Anonymous wrote:Look, even without option schools, some schools would still be above 50 FRL. Randolph, Barcroft and Carlin Springs simply do not have enough middle class SFHs in their boundaries to make much of a difference. Maybe go from 80-60FRL, but is that much better.

And Campbell is an option school at about 60% FRL. It went down to 50% for one year when an additional class was added, but it will never be much less than 60% because it has many VPI classrooms who are guaranteed admission in K.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d like to see 3 maps: Immersion moved to ATS, Carlin Springs and Barcroft. In the Immersion to ATS, move ATS to Barcrft and let’s see that map.

I'm still not getting how everyone cries "walkability" and you can't put a program in a highly walkable neighborhood school because we should be maximizing walkers and minimizing transportation costs, etc.; yet people keep pushing the idea of an option program at Barcroft - one of the most walkable schools.

Hypocrites.

Barcroft has a crazy high transfer rate without having any historical neighborhood preference or other weirdness that I know about other than being in the old Campbell attendance zone. I don't think it's an ideal option school location, but when 299 out of 679 (44%) in the attendance zone are opting out, perhaps it should be considered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure: I think option schools should go away. I feel like they are a relic of the past and don't make sense with our current enrollment issues.

I don't think option schools should ever get new buildings (I'm looking at you, HB). They should be the ones that rely on older facilities and trailers b/c the families who send their kids there had a choice.

IF we have to have option schools, they should also be in areas with the lowest enrollment, assuming there are other schools nearby that can pick up the slack. Building capacity matters, but total student body size has a significant impact on the school. Since neighborhood schools can't turn people away, they should, unfortunately, be the ones with greatest capacity (all those 700+ seat schools).

Again, I think option schools should go away, but I realize that argument is never going to get me anywhere.

+1 I'm with you actually. Option schools are a relic of APS being a rich system. They are a luxury good. The only benefit I see to them is helping to spread demographics, but they would need to be done intentionally, which it's not. Right now they are mainly an escape valve for parents to avoid certain schools -- both schools that are too rich and schools that are too poor.

I think we need to start at the middle school level and create balanced schools with good demographics. Then we create feeder patterns of elem. schools into those middle schools. You can't get each elem. school balanced, but we can try to do somewhat better. Then we give the poorer schools extra resources. At the same time, we pay a lot of attention to county housing policies and put a stop to building affordable housing in the areas that already have poor schools. That's the best solution I can think of, and it doesn't matter, because we still won't do anything.

Let me guess; you’re zoned one of the handful of integrated neighborhood schools. Not too rich, not too poor. Good for you. Too bad you would deny everyone that “luxury”.

Right. Because it's worth it to have option schools that we can no longer afford, that mess up all the neighborhood boundaries with all the high opt out rates, that increase our transportation costs, and that in many ways mask our underlying problems or let people ignore them, so that the most motivated parents who know how to play the system, can buy a house in a neighborhood where they wouldn't want their kid to go to school.

It's nice that ATS is a nice mix, but what is the cost to Drew, Randolph, Barcroft of letting many of the UMC opt out of those schools?

But like I said it doesn't matter because APS doesn't care about any of this.

You seem to be under the impression that absent option schools, UMC families would be “forced” to attend high poverty schools that are organized around providing social services and would therefore balance the poverty rate. The reality is that all schools are choice schools and many people will move or go private if the option schools weren’t around anymore. Just look at Alexandria if you doubt me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure: I think option schools should go away. I feel like they are a relic of the past and don't make sense with our current enrollment issues.

I don't think option schools should ever get new buildings (I'm looking at you, HB). They should be the ones that rely on older facilities and trailers b/c the families who send their kids there had a choice.

IF we have to have option schools, they should also be in areas with the lowest enrollment, assuming there are other schools nearby that can pick up the slack. Building capacity matters, but total student body size has a significant impact on the school. Since neighborhood schools can't turn people away, they should, unfortunately, be the ones with greatest capacity (all those 700+ seat schools).

Again, I think option schools should go away, but I realize that argument is never going to get me anywhere.

+1 I'm with you actually. Option schools are a relic of APS being a rich system. They are a luxury good. The only benefit I see to them is helping to spread demographics, but they would need to be done intentionally, which it's not. Right now they are mainly an escape valve for parents to avoid certain schools -- both schools that are too rich and schools that are too poor.

I think we need to start at the middle school level and create balanced schools with good demographics. Then we create feeder patterns of elem. schools into those middle schools. You can't get each elem. school balanced, but we can try to do somewhat better. Then we give the poorer schools extra resources. At the same time, we pay a lot of attention to county housing policies and put a stop to building affordable housing in the areas that already have poor schools. That's the best solution I can think of, and it doesn't matter, because we still won't do anything.

Let me guess; you’re zoned one of the handful of integrated neighborhood schools. Not too rich, not too poor. Good for you. Too bad you would deny everyone that “luxury”.

