Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 16:25     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are we caring so much if mice were in house or outbuilding?

It’s the anecdata experts that declare IT WAS IN THE HOUSE. Especially since some have insisted you have to be wallowing in it. Everyone who knows about the science of hantavirus understands it could have been in the house, but it’s more likely that it was elsewhere. Some people are just sick of misinformation and projection.

Same thing for the family situation. You have people making absolute statements based on their personal experiences instead of taking the known facts about the Hackman family and drawing some conclusions from that.


Known facts about Gene Hackman are that he was 95, had advanced demebtia, and lay on the floor dead for at least a week and no family members came to check on him.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 15:50     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Anonymous wrote:Why are we caring so much if mice were in house or outbuilding?

It’s the anecdata experts that declare IT WAS IN THE HOUSE. Especially since some have insisted you have to be wallowing in it. Everyone who knows about the science of hantavirus understands it could have been in the house, but it’s more likely that it was elsewhere. Some people are just sick of misinformation and projection.

Same thing for the family situation. You have people making absolute statements based on their personal experiences instead of taking the known facts about the Hackman family and drawing some conclusions from that.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 15:11     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Why are we caring so much if mice were in house or outbuilding?
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 15:07     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where was she that she was inhaling rodent union and droppings to contract hantavirus?

It happens all the time in the South West. Totally clean house, and you can't detect there are rodents in your walls and ceiling. They poop and pee and you breathe in Hanta.


There were only 7 cases in New Mexico in 2024. So not “all the time,” and people typically aren’t exposed just by sitting in the house.


+1

The chance of the average person contracting hantavirus is something like .0071%, I read.


I don't understand how she could get this. I was cleaning out a crawlspace and discovered mouse droppings and stopped. No Hantavirus, thank goodness.

So, how could someone get it just going about daily life? I think I read dogs do not get this virus so I don't think they could have passed it to her.


You didn’t get it bc most mice around here (assuming you live here) don’t carry it. It’s more common out there, but still not common, period.

Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 15:01     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Anonymous wrote:Here. It's not the first time people have gotten it. Cabin campers all know to beware. Tell me you haven't been to the desert...
https://www.nmhealth.org/about/erd/ideb/zdp/hps/


I just read 5 more articles from when they were first found and everyone suspected carbon monoxide poisoning. They said that a maintenance worker who had been there to do pest control, found the bodies in the house.

Why is it so hard to believe that their house/living space had mice? I read an article from the Times that stated there were several places around the properties that showed evidence of mice openings/cracks.

Having a mouse inside of a house doesn’t necessarily mean that the home was in squalor. What it does mean is that mice got in, and stayed for a while. Unfortunately, like most mice, they were disease carrying. Several reports found the back door open when they found the bodies, and several doors unlocked. So they kept at least one door open throughout the day, where mice could have entered. This is how the remaining dogs were able to go in and out for water and food while they were dead.

She contacted pest control or had them set up on contract to come out to the house. So there was a problem on the property. Unfortunately, she just didn’t follow through or do enough and the mice were diseased.

As I shared earlier, when one or two mice get in the main house, it does not take long for droppings to follow. Droppings are toxic. And mice multiply every few weeks, so 2 mice become 10 mice very quickly (and more droppings).

Too much on her plate to handle the pest problem effectively. They could have kept a clean looking house, but they still had mice in the house. And even if the mice were originally somewhere else on the property, keeping a back door wide open invites them
Inside to breed.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 14:10     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Regardless, a 65 year old woman caring for a 95 year old man with advanced dementia needed more contact/visits/oversight/assistance from family members, a housekeeper, groundskeepers, etc. The way they died is a needless tragedy.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 14:07     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Here. It's not the first time people have gotten it. Cabin campers all know to beware. Tell me you haven't been to the desert...
https://www.nmhealth.org/about/erd/ideb/zdp/hps/
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 13:56     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where was she that she was inhaling rodent union and droppings to contract hantavirus?

It happens all the time in the South West. Totally clean house, and you can't detect there are rodents in your walls and ceiling. They poop and pee and you breathe in Hanta.


There were only 7 cases in New Mexico in 2024. So not “all the time,” and people typically aren’t exposed just by sitting in the house.


+1

The chance of the average person contracting hantavirus is something like .0071%, I read.


I don't understand how she could get this. I was cleaning out a crawlspace and discovered mouse droppings and stopped. No Hantavirus, thank goodness.

So, how could someone get it just going about daily life? I think I read dogs do not get this virus so I don't think they could have passed it to her.


We don’t know what activities she was doing. A property that big usually has sheds and outbuildings, and that might be where there were infected mice, not the main house. Maybe she was moving things in a shed or sweeping them out.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 13:51     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where was she that she was inhaling rodent union and droppings to contract hantavirus?

It happens all the time in the South West. Totally clean house, and you can't detect there are rodents in your walls and ceiling. They poop and pee and you breathe in Hanta.


There were only 7 cases in New Mexico in 2024. So not “all the time,” and people typically aren’t exposed just by sitting in the house.


+1

The chance of the average person contracting hantavirus is something like .0071%, I read.


