Anonymous
06/07/2020 08:39
Subject: The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What an amazing thread! People angry and upset over what the other side is rallying for as if public opinion will influence the decisions. Fortunately, science doesn't care about your feelings either way.
Shutting down an entire state was an unheard-of, unprecedented mandate. It was done because public health and safety is paramount to all else. That hasn't changed. Phases 1,2,3 and 4 will proceed as outlined by the governor. End of story.
It's funny that you think any of these decisions are still based in science. The initial round of closures were not even based on science, but rather fear and the unknown. Now, there is a completely different set of reasons for continuing this unnecessary pain.
+1. The continued school closures, and probably even the initial closures, are not based on science. WaPo has an article by an epidemiologist today that says as much:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/case-reopening-schools-this-fall/
All the people claiming these decisions are based on science really don't know what they are talking about. We are in a state of mass hysteria, as is evident from all the parents fearful for the safety of their kids if schools reopen, when Covid is significantly less dangerous for kids than the flu. I really hope those people are a minority and the pressure on public officials is going to mount to actually look at the evidence when making decisions about schools, and not basing them on everybody's gut feeling that kids spread germs and it's therefore too dangerous to operate schools.
I found the Post article interesting. Thank you for posting the link. There is, however, still reason for caution. As the article noted:
“Some of this data likely underestimates children’s potential to infect others because information was collected after lockdowns and other mitigation measures were implemented. Still, the findings from contact tracing and the significant biological differences between covid-19 and more common respiratory ailments suggest that children are not major sources of infection.”
The crucial question of whether child are or are not major sources of infection is not a settled argument.
"While most countries have shuttered schools, others such as Taiwan have achieved effective responses without closures. In Denmark and Norway, where schools began reopening in mid-April, covid-19 cases and deaths have decreased. Normally, gregarious youngsters are efficient spreaders of respiratory pathogens. But this appears not to be the case with covid-19.
There is evidence, however, that as with the earlier SARS outbreak, children who have covid-19 are less contagious than adults. Many children with covid-19 are asymptomatic; in the absence of coughing and sneezing, they emit fewer infectious droplets. Remarkably, contact tracing studies in China, Iceland, Britain and the Netherlands failed to locate a single case of child-to-adult infection out of thousands of transmission events analyzed. A review of studies from several Asian countries identified few cases of children bringing the virus home, and a recent analysis of covid-19 interventions found no evidence that school closures had helped contain the epidemic."
I think this says that children are not major source of infection. Thanks for posting the WaPo article.
So knowing al this information and research why wouldn’t schools open on time in August, it seems like a no brainer!
Anonymous
05/31/2020 20:32
Subject: The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
+1. The continued school closures, and probably even the initial closures, are not based on science. WaPo has an article by an epidemiologist today that says as much:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/case-reopening-schools-this-fall/
All the people claiming these decisions are based on science really don't know what they are talking about. We are in a state of mass hysteria, as is evident from all the parents fearful for the safety of their kids if schools reopen, when Covid is significantly less dangerous for kids than the flu. I really hope those people are a minority and the pressure on public officials is going to mount to actually look at the evidence when making decisions about schools, and not basing them on everybody's gut feeling that kids spread germs and it's therefore too dangerous to operate schools.
Kids aren't the only ones at school.
Also, I"m old enough to remember DCUM's position in March, which was CLOSE THE SCHOOLS NOW BECAUSE SCIENCE!
To take the position now that closing the schools was a hysterical overreaction...
There was a debate on this site in March. Some people wanted to close the schools; others were vehemently opposed.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 19:22
Subject: The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
+1. The continued school closures, and probably even the initial closures, are not based on science. WaPo has an article by an epidemiologist today that says as much:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/case-reopening-schools-this-fall/
All the people claiming these decisions are based on science really don't know what they are talking about. We are in a state of mass hysteria, as is evident from all the parents fearful for the safety of their kids if schools reopen, when Covid is significantly less dangerous for kids than the flu. I really hope those people are a minority and the pressure on public officials is going to mount to actually look at the evidence when making decisions about schools, and not basing them on everybody's gut feeling that kids spread germs and it's therefore too dangerous to operate schools.
Kids aren't the only ones at school.
