is becoming like Korea, China or India where children lose their childhoods spending 10 hour days cramming to score high enough or pressured to abandon all ethics and cheat whenever possible to get a coveted seat at the few respected institutions. Whether you win the lottery or not, you have lost more than you gained along the way.

You can easily choose not to go down that path.

My High stats kid did (1500/3.95 UW/8 AP).
They choose to mostly do STEM APs and AP Psych (easy and more importantly they liked Psychology)
They skipped APUSH/AP Eng/AP Spanish/French, because while they could easily do the course and get an A/A-, they didn't want to add 15-20+ hours/week of coursework. They wanted to dance 15-20hr+/week and enjoy HS just a bit. So they took AP Calc AB&BC, AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Physics Mech, AP CompSci A, etc. And skipped the time consuming (for them) Humanities/LA AP courses.
Now, maybe that is what prevented them from getting into reaches, who knows. What I do know is my kid had the academic HS experience they wanted (aside from Covid and classes from their bed for 1.5 years) We felt it was important that my kid get 5-6 hours of sleep each night not 3-4. And they were not giving up dance, they did what they wanted to with that

My kid got WL at one reach, rejected at 3, in at NEU Global Scholars, and in at 4 Targets and 3 safeties. And they are very happy where they are, and excelling for their future.

More importantly HS was not 4 years of misery doing things just because they might get into a T10 school

Someone will come along shortly and say your kid is not well rounded and can't read a 400 year old book and can't pick out countries from a map

Yeah and that someone will be an idiot. Like you need to take APUSH to learn history

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nah, she wasn’t realistic about a lot of these colleges. I’m pp whose DC got into 8 schools a while back.

I agree with other posters. You have to do lots of research to get good outcomes. And I mean a lot of research. And then you have to be very realistic about the game and how you can win at it.

We were lucky because 1) my kid was not a 1500+ student; 2) the Ivies were never a consideration because of it, and 3) a few other “street smart” factors that we homed in on that narrowed our focus.

Colleges tell you who they are without necessarily telling you who they are if you are researching well and asking the right questions.

My last thought is that very few students should be applying to Ivies. It’s too hard to win at that game, and the penalty of losing other options early on is just not worth it unless you are really hooked.

I’m intrigued by this. Can you please share more? Maybe an example of two?

Do your research on the school, when you visit or have an interview ask meaningful questions that demonstrate you are seriously considering attending the school. It's not difficult. Basically research enough in your area of interest to ask questions that 999 other people do not ask daily.

Anonymous wrote:Nah, she wasn’t realistic about a lot of these colleges. I’m pp whose DC got into 8 schools a while back.

I agree with other posters. You have to do lots of research to get good outcomes. And I mean a lot of research. And then you have to be very realistic about the game and how you can win at it.

We were lucky because 1) my kid was not a 1500+ student; 2) the Ivies were never a consideration because of it, and 3) a few other “street smart” factors that we homed in on that narrowed our focus.

Colleges tell you who they are without necessarily telling you who they are if you are researching well and asking the right questions.

My last thought is that very few students should be applying to Ivies. It’s too hard to win at that game, and the penalty of losing other options early on is just not worth it unless you are really hooked.

My 1200/3.5UW/No AP kid got into all of their school. Why? Because they applied to Targets and safeties. They were at the 50% or above for all of them. They got into 4 schools in the 70-90 range, 3 with good merit (30-40% of tuition), and several in the 100+ that gave them 65% of tuition (at 2) because my kid was at the 80/85% for stats at those schools. They had a great college experience--perfect for them, graduated and started a job 2 weeks later and never looked back.
They knew that "reaches" were not for them---they are not an academically driven kid, and were sick of school. They just knew they needed a college degree to go farther in life (and yes, they do, because they are not the type to want to be a mechanic/HVAC/Plumber/etc, so yes a BA/BS will open many more doors in life for them). And you know what, the did well in college, because they worked hard but it's easier to excel academically when you are not in an overly competitive environment and you are not in the 10th percentile of "smartness". The ultimate goal is to get the degree and use it to start a career.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harsh comments on this thread. Didn’t read them all

To the OP, I think college acceptances are a big farce. We pretend like if this child just had diff ECs or something else her outcomes would have been different. I know two kids admitted to Ivies this cycle that are very average (no leadership, hard working but not brilliant). Why were they admitted? Because they come from rural communities and are economically disadvantaged according to the college’s formula. That gave them the boost to get admitted. Kids from the DC region are on a whole other playing field. It really opened my eyes that admissions is a joke and we are pretending that our kids have some control over the process.

Strongly agree. There is nothing wrong with OP’s profile. What’s wrong is a corrupt admissions process that favors rich people through ED, athletes and often legacies and more. No one should be so invested in affirming the current admissions process that they blame this child, especially with racist Asian stereotypes. OP’s kid will do great at any of the colleges she was accepted to. W&M and Pitt seem to have many happy students! OP, I suggest you have this thread locked and stop subjecting yoursef and your kid to these insults.

For the final time: Anyone can do ED. You just have to run the NPC and be prepared to pay what the school says you "can pay". If you can't pay what they say, well then you should not ED. Or if you "could pay but want the opportunity to see what merit offers a kid gets" well then ED is not for you. But you could choose to ED and pay
So yeah, kids whose parents have planned and saved for college can ED, and it's not just rich kids. There are plenty of MC/UMC parents who chose to save and make education a priority. If you didn't don't complain now

Glad this is the final time you write this drivel. Many of us disagree with you.

DP - You can disagree all you want, but you would be wrong, and PP is right.

Please tell me what PP typed that you disagree with.

90% of you people don't know the difference between a reach, target and safety. Multiple posters classifying UVA, VT, WM and Lehigh as REACHES. BS. All are TARGETS. The fact that OP was WL at one and accepted at three confirms that. People are rarely accepted to reaches. Thats why they are reaches!