Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pandemic has made people very selfish. Using the reasoning in this thread, one could question almost any public/social expenditure. Why should old people pay taxes for your kid’s education? Why should today’s workers fund Social Security for old people? Why should US taxpayers pay for the defense of Ukraine? I hope people on this thread realize that their isolationist arguments are at the core of social disintegration. They may think that they’ve isolated themselves in a larger home in the distant suburbs, working from home visiting the local deli, but their retirement funds are still in the stock market and their neighborhood isn’t that far from a decaying city. We’re all more interconnected than most seem to realize.

Lol. The selfish thing is forcing middle-class workers to waste 1-2 hrs of their day commuting to save the giant corporate interests of commercial real estate. It’s just not a tenable moral claim, I’m sorry.

You are myopically focused on CRE interests. You need to think a little larger.

Apple owns its own headquarters, not a CRE company. It is also a tech savvy company. Yet, it still wants its workers in the office. Explain that to yourself.

High tech person here from the valley. This is way oversimplifying a complex situation. Google and Apple aren’t CRE, not the way you think of landlords. But they were facing severe writedowns on the empty buildings. They can’t take millions in hits from holding unused, depreciating assets. They also want a market to sell property into. And they lease property. Google in particular has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in purchasing commercial real estate around the world, but particularly in places like NY and Silicon Valley. They were facing a critical issue if those became unused assets, the hit to their bottom line would be enormous.

I know many, many people who work at one of the FAANG companies. The only people I know who are in the office five days a week, fulltime are people who work in hardware labs or other jobs requiring onsite machinery. Everyone else is either fully remote or some form of hybrid. It’s not the case that everyone is back in the office 9-5.

BigTech is struggling with the same issue that the feds seem to be struggling with: if you use RTO to make up for weak performance management skills for poor performers, you risk alienating your high performers, especially now that the job market here is picking back up. So they do this form of RTO where people badge in twice a week (for instance) but look the other way as to when exactly their high performers leave.

The number of recruiting emails I get has really kicked up in the past few months and they all promise hybrid flexibility up front. So, I don’t think full RTO is really going to be a sell for companies.

Anyhow it’s complicated but certainly not as straightforward as you indicated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pandemic has made people very selfish. Using the reasoning in this thread, one could question almost any public/social expenditure. Why should old people pay taxes for your kid’s education? Why should today’s workers fund Social Security for old people? Why should US taxpayers pay for the defense of Ukraine? I hope people on this thread realize that their isolationist arguments are at the core of social disintegration. They may think that they’ve isolated themselves in a larger home in the distant suburbs, working from home visiting the local deli, but their retirement funds are still in the stock market and their neighborhood isn’t that far from a decaying city. We’re all more interconnected than most seem to realize.

+1. It’s a domino effect.

If commercial real estate collapses, that affects the entire economy.

It also highlights the laptop class’s attitude. Who gives a crap about those cities that are crime-ridden and full of homeless on the streets with shuddered businesses and buildings as their tax base has fled? We’re good in the ‘burbs!

It’s not that I don’t care, but we need to adapt to the new reality and repurpose some of these spaces. You know why we live in the burbs? Partly because the city was too expensive. Maybe convert some of these empty buildings into more affordable housing. You can’t cling to an old model that the cities themselves helped take down during the pandemic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country cannot tolerate WFH.

Banks are sh!tting bricks right now about huge losses they would be on the hook for as commercial real estate values tank due to WFH. City govts across the country are also in deep dookie as they are losing massive amounts of tax revenue due to commercial real estate vacancies. Converting offices to living space doesn’t solve the problem either, because local govts get 2x the amount of tax revenue from commercial RE as they do from residential.

Biden is moving t push fir RTO because our banking overlords will losing trillions of dollars due to huge losses in commercial RE value. Tons of local govts will also go bankrupt and spiral into insolvency. SF has now blown up its budget and is running almost $1B in the red now. DC warned the same, and is almost $500M in the red over the coming years due to huge losses in tax revenue from office vacancies. Our entire stupid system is built upon RE speculation, thus when the model gets completely upended the country is now at dire risk for a massive black swan event that will crater the economy. All it is going to take is one bank going belly up and citing commercial RE losses for a economic maelstrom to be unleashed.