Also, I"m old enough to remember DCUM's position in March, which was CLOSE THE SCHOOLS NOW BECAUSE SCIENCE!
To take the position now that closing the schools was a hysterical overreaction...
I know kids aren't the only ones at school. Reread my post - my point was clearly that I find it absurd if parents fear for the safety of their children, given how its severity in kids compares to the flu. That there are others at schools and in contact with kids who are at higher risk is obvious, and clearly the decision to keep schools closed would be for their benefit only, at the expense of the kids. But as the article in the Post lays out, there is no evidence so far that kids actually infect adults. Not only that, but in Sweden, where the schools never closed, they have less infections among children than in other European countries that did shut down the schools. Kids just don't appear to be very contagious with this virus.
Also, I am not "DCUM" (and I wasn't even reading it in March - I only came back now to see what people were saying about the potential school closures beyond the summer). I thought then that closing the schools was probably an overreaction not supported by actual scientific evidence, but a decision made out of an abundance of caution, so don't try to accuse me of hypocrisy.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 18:57
Subject: The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:
+1. The continued school closures, and probably even the initial closures, are not based on science. WaPo has an article by an epidemiologist today that says as much:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/case-reopening-schools-this-fall/
All the people claiming these decisions are based on science really don't know what they are talking about. We are in a state of mass hysteria, as is evident from all the parents fearful for the safety of their kids if schools reopen, when Covid is significantly less dangerous for kids than the flu. I really hope those people are a minority and the pressure on public officials is going to mount to actually look at the evidence when making decisions about schools, and not basing them on everybody's gut feeling that kids spread germs and it's therefore too dangerous to operate schools.
Kids aren't the only ones at school.
Also, I"m old enough to remember DCUM's position in March, which was CLOSE THE SCHOOLS NOW BECAUSE SCIENCE!
To take the position now that closing the schools was a hysterical overreaction...
Anonymous
05/31/2020 18:42
Subject: The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What an amazing thread! People angry and upset over what the other side is rallying for as if public opinion will influence the decisions. Fortunately, science doesn't care about your feelings either way.
Shutting down an entire state was an unheard-of, unprecedented mandate. It was done because public health and safety is paramount to all else. That hasn't changed. Phases 1,2,3 and 4 will proceed as outlined by the governor. End of story.
It's funny that you think any of these decisions are still based in science. The initial round of closures were not even based on science, but rather fear and the unknown. Now, there is a completely different set of reasons for continuing this unnecessary pain.
+1. The continued school closures, and probably even the initial closures, are not based on science. WaPo has an article by an epidemiologist today that says as much:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/case-reopening-schools-this-fall/
All the people claiming these decisions are based on science really don't know what they are talking about. We are in a state of mass hysteria, as is evident from all the parents fearful for the safety of their kids if schools reopen, when Covid is significantly less dangerous for kids than the flu. I really hope those people are a minority and the pressure on public officials is going to mount to actually look at the evidence when making decisions about schools, and not basing them on everybody's gut feeling that kids spread germs and it's therefore too dangerous to operate schools.
I found the Post article interesting. Thank you for posting the link. There is, however, still reason for caution. As the article noted:
“Some of this data likely underestimates children’s potential to infect others because information was collected after lockdowns and other mitigation measures were implemented. Still, the findings from contact tracing and the significant biological differences between covid-19 and more common respiratory ailments suggest that children are not major sources of infection.”
The crucial question of whether child are or are not major sources of infection is not a settled argument.
"While most countries have shuttered schools, others such as Taiwan have achieved effective responses without closures. In Denmark and Norway, where schools began reopening in mid-April, covid-19 cases and deaths have decreased. Normally, gregarious youngsters are efficient spreaders of respiratory pathogens. But this appears not to be the case with covid-19.
There is evidence, however, that as with the earlier SARS outbreak, children who have covid-19 are less contagious than adults. Many children with covid-19 are asymptomatic; in the absence of coughing and sneezing, they emit fewer infectious droplets. Remarkably, contact tracing studies in China, Iceland, Britain and the Netherlands failed to locate a single case of child-to-adult infection out of thousands of transmission events analyzed. A review of studies from several Asian countries identified few cases of children bringing the virus home, and a recent analysis of covid-19 interventions found no evidence that school closures had helped contain the epidemic."