I don't understand how she could get this. I was cleaning out a crawlspace and discovered mouse droppings and stopped. No Hantavirus, thank goodness.

So, how could someone get it just going about daily life? I think I read dogs do not get this virus so I don't think they could have passed it to her.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 13:47     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Betsy died first from Hantavirus. She was in the bathroom getting her daily prescription when she was overcome, collapsed and expired.

Gene was in poor health plus Alzheimer's. With Betsy gone, he was not getting his daily meds. Subsequently he too expired several days later as his body couldn't function without the heart medications.

The poor dog in the crate expired from lack of water. It's interesting the two other dogs survived - but what were they eating and drinking? Perhaps there was a natural water source they had access to. If they were running at large, were they roaming throughout the neighborhood? How is it possible nobody thought that was strange? Were they always roaming? I would have to guess Betsy treated them like her babies, and they would not ordinarily be roaming at large.


It's a big property so they might have been able to do a lot of roaming without leaving. The door was open and they would have been able to get water from the toilets (and there would be multiple bathrooms in a large, expensive property) and any food they could reach in the kitchen and the trash cans. And they might have had other water sources, too, like maybe there was a birdbath or fountain on the property.



I've heard of dogs opening jars if they are hungry enough...
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 13:44     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Did she not call a pest control company? Did the pest control person not find her body?

She had to have had a mouse problem or they wouldn’t have been on the premises.


I really admired Gene as an actor, but no one knows how they lived. It’s hard to think of it that way, but they had a mouse problem that went unchecked. And yes, I’m the one who mentioned pet food. Could have been one of the bowls at the home got infected from a deer mouse. But the bowl was still in or very near the house. Also a possibility.

But she knew of the problem or an exterminator would not have visited.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 13:39     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Anonymous wrote:Here is what I say. I guess the cdc and a bunch of other authorities on deer mice are just all crazies and don’t know what they are talking about.

Also, at 95 years old, with advanced dementia, they should have had a nurse or someone assisting Gene. I went through this with two parents. It was harrowing! Trying to keep someone clean, fed and watching after them, day in and day out, when their brains are pretty far gone, plus taking care of pets, a huge house, etc. that was way too much for her to take on by herself.




https://www.pestworld.org/pest-guide/rodents/deer-mice/



Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 13:39     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Here is what I say. I guess the cdc and a bunch of other authorities on deer mice are just all crazies and don’t know what they are talking about.

Also, at 95 years old, with advanced dementia, they should have had a nurse or someone assisting Gene. I went through this with two parents. It was harrowing! Trying to keep someone clean, fed and watching after them, day in and day out, when their brains are pretty far gone, plus taking care of pets, a huge house, etc. that was way too much for her to take on by herself.




https://www.pestworld.org/pest-guide/rodents/deer-mice/

Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 13:31     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not really. I counter both of your takes. I have personal experience with this, and we keep our house pretty darn clean. Too many factors at play here that I feel support my assertion. And both of my parents died from dementia.

We called pest control once we observed droppings that seemed to have happened in many rooms/furniture in our house, in a short period of time(2-4weeks). We went from top to bottom and corrected. New installation in attic, treatments in house, treatments outside of house. Plus, we had to seal any potential entry points along roof, side of house, garage, etc. we bleached floors and wiped down counters, and stored everything in our pantries and on countertops in plastic containers. It was costly but timely. And we found our suspects. The traps worked. Even now, several months later, we still have a monthly service that inspects all areas and sprays each month.

Now that was for fewer than 5 or 10 mice at most.

Given the excruciating efforts that we went thru to rid of our mice problem (and no, we do not live on sprawling estate, and have neighbors and forested areas nearby, I can assure you that two people—one aged 65 who was a caregiver and one aged 95 who had advanced dementia, and with 3 dogs on the property, did not undertake the steps that an Orkin or pest control company would recommend to eradicate a problem like that. And I think that with a disease like hantavirus that is known to be present in the area, that they would recommend a scorched earth approach given the chance for fatalities if the problem we’re not properly contained.


Mice don’t limit themselves to one building or one stockpile of wood. They go to where the food or warmth is. They travel often and frequently at night or out of sight. And they are quiet. The only way we knew was thru droppings all over the house, which have to be removed in a careful way to not cause the spread of disease.

I guarantee non of this happened with them. The problem got out of control. They probably called pest control but it was too late.


It’s sad, but I’m sure my account, based on experience, is closer to the truth than her catching it in a shed on the property.

Year down the house and you will see a lot of mice fleeing.



It’s clear you have not read any of the multiple science articles about Hanta posted here and you almost certainly don’t live west of the Mississippi. Your personal experience is not relevant.


You don’t know that at all because your premise is false. Spent many years west of the Mississippi.

I have read nearly 10-15 articles on this recently. Completely similar. Mice are mice. They had a rodent problem in the house.

Ok, psychic weirdo. Whatever you say. If you had read one you would know it’s much more likely she contracted it in an outbuilding, outdoors, or as someone pointed out the pet store. The house is possible, not probable. Lord save us from the anecdata cult.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2025 13:29     Subject: Gene Hackman R.I.P.
It was in the outbuildings.
He likely never went in them.
She may have used them for storage, kept garden stuff there, etc.