Right. Because it's worth it to have option schools that we can no longer afford, that mess up all the neighborhood boundaries with all the high opt out rates, that increase our transportation costs, and that in many ways mask our underlying problems or let people ignore them, so that the most motivated parents who know how to play the system, can buy a house in a neighborhood where they wouldn't want their kid to go to school.

It's nice that ATS is a nice mix, but what is the cost to Drew, Randolph, Barcroft of letting many of the UMC opt out of those schools?

But like I said it doesn't matter because APS doesn't care about any of this.

You seem to be under the impression that absent option schools, UMC families would be “forced” to attend high poverty schools that are organized around providing social services and would therefore balance the poverty rate. The reality is that all schools are choice schools and many people will move or go private if the option schools weren’t around anymore. Just look at Alexandria if you doubt me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure: I think option schools should go away. I feel like they are a relic of the past and don't make sense with our current enrollment issues.

I don't think option schools should ever get new buildings (I'm looking at you, HB). They should be the ones that rely on older facilities and trailers b/c the families who send their kids there had a choice.

IF we have to have option schools, they should also be in areas with the lowest enrollment, assuming there are other schools nearby that can pick up the slack. Building capacity matters, but total student body size has a significant impact on the school. Since neighborhood schools can't turn people away, they should, unfortunately, be the ones with greatest capacity (all those 700+ seat schools).

Again, I think option schools should go away, but I realize that argument is never going to get me anywhere.

+1 I'm with you actually. Option schools are a relic of APS being a rich system. They are a luxury good. The only benefit I see to them is helping to spread demographics, but they would need to be done intentionally, which it's not. Right now they are mainly an escape valve for parents to avoid certain schools -- both schools that are too rich and schools that are too poor.

I think we need to start at the middle school level and create balanced schools with good demographics. Then we create feeder patterns of elem. schools into those middle schools. You can't get each elem. school balanced, but we can try to do somewhat better. Then we give the poorer schools extra resources. At the same time, we pay a lot of attention to county housing policies and put a stop to building affordable housing in the areas that already have poor schools. That's the best solution I can think of, and it doesn't matter, because we still won't do anything.

Let me guess; you’re zoned one of the handful of integrated neighborhood schools. Not too rich, not too poor. Good for you. Too bad you would deny everyone that “luxury”.

Right. Because it's worth it to have option schools that we can no longer afford, that mess up all the neighborhood boundaries with all the high opt out rates, that increase our transportation costs, and that in many ways mask our underlying problems or let people ignore them, so that the most motivated parents who know how to play the system, can buy a house in a neighborhood where they wouldn't want their kid to go to school.

It's nice that ATS is a nice mix, but what is the cost to Drew, Randolph, Barcroft of letting many of the UMC opt out of those schools?

But like I said it doesn't matter because APS doesn't care about any of this.

Anonymous wrote:So how are option schools not a luxury good then? We are basically paying for public schools for kids who would otherwise go private. That's not a good use of taxpayer dollars.

Personally, I think some of them would stay and pressure APS to fix the demographic mess it has. It ain't perfect. But it might help some.

To the people arguing that the options schools have the best mix, yes, that's true, they tend to be good yes. But they make the problems worse at the neighborhood schools. So is it worth it? Plus they cost more. I just don't see how we can afford them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure: I think option schools should go away. I feel like they are a relic of the past and don't make sense with our current enrollment issues.

I don't think option schools should ever get new buildings (I'm looking at you, HB). They should be the ones that rely on older facilities and trailers b/c the families who send their kids there had a choice.

IF we have to have option schools, they should also be in areas with the lowest enrollment, assuming there are other schools nearby that can pick up the slack. Building capacity matters, but total student body size has a significant impact on the school. Since neighborhood schools can't turn people away, they should, unfortunately, be the ones with greatest capacity (all those 700+ seat schools).

Again, I think option schools should go away, but I realize that argument is never going to get me anywhere.

+1 I'm with you actually. Option schools are a relic of APS being a rich system. They are a luxury good. The only benefit I see to them is helping to spread demographics, but they would need to be done intentionally, which it's not. Right now they are mainly an escape valve for parents to avoid certain schools -- both schools that are too rich and schools that are too poor.

I think we need to start at the middle school level and create balanced schools with good demographics. Then we create feeder patterns of elem. schools into those middle schools. You can't get each elem. school balanced, but we can try to do somewhat better. Then we give the poorer schools extra resources. At the same time, we pay a lot of attention to county housing policies and put a stop to building affordable housing in the areas that already have poor schools. That's the best solution I can think of, and it doesn't matter, because we still won't do anything.

Let me guess; you’re zoned one of the handful of integrated neighborhood schools. Not too rich, not too poor. Good for you. Too bad you would deny everyone that “luxury”.

Right. Because it's worth it to have option schools that we can no longer afford, that mess up all the neighborhood boundaries with all the high opt out rates, that increase our transportation costs, and that in many ways mask our underlying problems or let people ignore them, so that the most motivated parents who know how to play the system, can buy a house in a neighborhood where they wouldn't want their kid to go to school.