Biden didn’t order Feds to RTO. A member of his staff wrote a lukewarm memo. If the President was serious about RTO, he could simply demand tomorrow all feds report. By the way it’s not the responsibility of the good citizens of MD an VA to prop up the District’s economy. I guarantee you that a month from now commuting into DC will be unchanged from what it’s been over the past 18 months. No agency head is going to give two cents to what Zients says.

This. Our agency is plowing ahead with giving up space and moving to a hotelling model for the two days a pay period we’re required to be in office.

Anonymous wrote:The pandemic has made people very selfish. Using the reasoning in this thread, one could question almost any public/social expenditure. Why should old people pay taxes for your kid’s education? Why should today’s workers fund Social Security for old people? Why should US taxpayers pay for the defense of Ukraine? I hope people on this thread realize that their isolationist arguments are at the core of social disintegration. They may think that they’ve isolated themselves in a larger home in the distant suburbs, working from home visiting the local deli, but their retirement funds are still in the stock market and their neighborhood isn’t that far from a decaying city. We’re all more interconnected than most seem to realize.

+1. It’s a domino effect.

If commercial real estate collapses, that affects the entire economy.

It also highlights the laptop class’s attitude. Who gives a crap about those cities that are crime-ridden and full of homeless on the streets with shuddered businesses and buildings as their tax base has fled? We’re good in the ‘burbs!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bad move. I'm a DOJ attorney, and constantly evaluating my private sector options. If WFH is reduced, I'll go with the money, understanding that I am being paid more and going in at least as often.

bye,, I can't stand working from home anymore. it's so damn depressing to be alone all day, there been days that I don't talk to a single person...

Resign

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pandemic has made people very selfish. Using the reasoning in this thread, one could question almost any public/social expenditure. Why should old people pay taxes for your kid’s education? Why should today’s workers fund Social Security for old people? Why should US taxpayers pay for the defense of Ukraine? I hope people on this thread realize that their isolationist arguments are at the core of social disintegration. They may think that they’ve isolated themselves in a larger home in the distant suburbs, working from home visiting the local deli, but their retirement funds are still in the stock market and their neighborhood isn’t that far from a decaying city. We’re all more interconnected than most seem to realize.

Lol. The selfish thing is forcing middle-class workers to waste 1-2 hrs of their day commuting to save the giant corporate interests of commercial real estate. It’s just not a tenable moral claim, I’m sorry.

+100

I can’t believe anyone is trying to disguise basically bailouts of the CRE industry on the backs of already underpaid (compared to skilled private sector peers) government employees as some sort of sacrifice for the greater good.

What’s next, should we all go back to using coal because it’s not fair that new technologies change things?

Right? I have to care about the "greater good" by burning gas to get to my office that isn't anywhere near metro or food businesses anyway, but the rest of the country doesn't have to "sacrifice" by paying me enough to live near work. I would LOVE to have a short commute. I'd LOVE it. But I don't get paid enough because that's already a sacrifice government employees sign up for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pandemic has made people very selfish. Using the reasoning in this thread, one could question almost any public/social expenditure. Why should old people pay taxes for your kid’s education? Why should today’s workers fund Social Security for old people? Why should US taxpayers pay for the defense of Ukraine? I hope people on this thread realize that their isolationist arguments are at the core of social disintegration. They may think that they’ve isolated themselves in a larger home in the distant suburbs, working from home visiting the local deli, but their retirement funds are still in the stock market and their neighborhood isn’t that far from a decaying city. We’re all more interconnected than most seem to realize.

Lol. The selfish thing is forcing middle-class workers to waste 1-2 hrs of their day commuting to save the giant corporate interests of commercial real estate. It’s just not a tenable moral claim, I’m sorry.