I think this says that children are not major source of infection. Thanks for posting the WaPo article.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 17:52
Subject: The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What an amazing thread! People angry and upset over what the other side is rallying for as if public opinion will influence the decisions. Fortunately, science doesn't care about your feelings either way.
Shutting down an entire state was an unheard-of, unprecedented mandate. It was done because public health and safety is paramount to all else. That hasn't changed. Phases 1,2,3 and 4 will proceed as outlined by the governor. End of story.
It's funny that you think any of these decisions are still based in science. The initial round of closures were not even based on science, but rather fear and the unknown. Now, there is a completely different set of reasons for continuing this unnecessary pain.
+1. The continued school closures, and probably even the initial closures, are not based on science. WaPo has an article by an epidemiologist today that says as much:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/case-reopening-schools-this-fall/
All the people claiming these decisions are based on science really don't know what they are talking about. We are in a state of mass hysteria, as is evident from all the parents fearful for the safety of their kids if schools reopen, when Covid is significantly less dangerous for kids than the flu. I really hope those people are a minority and the pressure on public officials is going to mount to actually look at the evidence when making decisions about schools, and not basing them on everybody's gut feeling that kids spread germs and it's therefore too dangerous to operate schools.
I found the Post article interesting. Thank you for posting the link. There is, however, still reason for caution. As the article noted:
“Some of this data likely underestimates children’s potential to infect others because information was collected after lockdowns and other mitigation measures were implemented. Still, the findings from contact tracing and the significant biological differences between covid-19 and more common respiratory ailments suggest that children are not major sources of infection.”
The crucial question of whether child are or are not major sources of infection is not a settled argument.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 16:13
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I was one of the teachers who went back in today to pack up my room. I don’t know anyone who refused to go in because they were afraid of the virus. The pp really does not represent most teachers.
At my school 1/3 of the teachers did not come in to pack up their rooms. The percentage was much higher than our administration predicted. Now, they are reopening slots this week and trying to cajole people into coming in. It doesn’t help that they promised everyone would be temperature checked at the door, but in our group texts, no one was. Letting someone else pack your room seems like just as viable a choice as letting someone else get your groceries. Do InstaCart and Peapod users not represent most parents trying to feed their kids?
Not this parent. I'm shopping for my family, and I'm shopping for my parents, too.
Not our family either. We do our own shopping.
Is too. We ended delivery services end of March. We are healthy young and didn’t want to take a spot that should have been reserved for someone old and truly at risk. That’s when I started to realize the extreme over reaction to this. People were fully out shopping, many without masks and the Montco death rate never spiked in kind with what I was seeing, neither did the infection rate. Never happened.
Same here. I have been doing all our grocery shopping, despite the fact that my husband is immune compromised. I started wearing a mask before it became mandatory though, as I wanted to be extra careful because of him.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 16:10
Subject: The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What an amazing thread! People angry and upset over what the other side is rallying for as if public opinion will influence the decisions. Fortunately, science doesn't care about your feelings either way.
Shutting down an entire state was an unheard-of, unprecedented mandate. It was done because public health and safety is paramount to all else. That hasn't changed. Phases 1,2,3 and 4 will proceed as outlined by the governor. End of story.
It's funny that you think any of these decisions are still based in science. The initial round of closures were not even based on science, but rather fear and the unknown. Now, there is a completely different set of reasons for continuing this unnecessary pain.
+1. The continued school closures, and probably even the initial closures, are not based on science. WaPo has an article by an epidemiologist today that says as much:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/case-reopening-schools-this-fall/
All the people claiming these decisions are based on science really don't know what they are talking about. We are in a state of mass hysteria, as is evident from all the parents fearful for the safety of their kids if schools reopen, when Covid is significantly less dangerous for kids than the flu. I really hope those people are a minority and the pressure on public officials is going to mount to actually look at the evidence when making decisions about schools, and not basing them on everybody's gut feeling that kids spread germs and it's therefore too dangerous to operate schools.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 15:38
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:
Is too. We ended delivery services end of March. We are healthy young and didn’t want to take a spot that should have been reserved for someone old and truly at risk. That’s when I started to realize the extreme over reaction to this. People were fully out shopping, many without masks and the Montco death rate never spiked in kind with what I was seeing, neither did the infection rate. Never happened.