It's nice that ATS is a nice mix, but what is the cost to Drew, Randolph, Barcroft of letting many of the UMC opt out of those schools?

But like I said it doesn't matter because APS doesn't care about any of this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure: I think option schools should go away. I feel like they are a relic of the past and don't make sense with our current enrollment issues.

I don't think option schools should ever get new buildings (I'm looking at you, HB). They should be the ones that rely on older facilities and trailers b/c the families who send their kids there had a choice.

IF we have to have option schools, they should also be in areas with the lowest enrollment, assuming there are other schools nearby that can pick up the slack. Building capacity matters, but total student body size has a significant impact on the school. Since neighborhood schools can't turn people away, they should, unfortunately, be the ones with greatest capacity (all those 700+ seat schools).

Again, I think option schools should go away, but I realize that argument is never going to get me anywhere.

+1 I'm with you actually. Option schools are a relic of APS being a rich system. They are a luxury good. The only benefit I see to them is helping to spread demographics, but they would need to be done intentionally, which it's not. Right now they are mainly an escape valve for parents to avoid certain schools -- both schools that are too rich and schools that are too poor.

I think we need to start at the middle school level and create balanced schools with good demographics. Then we create feeder patterns of elem. schools into those middle schools. You can't get each elem. school balanced, but we can try to do somewhat better. Then we give the poorer schools extra resources. At the same time, we pay a lot of attention to county housing policies and put a stop to building affordable housing in the areas that already have poor schools. That's the best solution I can think of, and it doesn't matter, because we still won't do anything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure: I think option schools should go away. I feel like they are a relic of the past and don't make sense with our current enrollment issues.

I don't think option schools should ever get new buildings (I'm looking at you, HB). They should be the ones that rely on older facilities and trailers b/c the families who send their kids there had a choice.

IF we have to have option schools, they should also be in areas with the lowest enrollment, assuming there are other schools nearby that can pick up the slack. Building capacity matters, but total student body size has a significant impact on the school. Since neighborhood schools can't turn people away, they should, unfortunately, be the ones with greatest capacity (all those 700+ seat schools).

Again, I think option schools should go away, but I realize that argument is never going to get me anywhere.

+1 I'm with you actually. Option schools are a relic of APS being a rich system. They are a luxury good. The only benefit I see to them is helping to spread demographics, but they would need to be done intentionally, which it's not. Right now they are mainly an escape valve for parents to avoid certain schools -- both schools that are too rich and schools that are too poor.

I think we need to start at the middle school level and create balanced schools with good demographics. Then we create feeder patterns of elem. schools into those middle schools. You can't get each elem. school balanced, but we can try to do somewhat better. Then we give the poorer schools extra resources. At the same time, we pay a lot of attention to county housing policies and put a stop to building affordable housing in the areas that already have poor schools. That's the best solution I can think of, and it doesn't matter, because we still won't do anything.

Let me guess; you’re zoned one of the handful of integrated neighborhood schools. Not too rich, not too poor. Good for you. Too bad you would deny everyone that “luxury”.

Anonymous wrote:You can have successful immersion without 50% native speakers. Yes, it'd be nice if they could fill more of the native Spanish speaker spots, but APS is in a tricky position with that. They can't basically push one option school to a certain segment of the population without getting into some very tricky waters.

If we have ANY option schools, they should be language immersion. Which is a real skill that kids carry with them their whole lives. I understand the other options have wonderful programs, but if we are cutting options, the one that provides a track through high school to become a life long skill should not be at the top of the list.

But I do agree the boundaries for the neighborhood schools should be done first, then figure out the best spots for the option schools. I realize they won't do this because they don't want to move all the choice schools, but it would be one way to balance things county wide.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full disclosure: I think option schools should go away. I feel like they are a relic of the past and don't make sense with our current enrollment issues.

I don't think option schools should ever get new buildings (I'm looking at you, HB). They should be the ones that rely on older facilities and trailers b/c the families who send their kids there had a choice.

IF we have to have option schools, they should also be in areas with the lowest enrollment, assuming there are other schools nearby that can pick up the slack. Building capacity matters, but total student body size has a significant impact on the school. Since neighborhood schools can't turn people away, they should, unfortunately, be the ones with greatest capacity (all those 700+ seat schools).

Again, I think option schools should go away, but I realize that argument is never going to get me anywhere.

+1 I'm with you actually. Option schools are a relic of APS being a rich system. They are a luxury good. The only benefit I see to them is helping to spread demographics, but they would need to be done intentionally, which it's not. Right now they are mainly an escape valve for parents to avoid certain schools -- both schools that are too rich and schools that are too poor.

I think we need to start at the middle school level and create balanced schools with good demographics. Then we create feeder patterns of elem. schools into those middle schools. You can't get each elem. school balanced, but we can try to do somewhat better. Then we give the poorer schools extra resources. At the same time, we pay a lot of attention to county housing policies and put a stop to building affordable housing in the areas that already have poor schools. That's the best solution I can think of, and it doesn't matter, because we still won't do anything.