You are myopically focused on CRE interests. You need to think a little larger.

Apple owns its own headquarters, not a CRE company. It is also a tech savvy company. Yet, it still wants its workers in the office. Explain that to yourself.

Does Apple follow GS pay scales?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a bad move. I'm a DOJ attorney, and constantly evaluating my private sector options. If WFH is reduced, I'll go with the money, understanding that I am being paid more and going in at least as often.

bye,, I can't stand working from home anymore. it's so damn depressing to be alone all day, there been days that I don't talk to a single person...

So like … sign up for an exercise class? You could go on neighborhood walks on your lunch break. Pop into your neighborhood coffee shop or something? It’s not your coworkers’ job to commute in so you have someone to talk to.

I’ll add this is why I knew close-in walkable neighborhoods wouldn’t fall apart with WAH as some people in the real estate forum predicted. Socialization is still important. Except now I get it in my neighborhood. Without going into the office I have more time to walk to get coffee, meet with neighbors/friends (some are even coworkers that I socialize with outside of work) for lunch, the gym, my DS’s preschool, etc. I can walk my kids to the park after school. Every day I am dressed and socializing, just not in an office.

And before you accuse me of not working, I’m allowed to flex hours / use a flex band so I can fit these things in. DH also WAH so we can stagger things with getting kids ready.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pandemic has made people very selfish. Using the reasoning in this thread, one could question almost any public/social expenditure. Why should old people pay taxes for your kid’s education? Why should today’s workers fund Social Security for old people? Why should US taxpayers pay for the defense of Ukraine? I hope people on this thread realize that their isolationist arguments are at the core of social disintegration. They may think that they’ve isolated themselves in a larger home in the distant suburbs, working from home visiting the local deli, but their retirement funds are still in the stock market and their neighborhood isn’t that far from a decaying city. We’re all more interconnected than most seem to realize.

Lol. The selfish thing is forcing middle-class workers to waste 1-2 hrs of their day commuting to save the giant corporate interests of commercial real estate. It’s just not a tenable moral claim, I’m sorry.

You are myopically focused on CRE interests. You need to think a little larger.

Apple owns its own headquarters, not a CRE company. It is also a tech savvy company. Yet, it still wants its workers in the office. Explain that to yourself.

What do Apple and my federal employer have in common? But sure - if the feds would like to pay me an Apple salary and build me an office complex like in Cupertino, maybe I’ll consider it.

Anonymous wrote:

Apple owns its own headquarters, not a CRE company. It is also a tech savvy company. Yet, it still wants its workers in the office. Explain that to yourself.

I don't know about Apple specifically, but in many cases these corporate HQs are built in a certain location under an agreement with the local government for tax benefits and other financial incentives. That package of benefits/incentives is based on a certain# of employees being physically present, and so companies are calling employees back in order to satisfy the requirements of their agreement with the local government, not because it's better from an actual get the work done standpoint

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pandemic has made people very selfish. Using the reasoning in this thread, one could question almost any public/social expenditure. Why should old people pay taxes for your kid’s education? Why should today’s workers fund Social Security for old people? Why should US taxpayers pay for the defense of Ukraine? I hope people on this thread realize that their isolationist arguments are at the core of social disintegration. They may think that they’ve isolated themselves in a larger home in the distant suburbs, working from home visiting the local deli, but their retirement funds are still in the stock market and their neighborhood isn’t that far from a decaying city. We’re all more interconnected than most seem to realize.

Lol. The selfish thing is forcing middle-class workers to waste 1-2 hrs of their day commuting to save the giant corporate interests of commercial real estate. It’s just not a tenable moral claim, I’m sorry.

+100

I can’t believe anyone is trying to disguise basically bailouts of the CRE industry on the backs of already underpaid (compared to skilled private sector peers) government employees as some sort of sacrifice for the greater good.