It never happened because many people stayed home.
If more people had stayed home (I'm not talking about the essential workers), we wouldn't even be arguing about this on the internet.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 15:15
Subject: The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:What an amazing thread! People angry and upset over what the other side is rallying for as if public opinion will influence the decisions. Fortunately, science doesn't care about your feelings either way.
Shutting down an entire state was an unheard-of, unprecedented mandate. It was done because public health and safety is paramount to all else. That hasn't changed. Phases 1,2,3 and 4 will proceed as outlined by the governor. End of story.
It's funny that you think any of these decisions are still based in science. The initial round of closures were not even based on science, but rather fear and the unknown. Now, there is a completely different set of reasons for continuing this unnecessary pain.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 14:59
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Go out today and it’s business as normal. Very few masks. Parking lots are packed as are grocery stores. The curve is flattened, infection rates are down. CDC now saying it’s not infecting through surfaces as first reported. No reason not to open schools with safety procedures in place.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 14:17
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I was one of the teachers who went back in today to pack up my room. I don’t know anyone who refused to go in because they were afraid of the virus. The pp really does not represent most teachers.
At my school 1/3 of the teachers did not come in to pack up their rooms. The percentage was much higher than our administration predicted. Now, they are reopening slots this week and trying to cajole people into coming in. It doesn’t help that they promised everyone would be temperature checked at the door, but in our group texts, no one was. Letting someone else pack your room seems like just as viable a choice as letting someone else get your groceries. Do InstaCart and Peapod users not represent most parents trying to feed their kids?
Not this parent. I'm shopping for my family, and I'm shopping for my parents, too.
Not our family either. We do our own shopping.
Is too. We ended delivery services end of March. We are healthy young and didn’t want to take a spot that should have been reserved for someone old and truly at risk. That’s when I started to realize the extreme over reaction to this. People were fully out shopping, many without masks and the Montco death rate never spiked in kind with what I was seeing, neither did the infection rate. Never happened.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 13:56
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I was one of the teachers who went back in today to pack up my room. I don’t know anyone who refused to go in because they were afraid of the virus. The pp really does not represent most teachers.
At my school 1/3 of the teachers did not come in to pack up their rooms. The percentage was much higher than our administration predicted. Now, they are reopening slots this week and trying to cajole people into coming in. It doesn’t help that they promised everyone would be temperature checked at the door, but in our group texts, no one was. Letting someone else pack your room seems like just as viable a choice as letting someone else get your groceries. Do InstaCart and Peapod users not represent most parents trying to feed their kids?
Not this parent. I'm shopping for my family, and I'm shopping for my parents, too.
Not our family either. We do our own shopping.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 11:56
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I was one of the teachers who went back in today to pack up my room. I don’t know anyone who refused to go in because they were afraid of the virus. The pp really does not represent most teachers.
At my school 1/3 of the teachers did not come in to pack up their rooms. The percentage was much higher than our administration predicted. Now, they are reopening slots this week and trying to cajole people into coming in. It doesn’t help that they promised everyone would be temperature checked at the door, but in our group texts, no one was. Letting someone else pack your room seems like just as viable a choice as letting someone else get your groceries. Do InstaCart and Peapod users not represent most parents trying to feed their kids?
Not this parent. I'm shopping for my family, and I'm shopping for my parents, too.
Anonymous
05/31/2020 08:54
Subject: Re:The prospect of kids not going back to school until 2021
Anonymous wrote:I was one of the teachers who went back in today to pack up my room. I don’t know anyone who refused to go in because they were afraid of the virus. The pp really does not represent most teachers.
At my school 1/3 of the teachers did not come in to pack up their rooms. The percentage was much higher than our administration predicted. Now, they are reopening slots this week and trying to cajole people into coming in. It doesn’t help that they promised everyone would be temperature checked at the door, but in our group texts, no one was. Letting someone else pack your room seems like just as viable a choice as letting someone else get your groceries. Do InstaCart and Peapod users not represent most parents trying to feed their kids?