What’s next, should we all go back to using coal because it’s not fair that new technologies change things?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The pandemic has made people very selfish. Using the reasoning in this thread, one could question almost any public/social expenditure. Why should old people pay taxes for your kid’s education? Why should today’s workers fund Social Security for old people? Why should US taxpayers pay for the defense of Ukraine? I hope people on this thread realize that their isolationist arguments are at the core of social disintegration. They may think that they’ve isolated themselves in a larger home in the distant suburbs, working from home visiting the local deli, but their retirement funds are still in the stock market and their neighborhood isn’t that far from a decaying city. We’re all more interconnected than most seem to realize.

Lol. The selfish thing is forcing middle-class workers to waste 1-2 hrs of their day commuting to save the giant corporate interests of commercial real estate. It’s just not a tenable moral claim, I’m sorry.

You are myopically focused on CRE interests. You need to think a little larger.

Apple owns its own headquarters, not a CRE company. It is also a tech savvy company. Yet, it still wants its workers in the office. Explain that to yourself.

Anonymous wrote:It's a bad move. I'm a DOJ attorney, and constantly evaluating my private sector options. If WFH is reduced, I'll go with the money, understanding that I am being paid more and going in at least as often.

bye,, I can't stand working from home anymore. it's so damn depressing to be alone all day, there been days that I don't talk to a single person...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country cannot tolerate WFH.

Banks are sh!tting bricks right now about huge losses they would be on the hook for as commercial real estate values tank due to WFH. City govts across the country are also in deep dookie as they are losing massive amounts of tax revenue due to commercial real estate vacancies. Converting offices to living space doesn’t solve the problem either, because local govts get 2x the amount of tax revenue from commercial RE as they do from residential.

Biden is moving t push fir RTO because our banking overlords will losing trillions of dollars due to huge losses in commercial RE value. Tons of local govts will also go bankrupt and spiral into insolvency. SF has now blown up its budget and is running almost $1B in the red now. DC warned the same, and is almost $500M in the red over the coming years due to huge losses in tax revenue from office vacancies. Our entire stupid system is built upon RE speculation, thus when the model gets completely upended the country is now at dire risk for a massive black swan event that will crater the economy. All it is going to take is one bank going belly up and citing commercial RE losses for a economic maelstrom to be unleashed.

Biden didn’t order Feds to RTO. A member of his staff wrote a lukewarm memo. If the President was serious about RTO, he could simply demand tomorrow all feds report. By the way it’s not the responsibility of the good citizens of MD an VA to prop up the District’s economy. I guarantee you that a month from now commuting into DC will be unchanged from what it’s been over the past 18 months. No agency head is going to give two cents to what Zients says.

You don’t know politics obviously. That’s not how it works. COS speaks for the president.

No they don’t.

So, you think Zients sent this out without Biden's blessing? Only 15 months before the election?

Could care less what Zients sent out. He has ABSOLUTELY ZERO authority over agency heads. The President does though and if this were an issue he would speak out on it. I guarantee there will be no significant impact from this announcement. If you think we Feds will RTO from this memo, I have a bridge to sell you.
It’s obvious you have no idea how politics work.

Pure idiot here.

Where’s the EO from the boss then? No agency head is going to take a stand-alone memo from a staff member seriously without a corresponding diktat from the President. Heck, unpaid interns know to place a memo from someone like Zients at the bottom of the pile. All you people hoping RTO happens or feds who are sweating this inconsequential memo are wasting your energy.

Anonymous wrote:I was a Fed for 20 years before I retired, so I have sympathy for some of the positions on this thread, but many in the country do not. Judging by the threads on DCUM, a lot of federal workers have become smug in their WFH jammies. I’m a Democrat, but I fear that a Republican government will make arrogant federal workers exhibit one when they assume power and seek to rally the masses against the Deep State. Beware that you’re sowing the seeds of your own demise. You are living in a bubble that’s going to pop. Prepare accordingly.

So Republicans really prioritize Feds spending money on expensive leases so that the city of DC (which Republicans famously love) can maintain its tax revenue? Makes a lot of sense, totally consistent.